Which primers have you experimented with both of these cartridges and which have you come to rely upon?

I now use magnum primers, CCI 350 magnum pistol primers. I started out using regular primers as I read somewhere that was what Linebaugh used, but these seem to give very consistent ignition and excellent groups. This is for my 475 Linebaugh.
Peter.

Which powders do you use with which primers? Any problems in cold weather?

I was useing CCI sm rifle primers in my 454 with WC820 and didn't have any problems until it got cold. I had one round that drove the powder and bullet partway into the forcing cone, but did not ignite the powder. I switched to sm rifle mag primers and the problem went away. This was with 350's at 1350.

Lar, you have not read all I posted. I use the Fed 155 for the .475 and .500's.
The SR mag primer has failed in the .454 with starting loads of 296 or in cold.
I cut pockets for the LP mag primer and solved it, all from starting loads up. Better accuracy too. You can cut down .460 brass too.
The .454 should NOT have a SR primer.
This is the cutter I made.

I use the SR mag primers in temps down into the teens with very good ignition. FA developed load data with SR primers; I don't care what some people say regarding the suitability of SR primers in the .454 cartridges.

DO NOT use rifle primers in the Linebaugh cartridges. Call Lineabugh and discuss it with him; but don't be led astray.

I think that I like shooting more moderate loads now instead of looking for flat primers.
I have pushed 405's to 1750fps out of my 45-70 BFR, I could keep 5 shots inside 1.5" at 50yds, but they were not fun to shoot.

I use CCI 350 primers in the .475 Linebaugh (with H-110), and after testing a number of primers, settled on Fed. 210's in the .500 Wyoming Express (with both H-110 and 2400). The WE is in the same performance ballpark as the JRH, but I don't own a JRH, and cannot make a recommendation for it.

quote:

Posted 25 May 2011 08:33 Hide Post
I think that I like shooting more moderate loads now instead of looking for flat primers.
I have pushed 405's to 1750fps out of my 45-70 BFR, I could keep 5 shots inside 1.5" at 50yds, but they were not fun to shoot.


Lar45

Too fast! I also use the Fed 155 in the 45-70 BFR.

quote:

I use CCI 350 primers in the .475 Linebaugh (with H-110), and after testing a number of primers, settled on Fed. 210's in the .500 Wyoming Express (with both H-110 and 2400). The WE is in the same performance ballpark as the JRH, but I don't own a JRH, and cannot make a recommendation for it.

Very first load session with a brand new .500 JRH, BFR using Fed 155 primers. 296 powder. Your rifle primer has too much pressure for the WE.

By the way, that was 50 yards with a boolit I designed and made the mold for. It weighs 437 gr.

I have tried over and over to tell what primers do. Pressure and heat differences. What happens to a boolit in brass to no avail. How powder ignites and how case capacity changes with the wrong powder and primer mix.
The .454 is the very worst because only max loads of 296 or H110 will ignite with the SR primer. Just how much load work does that leave? ZERO! One load for a gun is 100% silly.
Read every single thing about loads for the .44 mag and every single one will call for a mag primer just because it is named a .44 MAGNUM---NO OTHER REASON. The small case does not work with the primer pressure and does better with mild pressure and heat at the powder. Actually, if there was a primer with zero pressure and tons of fire, accuracy would improve.

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Read every single thing about loads for the .44 mag and every single one will call for a mag primer just because it is named a .44 MAGNUM---NO OTHER REASON.

Oh????!!! My Lyman Reloading Handbook, 45th Edition, page 177 say" Primer Size.... Large Pistol; Primers..... Remington 2 1/2.
Keep 'em coming!
Peter.

Everything I load in my FA .454 ignites with a SR primer; mild to wild. I don't have the troubles you are Jim,

Uh oh, I'm smellin' blanket statements......

The #2 Edition of Accurate Arms Reloading Manual lists 19 different bullets and 68 different loads for the 44 Magnum, every one of them developed using the CCI-300 standard Large Pistol primer...

It is my understanding that magnum primers are typically used in large capacity cases with corresponding large powder charges, for cold conditions, or with slow burning powders, which have a heavier coating of material (typically graphite) to slow the burn rate, as well as other chemical deterrents on the surface of the powder granules.

Flame suit on, BFR... go ahead!

Damnit Jim!

quote:

Damnit Jim!

Memory like an elephant...

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Posted 25 May 2011 21:07 Hide Post
Everything I load in my FA .454 ignites with a SR primer; mild to wild. I don't have the troubles you are Jim,

What powder? It will not be H110 or 296.
2400 or faster powders will light off.

quote:

The #2 Edition of Accurate Arms Reloading Manual lists 19 different bullets and 68 different loads for the 44 Magnum, every one of them developed using the CCI-300 standard Large Pistol primer...

Every book I have shows a LP mag primer for every load. Every rag tells the same thing.
I have no new load info because I do not need it.
Why does Fed load the .44 with a standard primer?
Do you suppose they have read my results or finally got smart?
I have used a standard primer in the .44 since 1957.
Sorry but I have no load data that shows a standard primer, maybe I am too old and my books are too.

You may be good, but the day the powder manufacturers and primer suppliers start reading your stuff is the day I get off AR! Sorry; just not going to happen.

It is quite simple, Jim: it is like I said. Primer selection is based on powder and environmental considerations. Period. I am sure you know that the Federal 215 magnum rifle primer was specifically developed to ignite IMR 7828. Same goes for some of the other applications.

Oh, and if you were to read about Accurate Powders, they are designed specifically to be ignited with standard primers. I know of one exception to that: Accurate 8700, which burns only slightly faster than torn up telephone books!

quote:

You may be good, but the day the powder manufacturers and primer suppliers start reading your stuff is the day I get off AR! Sorry; just not going to happen.

It is quite simple, Jim: it is like I said. Primer selection is based on powder and environmental considerations. Period. I am sure you know that the Federal 215 magnum rifle primer was specifically developed to ignite IMR 7828. Same goes for some of the other applications.

Oh, and if you were to read about Accurate Powders, they are designed specifically to be ignited with standard primers. I know of one exception to that: Accurate 8700, which burns only slightly faster than torn up telephone books!

That is not true. The 215 primer was designed specifically for the Weatherby line of cartridges back when Roy was developing them. That would put the 215's age around the early 60's. 7828 is a recent canister powder.
I do not use accurate powders, can't even find them around here.I have some a friend gave me and was not impressed. I do not buy it.
You might be right with their primer selection.
I am sorry, but every single .44 load that uses 296 or H110 will list a mag primer and years ago, so did loads for ALL OTHER POWDERS. Most load info still calls for a mag primer. It depends on your book, Speer just listed both primers but never said which to use where.
Now Lyman cast boolit loads call for standard but I have no loads for slow powders beyond 2400 that does not work good with a mag primer.
Read every post and you will see all say that you need a mag primer in the .44 with H110 and 296.
I like the 215 primer thing! Like Elmer said "Hell, I was there."

I can't put my hands on where I read it, so I will take your word for it. I know that 7828 was available to commercial manufacturers prior to it being available to the handloader, and that happened about 1985.

And I would be very surprised if you shot Accurate #9 and didn't like it. Being the heavy bullet aficionado that you are, I figured you would like it. My experience with it is that it actually acts more like H110 when loaded behind a heavy bullet.

A question: how far back is "years ago"? My Gun Digest Book of Handgun Reloading, Copyrighted 1987 and written by two guys named Dean Grinnell and Wiley Clapp, list AA#9, IMR-4227, Winchester 296, H-110, The original 2400, and Blue Dot in their 44 magnum loads; Federal brass and Federal 155 primers...

wow, every load i've ever worked up has ignited just fine, every factory load i used has had no probs to ignite in down to 20 below weather. so far my 454 is supposed to be inaccurate but i get sub 1" groups at one hundred with mine with some loads and now i should be having ignition probs. ????????????????????????????

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
wow, every load i've ever worked up has ignited just fine, every factory load i used has had no probs to ignite in down to 20 below weather. so far my 454 is supposed to be inaccurate but i get sub 1" groups at one hundred with mine with some loads and now i should be having ignition probs. ????????????????????????????

It's obviously a piece of crap, so you should send it to me......

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It's obviously a piece of crap, so you should send it to me......

I am just dying to hear it is an FA... Probably a custom gun, but maybe, just maybe...

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Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

It's obviously a piece of crap, so you should send it to me......

I am just dying to hear it is an FA... Probably a custom gun, but maybe, just maybe...

It is. That's why it's a piece of crap and he should send it to me. I will take all of those crappy FAs off of everyone's hands. Is anyone buying into my BS?

I ain't buyin', Marko... my two: a 654 Silhouette in 41 Mag, and my Model83 in 454, are staying right here in TX. Both of them have proven to be far more accurate than I am!

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Originally posted by Doubless:
I ain't buyin', Marko... my two: a 654 Silhouette in 41 Mag, and my Model83 in 454, are staying right here in TX. Both of them have proven to be far more accurate than I am!

Can't fault me for tryin'!

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A question: how far back is "years ago"? My Gun Digest Book of Handgun Reloading, Copyrighted 1987 and written by two guys named Dean Grinnell and Wiley Clapp, list AA#9, IMR-4227, Winchester 296, H-110, The original 2400, and Blue Dot in their 44 magnum loads; Federal brass and Federal 155 primers...

Yep, you are correct!
But the Fed 155 is a MAGNUM PRIMER!
Back in 1956 with my first .44, every single load called for a mag primer with info I had back then.

Okay, okay, okay... I was two years old in 1956, and I don't use Federal primers, so I don't know their numbering scheme.

I reamed out the primer pockets in my 32 H & R mag to accept large Rifle magnum.That way I don`t even need powder!!!!

Biker, how is that working out so far? How bad is the flame cutting!!?

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I use the SR mag primers in temps down into the teens with very good ignition. FA developed load data with SR primers; I don't care what some people say regarding the suitability of SR primers in the .454 cartridges.

DO NOT use rifle primers in the Linebaugh cartridges. Call Lineabugh and discuss it with him; but don't be led astray.

Spot on and very sound advice

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
wow, every load i've ever worked up has ignited just fine, every factory load i used has had no probs to ignite in down to 20 below weather. so far my 454 is supposed to be inaccurate but i get sub 1" groups at one hundred with mine with some loads and now i should be having ignition probs. ????????????????????????????

The 454 FA's are only inaccurate for one person in the world. For every one else there shoot just fine, I know mine do

SR primers work just fine in the 454

Ask Whit what I had to do with starting loads of 296 in the .454. "Hell, HE WAS THERE!"
Brass rod and hammer plus trials with all other primers. Only max or right near max would light every time---yeah, some did fire, but not all.
Just have fun by loading starting loads of H110 or 296, then go out and shoot as fast as you can cock and fire. Better yet get a double action and really rip through shots so you miss the stuck boolit in the bore.
However I failed to realize that most of you are using jacketed bullets, one of those 1/8" profile crimps, no lube between brass and boolit.
Is there a difference? Well, I guess! More friction and resistance to primer pressure.
JWP, you have not admitted to using starting loads of 296 with cast, just that all fire fine. Just what are you loading? You are dancing because you will never admit I might have a good point and want to prevent a safety issue that you ignore.
Come clean and tell the new .454 owner that it is fine to use every listed load of 296 or H110 with a cast boolit. How about poor case tension and not enough crimp with jacketed, would that be a problem?
I sure as heck will not!

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Ask Whit what I had to do with starting loads of 296 in the .454. "Hell, HE WAS THERE!"
Brass rod and hammer plus trials with all other primers. Only max or right near max would light every time---yeah, some did fire, but not all.
Just have fun by loading starting loads of H110 or 296, then go out and shoot as fast as you can cock and fire. Better yet get a double action and really rip through shots so you miss the stuck boolit in the bore.
However I failed to realize that most of you are using jacketed bullets, one of those 1/8" profile crimps, no lube between brass and boolit.
Is there a difference? Well, I guess! More friction and resistance to primer pressure.
JWP, you have not admitted to using starting loads of 296 with cast, just that all fire fine. Just what are you loading? You are dancing because you will never admit I might have a good point and want to prevent a safety issue that you ignore.
Come clean and tell the new .454 owner that it is fine to use every listed load of 296 or H110 with a cast boolit. How about poor case tension and not enough crimp with jacketed, would that be a problem?
I sure as heck will not!

Anyone with half the experience you claim, knows one usually loads toward the heavy end of 296/H110 loads. Your statements above just show you are looking to stir the pot AGAIN. Higher loading density is crucial to these powders performing properly. This is nothing new; why do you insist on beating this dead horse AGAIN?

However, to answer your next point; FA lists a 3.0 grain spread from min to max on their WW296 and H110 loads. The problems you are claiming happened tend to make me believe were caused by operator error and being passed off as someone else's fault, AGAIN.

I took a FA loaded with 35.0 of WW296 (1.0 above min.) behind a 260 FA bullet and a SR mag primer. This load is as close to max as I want in a revolver in the heat of summer. I had no problems with ignition and most everything I shot with the load fell down and died fairly quickly. The gemsbok must have been related to you considering just how ornery it behaved.

Considering this thread is for the benefit of new .454 owners, here's a tip; bell your case mouths with a .44 mag expander plug. This increases the neck tension on the bullet and goes much further toward consistent ignition than a crimp ever thought of being able to do.

Now, give it a rest Jim. No one is interested in your complaining.

I was not present when you were testing .454 loads, so I can neither confirm nor deny. Sorry.

Actually, I don't know how this got off into 454 territory seeing as how I asked about primers for the 475 Linebaugh and 500 JRH.

But carry on, anyway.

Landrum

Funny how that works!

Landrum, your confusion can be forgiven because of the number of posts you have. Actually, this is just par for the course! Any moment now we will launch into hollow points vs. flat points.
Peter.