Things are looking bit better for my project revolver that I would like to use for eventual hog hunt. Before making any decision on caliber and bullet, I would like to start from the end, where bullet hits;

How much in term of bullet weight, meplat dia and velocity at impact is ENOUGH for clean kill of 400-450 lb hog in chest area?

Yes, I know that 400 grains bullet, with 3/8� meplat dia., when slaps hog at 1400 fps is better than old Keith 44 Special load (Lyman 429421/250 gr with .280� meplat dia at 1200 fps at the muzzle). I do have 45 Bisley and working on heavy load for it (325 SWC, .330� meplat dia). But, is that level of power really required? Some shooters in WV claim very good results at 50+ yards with RCBS 44-250-K (.300� meplat dia, with WW this bullet weighs 260-262 gr.), 1300 muzzle velocity. If this is enough, I don�t see any reason why smaller bullet diameter (like .410� or even .400�) with same weight, meplat dia and muzzle velocity, shouldn�t have same effectiveness on the game. On top of that, smaller bullet dia., all other factors equal, has advantage of less drag while flying through the air, and that translates to higher impact velocity and energy.

Also, since I would like to use Hodgon H4227 because of its temperature insensitivity, could I expect better burning at the higher pressure in smaller calibers than what I am experiencing in 45 LC with 21 grains? I have two cylinders for 45 LC and when using original with .008� gap, didn�t experience any problem. But, when second cylinder with .003� gap was used, unburned powder will occasionally lock the cylinder. Anybody experiencing same problem in 44 and 41 with smaller gap, using this powder for top loads?

Any comment or suggestion is welcome. Thanks, Onty.

Unless you have canisters of H4227 lying around, WW296, H110, and 2400 are better suited for your application; at least in my opinion and experience. You have an excellent hog gun in your 45 Bisley. Load the 325s from 1000 to 1200 fps and you will have a very pleasant shooting load on the low end and one with plenty of authority on the high end. From your post, you sound as though you are considering buying a .44 or using one you now own. Another suggestion, if you do not presently own a .44, is just to try some of the 260 grain SWC bullets in .452". These may be loaded around the .44 Mag power range and should be effective on your intended quarry.



You did not go into much detail on your custom revolver. What do you intend to have built? If you are interested in suggestins for caliber, I'd recommend the .475 Linebaugh. I load 8.0 to 9.0 grains of WW231 behind a 405 grain LBT for a nominal velocity of 850 fps at the muzzle. This is plenty of horsepower to perforate your porcine targets.

onty-Many a hog has been killed with the .454 and Factory Winchester 260 grain Nosler Partitions.Some busting both shoulders and an exit.Having said that,If I was choosing a Hardcast bullet it would be one with a large meplat.

If caliber is the question then My vote is for the .454 where factory ammo is available almost anywhere if one needs it.Most all of the Big Bore pistols will work though.To each his own on Calibers.

Have fun on your hunt....Jayco.

Onty....I think that the .41 caliber bullets will do any job required. I have several .41 Magnum revolvers, TCs and a Marlin Carbine and it is about all I ever use.



Velocity with the 255 grain Cast Performance Bullet Company WFNGC bullet using 22 grains of H110/WW296 runs 1200 fps in a 4" S&W M57, 1350 fps in a 5.5" Gary Reeder Custom 5 shot and 1425 from a 6.5" Blackhawk. Meplate for that bullet is .33" which is the widest meplate I have found on any .41 caliber bullet.



As you pointed out to get the same SD from a .44 you need 290 grains of bullet. That translates into increased recoil. I can shoot top loads all day long in my .41s and it does not bother me at all.



From personal experience I would not build a heavy recoiling round around a Redhawk. It is just too punishing. Even in the .41 Magnum once you start pushing 250-300 grain bullets hard it became very unpleasant to shoot in short order. I tried every after market grip made and none really did the job or fit right and I have very long fingers. Toughest DA gun made bar none but it still comes straight back into the web of the hand.



Have used nothing but H110/WW296 in all of my guns for years. Get the top velocity with least pressure. Have noted no erosion and it is THE only powder that one can shoot top loads from a S&W revolver and not get hard ejection and flattening of the primers.



Bob

The revolver will be made from 357 Redhawk or Bisley using 357 Supermag Blackhawk cylinder, depends what kind of deal I am going to get. Regardless, OAL for loaded round could be up to 1.750�. Those 357 cylinders will allow line boring on larger calibers for maximum accuracy.

As for suggestion of going 454, well, that means custom five-bore cylinder and everything (in term of cost) that goes with it. Too much money for such combination.

Regarding H110, 296 and 2400 powders, no thanks. First, they are temperature sensitive and that means if I have loads at normal pressure in late autumn days, in the middle of the summer pressure will be well in red and accuracy will be certainly affected. Second, after witnessing erosion created by double based powders, I don�t have any intention of using in my revolvers anything but single base powders, even if they cost more. Those are the reasons why I would like to stick to powders like H4227 (check this link; http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page4.php). As for unburned powder, as experienced in 45 LC, by going to smaller caliber and retaining same weight, pressure could be safely increased to 37,000-38,000 PSI, and this should, according to some posts, allow cleaner burning. Also, small cylinder-barrel gaps like .002-.003� are OK for range, but for field I am leaning toward bit larger gap like .005-.006. Somebody could point on FA and very small gap these revolvers have but they also operate on 50,000 PSI and up.

As for caliber and bullet selection; if RCBS 44-250-K is yardstick, actual caliber could be less, like .410� or even .400�, as long as weight is 265 grains and meplat .300� because meplat is the one that creates wound channel, not full bullet dia. Retaining same sectional density, 265 grains .410� dia will be equivalent to 290 grains in 44, and 265 grains .400� dia will be equivalent to 305 grains in 44. Both weights are well within acceptable limits for 44 magnum and could be safely lunched at least 1300 fps from revolver with 7.5-8.375� barrel (see http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/44remmag.php#top). If my assumption is correct, 265 grains bullet at 1300 fps shouldn�t be problem to reach in either .410� or .400� barrel and still be within 37,000-38,000 PSI. As mentioned before, additional bonus will be less velocity loss for distances 50-75 yds due higher sectional density. On top of that, safety margin would be higher because of thicker cylinder walls than on 44 cylinder.

Now, back to real issue with bit different question;

Is 265 grains bullet, meplat dia .300� hitting at 1100 fps 400-450 lbs boar in chest area enough to make clean kill?

I would appreciate input from hunters that have first hand experience. Thanks, Onty.

I've not found a 240 grain launched at 800 to 100 fps to be lacking yet; even with the lower SD. Your choice should be fine.

Onty...See if you can pull up the two articles that Paco Kelly wrote for Sixgunner.com. "Heavy Bullets in the .41 Magnum" and "The .41 Magnum, Sunday's Child". They were excellent....Bob

Sorry, but I don't have the Hog experience you are looking for but I do have a small ballistics lab and do penetration tests in my own clay media. Without going into a lot of detail about the merits of the various, and very fine, 41 through 475 caliber loads in cast bullets out there, my experience tells me that when you combine such factors as penetration, power, field accuracy and recoil a 44 Mag in a Taurus 12 inch model 44 is well worth a look.

This revolver is long, of course, but not bulky and carries extremely well with the barrel down in a small back pack and the grips by your right ear. You can sit or go prone with no problem and still have very fast access.

Performance is basically the same as any number of the 44 Mag carbines out there, and recoil is a dead ringer for a heavy 357 mag load in a 34 oz revolver...the bbl heavy configuration really soaks up recoil and field accuracy is excellent. Starting at 300 grs you get a SD of .233, which matches up with a 330 gr .451 or a 275 gr .410, pretty good company. Penetration with any of these bullets that have the same meplat is identical in my testing aroud 1200 fps. Cost is $400 to 450 including scope mounts, if you use them.

Since you lean towards H4227 I feel that you will appreciate the long bbl as it gives this fairly slow powder a few extra inches to do its work. I completely agree with your concerns over temperature consistency in a hunting environment....good hunting!

You might consider looking at www.mountainmolds.com for your cast bullet needs. He can make you a mold to fit your gun. You can choose the nose length to take advantage of the longer cylinder and get the meplat and weight that you want.

I looked at his site and a 411 ca. in 265gn with 78$ meplat will be about .766" long. If you consider a .4" nose for col of 1.68" then quickload spits out
H4227 20gns 105% 1388fps @ 33.2ksi I put in a 10" bbl which should be close when takeing the cylinder length into account.

loading to 1.75" will leave a very shot base unless you are thinking of doing a wildcat. But it looks like the standard 41 mag will do everything you are asking for. You might check with some of the custom revolver smiths to see if they have a takeoff Ruger 41mag barrel that can be put onto your 357 Bisley.
If not that then Bauska barrels will make you a 28" barrel blank for $50 + $10 shipping, then you can make it how long and heavy you want. You could make barrels in 6", 8" and 10" and try all three.

Will you be putting a scope in the revolver or useing open sites?
Do you have a Ruger 357max cylinder located?

While I don't have any experience with hogs, I can say this, the 41 mag is about the best all around ctg. in terms of power vs. recoil. If my dad sees this he can tell you more than I, butI have owned a 454 srh and it was not pleasent imho as far as recoil.

As far as the redhawk's recoil, it does seem harder than some others, but I wouldn't classify it as brutal. Between the 3 41s we have the 5.5" redhawk Gary Reeder rechambered to his 41Gnr is the hardest kicking, the lightest kicking being the 6"dan wesson. The preformance on deer is impressive. Also AA#9 seems to work a little better than h110/296. Velocity is about the same, but less blast and recoil. I learned my lesson on the big 45s, a 41 is all I need.


Josh

�...Starting at 300 grs you get a SD of .233, which matches up with a 330 gr .451 or a 275 gr .410, pretty good company. Penetration with any of these bullets that have the same meplat is identical in my testing around 1200 fps...�

Sabot, what was meplat dia on those bullets you tested? Was 1200 fps IMPACT velocity?

*****************
�...You might consider looking at www.mountainmolds.com for your cast bullet needs...�

Custom mould isn�t issue. I design it on computer and friend makes it on lathe. We just made SWC 45-325 and SWC 44-315, meplat on both .330�. If they prove to be good with top loads I might consider manufacturing them. Now, I have a friend on my back; after he saw my 44-315 and 45-325 he is after me to make him SWC 500-440. But, I can�t use single cavity pistol 38 cal moulds as I did for 44 and 45, 500 is just too big and he is going to purchase large blank from one of manufacturers.

As for LBT, I don�t have access to NC lathe so far, and to make LBT is out of question for now. So, for time being, I�ll stick with SWC. There is an interesting article in �HANDLOADER� (August 2002), �Real Keith Sixgun Bullets, Elmer's legacy lives on! �, written by Brian Pearce. According to him, SWC bullets could work well on velocities even bellow 1000 fps, and above. LBT-s are better suited for higher velocities and sometimes they are loosing stability when velocity approaches 1000 fps. The only disadvantage of SWC is that they take more powder space than LBT, but for me this is not issue.

I might try to make truncated cone design, but grooves will be rolled. Have to make one slug on the late and try rolling before making mould.

As for 357 supermag cylinder, I got one from a friend few years ago. As for barrel, if I don�t manage to get Bisley 41, I would probably build one with 9-1/2� barrel.. Regarding sights, I don�t plan to put any scope. However, there is in Europe (have to dig through my magazine storage) a very small one, about 3/4x3/4x2 that I would like to try. But for now, if I build one it will have sight base similar in function to Redhawk or Hunter models SBH, so I can easily replace front sight. In that case I might try those fibre optic ones, I had even seen one set with fibre optic peep sight at the back.

BAUSKA barrels, this is interesting one; the price is good, any comment regarding their quality. Any website?


Thank you all, Onty.

Bauska Barrels
105 9th Ave. W.
Kalispell, MT 59901
USA
(406) 752-7706

I've heard good things about them, but haven't tried any yet. I have one on order though.

If your in Canada, don't they have huge restrictions on Handguns? I believe that the US has export restrictions on barrels to Canada so you probably would have to find a barrel maker on your side of the line.

Do you have Hogs in Canada? Or will you be comeing down for a hunt?

Onty,
Last year I took a 325 lb black boar using my Ruger Bisley in 45Colt w/4 5/8" barrel.My handload used a 275gr SWC with gas check (SAECO #454)over 23.0 gr of 296.The best I can tell,the meplat measure`s .330".
My first shot,at 20-25yds, hit high and clipped his spine dropping the back legs.Using the front legs he pulled himself into a dead-end of piled logs.I lined up the shoulder at 20ft and at the shot the boar rolled over dead.Neither of the 2 bullets exited.Hope this is of some help. Good luck.

I cut aluminum blocks with the bandsaw and mill them into mould blocks with my Smithy. I make LBT style moulds with no trouble and Shoot sub 1" groups with the .44, .45 and 45-70 revolvers at 50 yds. Deer go down so fast I still can't get over it. Don't give up! The LBT style is the best bullet shape ever designed. They even shoot cloverleafs from a Marlin .44 lever gun.
I have shot the LBT's to 500 yds with extreme accuracy.
I cut cherries on the lathe and made a cast iron vise to cut moulds.
I shoot Keith bullets with light loads for fun but when it comes to hunting, LBT's are the only ones I will use.