Good post Fiftydriver. I think the Barnes bullets are more suited to 44 or 45 magnums.

Just wondering if anyone has used the 1911 Gov. model for hunting? I thought it might be a good caliber for close in (up to 30 yds.)shooting on a non-alarmed deer. Any ideas on the best type of bullet to use? Has anyone heard of and tried the new Taurus .45 ACP bullets with the Barnes XPB bullet? Thanks for your replys.

Don't doubt there are better rounds for whitetail than the 45 ACP, but....



Have used a 1911 45 ACP with 230-grain WW Black Talons on African impala with no troubles. All were one-shot immediate stops. Ranges were close. Impala kidneys, liver, etc make good breakfast fixings.



Hammer

I thought about packing the .45 in a hip holster along with carrying the .308 during this next season just in case I get a shot at close range (30 yards or less) at a whitetail. I like the safety system on the 1911's also, cocked and locked with very little noise when shoving the safety off. Has anyone heard of the new Taurus produced .45 ACP ammo and tried it out. It is loaded with a 185 gr. Barnes 6 petal bullet similar in design to the muzzleloader bullets Barnes makes. They are said to expand to double the caliber AND penetrate 28% farther than conventional copper jacketed bullets. All that and I don't recall anything being said about it being +P. That sounds like it could make an already potent weapon into something akin to one hopped up on steroids. What do you all think? From what I have heard it is the only round they produce so far. Thanks and good shootin to ya!

Sounds like a good load. I have seen the barnes bullets for .44 cal handguns. They have a large hollowpoint and are solid copper. Too bad my E.A.A. witness only feeds hardball ammo.

Savage308,

I have done a little testing with the handgun bullets from Barnes and to be honest, I have not been real impressed for several reasons.

What I have witnessed is that they do expand to a very large frontal diameter. This is good for energy transfer but very bad for good penetration.

Combine the large frontal area with the very light for cailber bullet weight(185 gr) combined with the load velocity out of the ACP and your penetration is very poor. At least compared to a cast bullet or even a SP design.

Also, these bullets are quite long for a given bullet weight just like their rifle bullet counterparts. This increases aring surface and will increase pressures compared to conventional designed bullets of the same weight.

In a rifle that is not a huge deal as there is enough horse power to still produce very effective performance. In a case the size of the 45 ACP, I feel this is a bad idea.

Personally, If I were to shoot a jacketed bullet from the 45 ACP at game, I would shoot either the bonded core 230 gr Speer Gold Dot at 900 fps or the 230 gr Golden Saber at the same velocity.

From my tests, both of these bullets out penetrated the Barnes 185 by a fair margin.

We're starting with a 45 cailber hole anyway, more then most high performance rifle bullets after full expansion, why do we need any more expansion that will decrease penetration.

In my mind, the Barnes handgun bullets are a waste of time and money.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Hey fiftydriver, some good points made. I,ll have to try some of the Gold Dots, I know that Cabelas sells these. Thanks for the info. from everyone and keep coming with anymore ideas you all may have. All are much appreciated!

A friend of mine cruises a lot of timber. He has killed a few deer with a Glock 21 using hydra shocks. Ideal gun? Don't know. I wasn't there. At the time I would have to say yes. He hasn't had to go looking for any, though.

Beau

Have to disagree with you, have used that small 185gr bullet and killed 2 deer. 185gr Golden Saber-1387av.fps-11.3gr of Power Pistol,5in Springfield with a spring change to 45 Super. As I already posted this in under hang gun hunting under topic 45 super. Did one hell of a job that anyone of my 2 357's 1-4in the other a 6in barrel both in a Ruger-S-Six could never do with a 158gr Soft Point. Even a +p load 10.3 of power pistol and a 185gr Golden Saber at 1050av.fps is pretty potent if you do not push the limits of the 45's capability. .

4bambam, How far did the deer go after your shots? How much did the bullets penetrate and did they fully expand? What distances did you shoot? Thanks for your response.

4bambam,

I do not mind a differeing of opinion but I do have some questions for you about the deer you harvested with your 45 Super load.

First off, let me clearly state that I feel any top performance 45 ACP load will cleanly harvest deer with a clean broadside shot at ranges under 30 yards.

That said, your 45 Super loads are more like low powered 45 Colt(Ruger) loads and far in excess of anything one should try with the 45 ACP.

Also, I will say for a fact that the deer we hunt here in Montana, where whitetail bucks of mature age frequently top +300 pounds live weight, that your load would be stopped cold buy a shoulder bone on these heavy bodied northern deer.

Slip the bullet through the ribs and I would say it would PROBABLY do the job.

Penetration is key in effectively harvesting big game with a handgun, especially a conventional revolver and when we get into pistol rounds, it is of utmost importance. Far more so then velocity ever could be.

I also know for a fact that a 158 gr pill from a 357 will make the penetration of any 185 gr 45 ACP load look pretty pathetic, that is if one actually measures the penetration of both.

This is also if the 357 is loaded up to where it belong. But even a at 1000 fps, the 158 gr .357" SP will far outpenetrate the 185 gr .452" HP bullet.

Will the 185 45 Super do the job, obviously, your good marksmenship proves this, but there are better bullets for such a job.

Where do you hunt and what type of hunting style to you use?

Good Shooting!!!

50

Northern Utah, and as I mentioned under 50 yds hit my first Doe in the ear. My 2nd deer was a 3pt with the 45+p load still with 185 gr Golden Saber was just under 30 yrds.Put it right behind the shoulder. Ran about 50yds and dropped. I know the limatations on the bullet's I use, just like I do not tell you what's best for you're guns and for what to you use them for. I alway carry a Pistol weather 44R-hawk when after elk or-45-loaded Super when hunting Deer along with my Rifle, and if close enought to either with use a Pistol in stead of my Rifle. My first elk hit with the 240xtp H-110-26grs was a mistake-now I use a 240 Gold Dot Solid Point. That Golden Saber is a tough bullet, and like I said I do not push the distance and always have my Rifle. I have punched holes with my 357's and 158gr solids behind the shoulders of deer out to 60yds at most and had to finish them off with my Rifle. Ya I do Shoot my pistol alot. I am lucky to be able to take mine to work and practice, and even shot a Steer or 2 with them at work, or if they get out and we can not get them back with horses. Plus if they are to sick to get well.

I have killed several small Texas deer with a .45 Auto, but only because it was what I had on me at the time.

However, given the choice, my .500 Linebaugh (at about the same velocity) does the job in a much cleaner fashion.

I don't think you need a lot of velocity to do the job, but I do think that a flat point helps a lot.

4bambam,

I hope you did not take my response as a slam to your or your ethics, this is hardly the case.

This discussion is similiar to using the larger 22 caliber rifles on deer size game. In the hands of a quality shooter and at correct ranges, the likes of the 223, 22-250 and 220 Swift can be as deadly as any super magnum out there, perhaps even more so because of their shootability.

Knowing this I could still not recommend them to the novice big game hunter nor would I recommend a light bullet HP used in a 45 ACP.

Will they work in certain situations, there is no question. Should we all use a 45 ACP for deer, I would say know.

From the game I have harvested using conventional handguns ranging from the 357 to 50 A.E., I will say without a doubt, bullet weight and bullet diameter will drop game much quicker on average then light bullets at high(for handgun) velocities.

This is of course when the penetration does not effect the central nervous system. Of all the rounds out there, few will penetrate and cleanly kill game with brain shots better then the lowly 22 LR. I know several professional slaughterers and they all use this round on everything from hogs to +2000 lb bulls.

Not only for its economic reasons but also for its penetration and low noise. Still none would use it to hunt deer.

Again, I am not saying your 45 loads will not cleanly harvest deer, but if you shoot a large enough number of deer with that load, your chances of loosing a game animal will be much more then when using a heavier bullet.

What you say about the XTP bullets is right on the mark, but at the velocities you are driving the Golden Saber, that bullet will shed its jacket even quicker then the XTP.

This is not opinion, this is fact that has been proven in penetration tests. This is also why I feel the jacketed bullet is far more likely to fail then a properly cast LBT designed bullet.

There are two main views out there on bullet performance, one side likes to horse power light bullets to high speed and generate large kenetic energy values and feel this creates the best hunting load.

Others like heavy, large diameter bullets at moderate velocities that penetrate deeper then most big game rifle bullets.

In the end, no matter the opinion on what works, it is shot placement that kills game.

Please do not feel I am accusing you of being unethical, we just have different views on what we like to use in the field. I have been very successful with my system and obviously so have you.

Good Shooting!!!

50

No offence takin- That is my carry gun when deer hunting deer and I use the 45 Super load there. Then when concealed 45+p Remington Store bought 185gr Golden Sabers are used. That is what I am good at shooting out of all the 45 bullets Ive tried, even the XTP's. Plus remember I said, my rifle is always there not just the pistol, and with in range and a good shot the pistol is first. Plus I also can say out of shooting frozen milk jugs, I will take the Sabre before the 185gr XTP in my 45 Super load any day. But on the other hand accuracy is the same with the bullets, the XTP and GOLD DOT's 240gr in my 44 R-Hawk. Will add that in Utah, for Pistols hunting for Deer you must have 500fp's of energy at the muzzle, and for Elk-Moose-ect 500fp's of energy at 100yds. So at 1380-1387 av.fps with 45 Super, 790fp's at the Muzzle, and with the 44mag-240gr Gold SP-26grs of H-110 at 1620av.fps 913fp's at 100yds. So here in Utah a plain 45 load is really not good enough, +p Loads are IFFY as far as muzzle energy

Your plan is exactly what I did this year! I hunt deer with a .308, but carried my Kimber along just in case I stumbled on a nice one while walking to and from the stand. Much easier than swinging a rifle around in heavy brush.

My uncle used to use .45 ACP for deer all the time. The biggest factor is the shooter, not the handgun. An inexperienced handgunner will have problems.