I'm getting older, and, a bit wiser.
I know John Taffin has his arms pretty much messed up from shooting heavy recoiling handguns.

Anyone else know of someone that has happened to?

As a point of a guy that shot 500k-1000k of 180 grain .44 magnum loads, with no injury, I think of Lee Jurras.

At what point do the guns recoil too much for average humans, and, cause injury?

Any of the 475 to 50 caliber handgun cartridges loaded hot can and will damage the hand and wrist tendons/cartilage so care must be taken to limit your exposure. I use a pair of Uncle Mikes padded shooting gloves when shooting anything starting at 410GNR levels up to my 500 S&W. I never download any of my revolvers, even for practicing. I shoot what I hunt with. The damage is cumulative and won't be noticed over a short time period......but it will creep up on you. I wear the gloves to mitigate further damage to my right wrist. A lesson learned.

I wear shooting gloves as well. I even wear weight lifting gloves at times. Supports the wrist and I like the way they feel. I quit lifting weights and decided to put there gloves to good use.

The only problem I have noticed from extensive handgun shooing of big bore handguns is, rotation in my thumb on my shooting hand.

If you're regularly wearing wrist supports, you might want to get some Inzers. That's what we used to wear when I was powerlifting and in strongman -- they're pretty easy to get on and off, and have plenty of support.

One way to make it easier on the wrists is to shoot with arms slightly bent. Then when shooting the arms bend more , absorbing the shock instead of the wrists taking all the stress.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
One way to make it easier on the wrists is to shoot with arms slightly bent. Then when shooting the arms bend more , absorbing the shock instead of the wrists taking all the stress.

That is how I shoot, but the 500 mag still puts a beating on the wrist area.

I haven't heard of the 44 mag causing problems, but he 454, 475 and 500 have done damage to the wrists of folks that shoot them alot.

It's hard to say how much recoil is too much, as it's a compbination of the recoil, how often one shoots, how much one shoots, and ones physical condition. Not much different than other repetitive stress injuries.

Asside from planting the front sight in your forehead, a single shot isn't going to do it. The question is how many 100 rounds a year will do it. I think most folks find the recoil objectionable before they shoot enough to hurt themselves, others are just gluttons for punishment.

while i don't consider serious i have turned wrenches for years and being strong over used my power instead of getting a bigger tool or impact i muscled through it and now the conscience is i sometimes loose grip of whatever holding in my right hand and sometimes drop item in hand.which is my shooting hand however have yet to drop a gun from this.It happens more after turning wrenches.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I haven't heard of the 44 mag causing problems, but he 454, 475 and 500 have done damage to the wrists of folks that shoot them alot.

It's hard to say how much recoil is too much, as it's a compbination of the recoil, how often one shoots, how much one shoots, and ones physical condition. Not much different than other repetitive stress injuries.

Asside from planting the front sight in your forehead, a single shot isn't going to do it. The question is how many 100 rounds a year will do it. I think most folks find the recoil objectionable before they shoot enough to hurt themselves, others are just gluttons for punishment.

Just in my 500 Mag alone I have well over 6000 rounds fired in the past 8 years, not counting the 460 Mag, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger and all the others I have fired.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I haven't heard of the 44 mag causing problems, but he 454, 475 and 500 have done damage to the wrists of folks that shoot them alot.

It's hard to say how much recoil is too much, as it's a compbination of the recoil, how often one shoots, how much one shoots, and ones physical condition. Not much different than other repetitive stress injuries.

Asside from planting the front sight in your forehead, a single shot isn't going to do it. The question is how many 100 rounds a year will do it. I think most folks find the recoil objectionable before they shoot enough to hurt themselves, others are just gluttons for punishment.

I agree. Everyone has a different tollerance level. I believe that the damage is cumulative as well.

I do know one guy who has significant nerve damage in his hands from shooting the heavy recoilers.

I've always loved shooting hand cannons. Just over 10 years ago I was thrown off a horse and broke my radius in three places near my wrist. The arthritis seems to be getting worse in it (I'm only 38). I think the biggest pistol I dare go up to now without damage is the 480ruger.

I did shoot a 470n.e. encore handgun a couple years later. But that was probably a bad idea. As bad as my wrist acts up now I hate to think what it'll be like at 70.

quote:

As a point of a guy that shot 500k-1000k of 180 grain .44 magnum loads, with no injury, I think of Lee Jurras.

He's a regular contributor over on automagpistol.com. If anyone wants, you could probably ask him about this topic.

On what filmit said about early arthritis, I'm "living with Arthur" too only I'm in my mid 60s. Mine is in many ways related to a lifetime of hunting and shooting. And I too have had negatory experiences with horses. But anyway, I have good news for you. It's not all that bad later and whatever discomforts there are, are highly tempered by the memories of the lifetime spent doing what I really wanted...hunting and shooting. It was definitely worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:

quote:

As a point of a guy that shot 500k-1000k of 180 grain .44 magnum loads, with no injury, I think of Lee Jurras.

He's a regular contributor over on automagpistol.com. If anyone wants, you could probably ask him about this topic.

On what filmit said about early arthritis, I'm "living with Arthur" too only I'm in my mid 60s. Mine is in many ways related to a lifetime of hunting and shooting. And I too have had negatory experiences with horses. But anyway, I have good news for you. It's not all that bad later and whatever discomforts there are, are highly tempered by the memories of the lifetime spent doing what I really wanted...hunting and shooting. It was definitely worth it.

I had that email conversation with him. His secret was light, fast bullets, using the same weight, but changing the jacket thickness depending on what he was hunting. Some of his 'hollow points' had jackets so thick they were really solids. With his shot placement, it worked for him. He also lifted weights, and believed in the 'death grip' style of shooting, vs my own, which allows the gun to roll up more in recoil.

I've got wrist damage from pounding bags, and 20 years of martial arts, combined with shooting.

Still, it's not nearly as bad as I've seen.

Appears you can get to a point where the brain thinks you are shooting heavy guns all the time, and associates pain with that action. The result is near incapacitating pain, that occurs at anytime,
for past activities done, not present.
It's REALLY scary. No cure, either.

A good friend of mine has done sirious damage to his wrist from his many really bigbore revolvers. It can be said he will never fully recover and he can no longer shoot much of the revolvers and loads he once did.

I have cut back after seeing what has happend to him.

Just talked to a kid yesterday who said his arm was messed up for two months with nerve tendon/muscle damage caused by a full house 454.
His friend thought it would be 'cute' to put a full house round in, while he was shooting target loads. He was really holding tight, and, the
full house round tore up the muscle, and something else, on the outside of his forearm.

He got rid of the gun. Wish I'd been around for that part of it...

Most here probably know this but Winchester has a reduced 454 load that would be fine for deer - http://www.winchester.com/Prod...hp/Pages/X454C3.aspx. It's not without recoil but is more like what I shoot in Hornady or Cor-Bon factory 44. The 44s haven't done any damage so far in hunting (excepting to the critters that were supposed to get damaged) and in limited target use, although I don't try to do an extended diet of them. I personally draw the line in about that range of recoil.

This Winchester's an option for those who want to shoot the 454 but aren't up for the "full house" loads. If I had one that's probably what as a non-handloader I would do. The only reason I haven't is that I already have several .44s.

Let's face it, the .454 Casull is just an unpleasant round in most of the factory iterations that are available. I think of the .454 as the .378 Weatherby of the revolver world -- there are heavier kicking rounds out there, but this one never fails to be unpleasant. Thankfully, the handloader doesn't need to load 'em so damn hot.

I remember hearing or reading about someone who I think had the bones in his wrist fused so he could keep on doing this. I don't remember who it was but I think it was somebody fairly well known in big bore handgun circles. Does that ring a bell with anyone else? I guess that could be done..albeit kind of extreme sounding.

Ive had corpul(spelling) tunnel surgery on both wrists. dont know if it was totaly from shooting big bores but im sure it added to it. I also have had surgery twice on my right middle nuckle for bone spurs from the constant pounding it takes. It is permantly swelled to about twice normal size. Ive had to slow down some on the ammount of really heavy recoiling stuff i shoot because of it.

Originally posted by Whitworth

Let's face it, the .454 Casull is just an unpleasant round

Thats how I felt when I had my 4&3/4 FA .454. It was amazing how much an inch and a quarter made when I went to my 6" FA .454.

I can empathize, I think the 6" FA 454 is as light as I would want with a big bore handgun. It it quite a handful. After shooting it, full power, screw loosening, 44 mag loads feel like 38sp loads. But, if I were confronted by something 9 foot tall and furry, I think I would still want more gun.

John

This probably is not the reply you are expecting, but I suspect more folks have damaged their hearing than their risks from high-recoiling handguns. I have shot a lot of rabbits and squirrels with .22 pistols but the noise from big pistols has been a big factor in not hunting deer with pistols. Also, I had a near serious injury from my son-in-law's Taurus .454. This was during one of the first several shots fired from the gun. When the round went off I felt something hit my cheek, and it was bloody. A couple days later it turned into kind of a pimple and I sqeezed it. Out came some yellow stuff and a small peice of stainless steel. Apparently it was a burr from one of the holes drilled for the recoil arrestor. As I was shooting the pistol it seems the little piece of steel took a curved flight to hit me in the cheek. That was only a couple inches from my eye.

You were lucky. It can be a definite mistake to stand beside anyone shooting ANY kind of gun with an end of muzzle device.

Btw I don't want to turn this into a hearing thread, but I'd strongly recommend for magnums two layers of protection, ear plugs and the muffs over that. My ear plugs are those custom molded foam type that I had made at the trap range. And even then I replace the muffs every few years when the rubber seals start to age. That's in the fwiw dept...

Everyone seems to be concerned about injuries to the joints or bones. What about the little valves in the veins? I ask about this because I have a body bag I used to use for working out. I had not used it much for a couple years. Anyway I was showing off for my grandkids(how hard I could hit it). After a few really fast punches it felt like the veins in my forearms were hurting. It would seem that there would be little difference between quickly decelerating ones hands in one direction or accelerating them in the opposite. That is, there would still be a high increase in pressure against those little one-way valves in the veins. Could they be damaged?

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
You were lucky. It can be a definite mistake to stand beside anyone shooting ANY kind of gun with an end of muzzle device.

Btw I don't want to turn this into a hearing thread, but I'd strongly recommend for magnums two layers of protection, ear plugs and the muffs over that. My ear plugs are those custom molded foam type that I had made at the trap range. And even then I replace the muffs every few years when the rubber seals start to age. That's in the fwiw dept...

Peltor makes a set of muffs called the ultimate 10 with a 30 db noise reduction rating. Highly recommend them to anyone, especially those who shoot indoors.

John

I have wondered about this also.

I gave up on the Ruger .480 at a time when I was noticing the first stages of arthritis in one wrist. I have also had some tendinitis issues in elbows, and am very careful about padding my elbows when shooting anything much beyond a .41 Magnum from a rest.

There was a story in a news paper about a kid in Texas on a dove hunt with his father and some of his fathers buddies.

Durring a break in the dove hunting they started shooting their handguns.

If I remember correctly the kid was about 12 or 14. He fired a 454. The barrel hit him in the top/front of the head and killed him.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
There was a story in a news paper about a kid in Texas on a dove hunt with his father and some of his fathers buddies.

Durring a break in the dove hunting they started shooting their handguns.

If I remember correctly the kid was about 12 or 14. He fired a 454. The barrel hit him in the top/front of the head and killed him.

That is called totally irresponsible parenting right there. At that age, a 357 mag would be plenty potent. I can't even imagine the grief the parents would go through, and living with your wife after that... Forget it.

John

After reading that I was trying to think of something meaningful to say, but was totally unable to. What can you say?

Tragic accidents always leave that feeling. Our family recently lost a sweet little 90 year old lady who was in good health. Why? Because some fool thought it was OK to run a red light. That's how easily it happens.

We have to remember this is a dangerous sport we're involved in and there are physical consequences be it arthritis or something slowly over a life time or something more dramatic. It's haste, laziness or when familiarity breeds contempt as they say, when something always happens. Or almost happens. Many of us have been there and know that it was only luck that saved us or someone else.

Our sport in today's world won't stand much of this.