i'm new to handguns and need a bit help.
i want a gun/cartridge to do this:

* protection against bears
* self defense
* small enough for consealed carry
* be suitable as a beginners gun

(i know this doesn't have anything to do with hunting, but bear protection will be a important part of the gun's tasks.
and i want opinions of people who have actually killing experience with handguns and bears).

when i say beginners gun, i will have about 12-20 visits at the range before i buy the gun.

can a 9mm, .40S&W or .45ACP be trusted for these tasks, or do i need more than one handgun?

Sorry Steffen, but IMHO most of your requirements are contradictory unless you make huge compromises, in which case you may not meet ANY of your requirements.
Protection against bears generally needs a 45 Colt or 44 mag. These are generally revolvers and, unless you are in the Arctic, cannot be carried concealed.
Self defense: most folks in the states use at least a 9mm., 38 Special, 357 mag or 40 S&W. Some diehards who think that John Browning is the second coming, carry a 45acp! These are NOT regarded as adequate for protection against bears.
These can be obtained in package small enough to carry concealed.
Generally folks are encouraged to start with a 22LR. If you are very familiar with firearms, you could certainly start with a 9mm, say.
Others wil undoubtably weigh in.
Peter.

Steffen:

The problem is your goals are ALMOST incompatible with one handgun and IMO they ARE incompatible with a beginner and ONE handgun unless that is the only possible option. Before I go much farther, I want to point out that a pistol is NOT a good choice for bear protection unless you are a really accomplished shot, a rifle is MUCH better but I'm answering your question.

If you really want protection against bears, something on the order of a .41 to .44 Magnum or a hot .45 Colt would be the minimum IMO, and bullet choice would be critical as well. While there are shorter barreled choices (which is what you need for concealed carry) in these guns (and even the .500 Mag), the shooter pays a heavy price in recoil and sound. That takes it off the table for a beginner to learn with IMO unless you are prepared to reload some very low velocity rounds to learn with and LOTS of them.

If you really have to conceal it while needing it for protection against bears, then you'll almost have to go with a short barreled large caliber revolver.

To repeat, this is NOT a good or even a reasonable choice for a begining pistol shooter. Anything can be done, but what you need is a minimum of two guns, 3 might even be better. If limited to two, I'd get a 9mm or a .38/357 for learning and concealed carry.....I much prefer a .45 or .40 S&W in that order.....but for starting gun, go with the one which has the least recoil, the least expensive and easily available bullets and still will be adequate (barely) for personal protection. The second gun would be one for the bears and the cheapest way out would probably be a Ruger Super Blackhawk or a Smith or a Taurus (not my choice, just mentioning it). Freedom Arms makes some fine revolvers as well, but they cost quite a bit more. Ruger Redhawks can be made fairly concealable but they are on the large side.

Thinking further and back to the learning, if you're going to shot a revolver for bears, then I'd suggest you learn with a revolver for personal defense since you are not familiar with pistols and learning with the same action type for both situations would be helpful. My personal choices for self defense are in the 1911 or Glock category and lean towards .45 or .40s but a Smith and Wesson revolver in .38/.257 is certainly a viable option and you would be shooting and learning with the same type action as for bears.

Finally, if you can afford it, get a .22 revolver to learn with in nearly the same size and type as your concealed carry personal protection gun but I'd suggest a longer barrel. A Ruger Single Six is a good option, or Smith k-22. Good luck and stay away from mad bears.

well not knowing how much handgun experieence if a little the first should always be a 22lr.

To do what you say you want you will end up with 3 handguns first the 22 then the packable i always recomend 357 mag do to you can shoot the lighter 38 specials to get more proficient with the handgun but if you are a pistol guy you will want atleast a 9mm and must suffest the 45acp

Now as far as bear protection you need atleast 41 mag and most common 44 mag Hopefully you have a shop near where you can shoot them first try them and of course there are bigger then 44 mag

If you go for the compromise, you won't be doing anything wrong buying a smith 66 4". You could practice using wad cutters, it's quite concealable, perfect for self-defence but not really a bear caliber ... altouhg MUCH better than no gun at all or worse ... a big revolver you can't handle!!!

If you feel undergunned, you can still buy a .44 or bigger later on.

Steffen -- as has been pointed out, you have some contradictory requirements here. That said, the Ruger Alaskan wouldn't be a bad choice as they are packable, but as pointed out above, short barrelled revolvers kick and make a lot of noise. The Alaskan is now available in .44 magnum and .454 Casull -- neither are calibers for beginners, but .44 specials and .45 Colts can be substituted for orientation and you can step up to full .44 mag and .454 Casull loads when you are ready. The Alaskan was also made available in .480 Ruger which is a fantastic round that is not too abusive (to the shooter!).

thanks for the replys guys.

my original plan was to buy a S&W629 4"barreled .44mag for bear protection and a compact or subcompact Glock chambered for 9mm or .40S&W for everything else.
thoughts, comments?

since we dont got the privilege of just walking in to a store and buying a handgun, i'll have to be a active member of a shooting club for 6 months where i will be trained(mostly with .22) before i could buy the guns.

Sounds like a good plan.

Learn to shoot the .44 with .44 Special cartridges. Not cheap, but very soft shooting. Once you have concentration and confidence, you'll be ready to shoot full-power .44 Mzagnums out of it, as 4" .44's do kick!

Steffen:

Sounds good to me. As I said, as long as you practice and are comfortable with your choices those cartridge selections should be fine. Be sure to choose a heavy penetrating buller for actual carry for bears in the .44 mag and for carry a good anti-personnel round for the 9......NOT a military FMJ.

I'm not sure of what you do or what activity you're planning but based on the minuscule amount I know about Norway and its culture, I'd think you have a much greater chance of having to use the .44 to shoot a bear than using the 9mm for personal protection. Over here, it would be vastly weighted in the other direction unless you fish on Alaskan streams all the time.

The first thing that comes to mind is a .460 Rowland conversion on 1911.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Steffen:

I'm not sure of what you do or what activity you're planning but based on the minuscule amount I know about Norway and its culture, I'd think you have a much greater chance of having to use the .44 to shoot a bear than using the 9mm for personal protection. Over here, it would be vastly weighted in the other direction unless you fish on Alaskan streams all the time.

you're sure right about that, but ever since i had to beat up a burglar in my livingroom i have wanted a "drawer gun"
i won't be carrying it concealed out in public since that would be a serious violation of our gunlaw, and i probably would loose all of my guns(with other words i couldn't hunt) if i got caught.

it sounds like your on track i like the idea of shooting the 22 for a few months first it can help you develope proper shooting skills where the bigger cartridges actually help create bad habits if you shoot them first

when you get a chance this link to a ken howell article written about hangun shooting is a good read

Revolvers Make Riflemen

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
it sounds like your on track i like the idea of shooting the 22 for a few months first it can help you develope proper shooting skills where the bigger cartridges actually help create bad habits if you shoot them first

when you get a chance this link to a ken howell article written about hangun shooting is a good read

Revolvers Make Riflemen

Oh so true........it's easy to develop bad habits by starting off with too large a caliber revolver.

I would recommend a good med frame 357 not ideal for bears but will work. Plus it will all the other jobs just fine.

Have to go with the suggestion of some form of 22. caliber for a first handgun. Once you become proficient then move up to something more powerful.
Here is another vote for the .460 Rowland. my very small wife enjoys her Rowland and carries it in a front draw shoulder holster with ease.

338

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3:
i'm new to handguns and need a bit help.
i want a gun/cartridge to do this:

* protection against bears
* self defense
* small enough for consealed carry
* be suitable as a beginners gun

(i know this doesn't have anything to do with hunting, but bear protection will be a important part of the gun's tasks.
and i want opinions of people who have actually killing experience with handguns and bears).

when i say beginners gun, i will have about 12-20 visits at the range before i buy the gun.

can a 9mm, .40S&W or .45ACP be trusted for these tasks, or do i need more than one handgun?

A Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" barrel in 45 long colt which can be loaded down for comfortable shooting(cowboy loads) or loaded up for bear protection.I have a 4 5/8 inch barreled Ruger BH convertible with 2 cylinders:45acp & 45 long colt that I shoot the 45 colt can be safely loaded & will exceed a 44 mag with less recoil,here's 2 sources of ammo for 45 colt www.grizzlycartridge.com & www.buffalobore.com sold at www.midwayusa.com & www.cabelas.com. I have a friend with a Ruger BH 4 5/8" barrel with Hogue rubber grips who killed a running cow elk with a Buffalo Bore Cartridge 300gr Speer JFP 1325fps with ME 1170ft.lbs suitable for game up to 1000 pounds, hit her in the head at 65 yards. www.gunblast.com has some data on 45 colt loading

quote:

Originally posted by Steffen-9.3:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Steffen:

I'm not sure of what you do or what activity you're planning but based on the minuscule amount I know about Norway and its culture, I'd think you have a much greater chance of having to use the .44 to shoot a bear than using the 9mm for personal protection. Over here, it would be vastly weighted in the other direction unless you fish on Alaskan streams all the time.

you're sure right about that, but ever since i had to beat up a burglar in my livingroom i have wanted a "drawer gun"
i won't be carrying it concealed out in public since that would be a serious violation of our gunlaw, and i probably would loose all of my guns(with other words i couldn't hunt) if i got caught.

I know this is not a pistol or a drawer gun. I tell all of my friends IMHO that a pump 12ga makes the best house defense gun the sound of a 12ga shell being chambered is a BIG deterrent for a burglar IF you are home.

On the plus side it won’t shoot through your house and the neighbors killing someone. Just something to think about.

Glock 20 10mm

Perry

Steffen, you asked about concealed carry in your original post, but then, later, stated that you could not do this in public. If so, why worry about concealed carry? If your laws are fairly restrictive, I would worry about the consequences of shooting a burgular in your own home. Have there been such instances and, if so, what happened. I see nothing wrong with walking around your own house with a holstered 44mag. Without knowing too much about Norway, I, like an earlier poster, would think that your risk of armed assault would be much less than in the USA.
Peter.