HI,

I have shot handguns for along time from class's in combat, ASAC class, to hunting. I have seen many a post about how handguns cannot get the job done with dangerous game, big bears and of coures BUFF, you know what I am saying.My question is to anyone here who has a handgun. I also say of course do you trust them?, do you think if you were in a life or death situation would your handgun save you?. Now I have a 500 Linebaught . I think some time if out in the back country in a tent would my 500L save my live if that is all I had. I may say most the time a handgun is what one has with you, carring a rifle or long gun around all time is not what is done. I also would like to hear about HC or Jacketed bullets?I know this may not apply to many here, but I will be living in AK soon, just thought I would like to hear from handgunners and there thoughts,I just cannot believe there is any bear that is to big for a big bore handgun, maybe I am wrong?,Kev

I've read Seyfried's stories about takeing Elephant with a frontal brain shot with 475Linebaugh. He also took a Cape buff through the sholders with said gun. They say the 500 has more frontal area and a bit less velocity so it may not penetrate as well on the Big African game, but should be right at home in AK. With all that said, i have not been there nor done that. I would consider the 500 along with the 475 to be about the best you could get your hands on. I would think that a hard cast bullet in the 400gn range would be ideal.



Then comes the single or double action argument. If your fending grizz off with one hand, can you cock and fire the single action with one had as effectively as a double action? I do like the looks of the Ruger Super Redhawk in 480 with the snub barrel. That would make a nice packing gun if you wanted double action.

I would think that stainless would be prefered to ward off rust in the damp environment.



"As I got use to it I can shoot it with one hand and that is with a 475grain WFNGC at 1200 fps and an 5.5 barrel."

Just read your other post. Sounds perfect to me and in stainless to boot already.

If it came to the point of push passing shove, I'd rather have my FA in .475 Linebaugh above any other handgun I could get my hands on. A hardcast bullet of 400+ grains going 1300 fps or faster would take care of the situation in my opinion.

If you do any amount of research on bear attacks you'll find that there are lots of cases where handguns have saved someones butt. You well also find there are lots cases where the person had no firearm and they did get mauled and or killed.-----------------------------------------------------------
There are may cases of smaller bears attacking people and trying to eat them. Many of these bears could have been killed with even a 22. Anyfire arm is better then a rock or sharp stick. If I knew I was going to be attacked a rifle would be my choice.--------------------------------------------------------
But the trouble with that one does not always have a rifle in his hands. Try making and gathering fire wood carrying a rifle or using the outdoors as a bath room and keeping the rifle in reach making supper ect.--------------------------------------
I hand gun but not be the first choice but sure beats getting mauled or worse. I carry a good stainless 357 or 44 depending on the mood I am in. Around home a glock 40 or one of my 9mms are with me always but then two legged preators might be more common then 4 legged ones here. But then 13 shots of 40 or 9 up the nose would most likely convice any bear to stay away.--------------------------------------
A good hand gun is very usefull tool and easy to keep with you and should be there when you need it.

Kev,

Of the handguns I own right now that would work as a protection handgun, I would choose hands down my stainless Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with its 4 5/8" barrel. Compared to the rounds others have posted this is a peanut but let me explain my reasoning for this selection.

First off, if I were in Africa, I would invest in a 475 Line. but as I live in Montana and will probably never travel out of North America, the Colt(Ruger) is my choice.

1) it is very small and light for its power. This means I am more likely to not get tired of it and stop wearing it. If I do not have the gun it helps very little if I need it.

2) its recoil is very controlable with top level loads. Allows quicker follow up shots if needed.

3) With its rubber Pach. grips this handgun is as weather proof as a firearm gets.

4) With proper loads it will fully penetrate any critter in North America from nearly any angle. I used to carry 300 gr WFNGC in this revolver loaded to 1250 fps which is not a full blown load but seemed to perform very well. Over the last few years I have tested the real heavies from 330 to 400 gr WFN and WLN and found that the 360 gr WFLGC loaded to 1200 fps gave the best combination of velocity and penetration for what I wanted which was grizzly protection in the Montana back country.

5) This load is very accurate, getting just over 1" groups of a rest at 25 yards and easily inside a 10" vital zone offhand and fired quick at 50 yards.

This would serve well is a big bruin though I was a chew toy or if I needed it to collect food if I were forced to service for a period in the back country.

Of course the other rounds such as the 475 and 500's are much more powerful but when in handguns of equal size and weight, they are a bit brutal and only the finest shooter can point them accurately. Most develope a serious flinch before they ever get good enough to actually be able to save their life using the handgun.

As far as velocity in handguns go, it means very little as far as penetration goes. Case in point, my 480 Ruger firing a 425 gr WFNGC at 1150 fps will fully penetrate any game I may encounter as will my Colt 360 gr at 1200 fps.

From my testing on big game, if you drive any heavy bullet of .429" or larger(+310gr .429", +330 gr .452", +390 gr .475 or +420 gr .500"/.510") to at least 1000 fps, penetration will always be top notch.

PLEASE keep in mind this is for North American game and not the big African and Asian critters. Also, if I were to live in Alaska all the time, I would also move up but for the occasional visit, my 45 Colt serves me very well and I have total confidence in it and even more importantly, in my ability to shoot the handgun quickly and accurately if needed.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Looking at this from the wrong side. The problem isn't with large caliber handguns it is with how determined the animal in question is in eating you. Case in point, I used to shoot a 210g Sierra over 19.5g/2400 in a .41RemMag as my go to hunting load. It has never failed to kill what got in front of it. I was very confident in that load and never had a second though about using it until I had a very up close and very personal dance with a
318-pound feral pig sow. I shot her at 18 yards with that load. Hit her where I always hit center front shoulder. She did a 90deg. turn covered those 18 yards in a flash and hit the door of the shooting house I was in so hard that my sons had to pry the door open so I could get out. The only thing that kept her outside was that the door opened out had to replace the whole frame and door it was sprung so badly. I now use a wildcat .41 caliber to shoot big pigs and use a 250g HC bullet. The problem wasn�t with the gun, caliber, or load. It was just that the sow didn�t know she was dead. That can be and many times is a factor in many maulings where a gun, any gun is used as a deterrent. The animal just didn�t want to concede the fact that it was dead. THE ONLY WAY to beat that is with a brain or front spine hit and any large caliber hunting handgun is capable of reaching those areas on anything that walks this earth.

There is a big difference between stopping and killing. For stopping, I'll continue to stick with my .475 Linebaugh. Once I've stopped something intent on eating me or doing me harm; I can kill it at me leisure.

Mine wears a 6" barrel and is very protable and easy to carry; also very accurate.

I don't see a vote for the 454 Casull yet.

I've never shot a bear but I can't imagine that a 300 grain Hornady XTP Mag at 1625 fps wouldn't make a bear's skull explode!

The issue would be keeping a cool head. Line the sights up, wait as long as you can, and squeeze the trigger.

The most powerful round I own in a handgun is a .44 Mag. I would not feel great about it as a stopper or protection round for dangerous game. But it's better than a rock!
As far as bullet, I would use a FMJ or FPJ like the 250 grain Sierra designed for Metallic Silouette Shooting. It will offer greater penetration on big stuff at the expense of expansion. It should be effective in the situation needed. My only hope is that the situation is not me sticking the Model 29 in a bear or lions ear!!

Of course there is a difference. That was just my point. You can indeed stop an animal without killing it just as you can kill one without stopping it. My point is that from .41RemMag on up you have all the power you need to kill or stop IF the bullet disrupts the CNS as with a forward spine or brain hit, again IF that bullet doesn�t do that and the animal wants you, at the close handgun ranges common to what we are talking about, you�ll be had. There is right now a clip making the rounds of a lion attack on a group of hunters. That lion was hit 6 times with what would be considered nominal lion calibers (.375 and bigger) yet it still got to the shooter. My point has always been that if things go dicey nothing short of a hand grenade will keep you from getting bit then it comes down to weather you want to hear your bones being broken by teeth or never hear the bang.

Kev, I would like to relate some of my thoughts and experiances I have had with bears and Handguns. I lived in Alaska ever since I was a boy, our island was heavly populated by black bears. I almost always carried a rifle when I went out fishing. On one day... I was fishing at the mouth of a stream for salmon, I had been sitting there for about 45min. When I looked back at my rifle (a 450 ackley) 20 feet behind me, a bear was sitting down like a dog, not 8 feet away, waiting to pull a fish for him! I didnt hear him come in. Well I was not toting my Blackhawk, and it took alot of nerve to stand up and walk past that bear to pick up my rifle. Ever since that day I kept a revolver on me when doing other chores. Still, on bears, even a 30-06 would be a better chioce. It would be very hard to get a shot off with any gun if you were attacked. If the bear was on you, it would very unlikely you would ever get your revolver out of your holster, because you would need to hands to defend your head and body from bites, and the weight of the bear. A incident, where you were in a tent at night might be different as the bear maybe poking around a bit before he gets at you, that would buy you time. Night bear attacks are serious because bears oftan hunt at night, he looks at you as prey, and doesnt give up as easly.
Even when fishing I prefer a rifle, but it isnt always practical. Moderation(shootability) and penetration is what I would look for in a handgun. Hell a 357 with hard cast 180s would even do the trick when you think about focusing on head and CNS shots.

One guy on our island carried a 4" M66 in 357, he was a bow hunter and thought nothing of walking around Adm. island around big brown bears.

A handgun is better than nothing, but my first pick is always a rifle.

I have never defended myself with a handgun against bears, but have with a rifle, and have huntted them with pistols.

Good points, all.



In addition to the difficulty in clearing leather, there's the matter of most of these big boomers being single-actions, requiring a working thumb. A guy is pretty well screwed if his cocking thumb is damaged and/or otherwise unavailable. Big-bore double-actions have a place in the world. In an attack, I think it's a given that it's not "if" you'll be damaged, but "how badly." In the case of us big-bore sixgunners using single-actions... well, again, if the cocking thumb is taken out of the equation, it's pretty much "over." I just don't see there being time to swap over to the weak (thumb-intact?) hand and defending against the attack.



Basically... opposing thumbs don't get nearly enough credit. "Take a thumb to lunch," that's what I say.



Russ

HI,

Smallfry, I have thought about that a few times, I have hunted in Maine for bears, not the big browns of course.I also would always want a rifle, shotgun,but alot of the time a person is not walking around with one on his shoulder.And I agree with the problem with a single action. I have a SSbisley in a 500L and the next one I will do will be a 500L in a SRH,but I thought I would rather have a handgun on me than a rifle some where else, sure is better than not having anything. Kev

Russel, that's why I was thinking of the Ruger SRH in 480 with a snub barrel for light weight and the double action.

HI,

LAR45,that is another good thought, what length barrel would you want?,Kev

kev and others... The very first Bear I ever saw shot was from my neighbor and friend Kile. The bear was shot right in front my house across the street with kiles 6.5x55 160gr Hornaday RNs. Well the bear took off into the bushes and Kile came up to the house. I asked if he hit it good and he said. "hell yeah I did...� or to that effect. He grabbed my redhawk and went in after the bear. I told him he should wait. Well the bushes were about waist high and I could see kile in them poking around. Here came the bear, awfully pissed. Kile shot all 6 rounds into the bears chest and just as the last round went in him and the bear was upon kile, the bear fell off an embankment onto the beach (10 feet or so). The bear was now pissing and moaning in one spot, I ran down and handed kile my 7mag and he put one in his spine/neck. We skinned him and found a few things out... first the 160 grain Hrndy was not placed well at all, the bullet traced through the spleen(fatal but not immediate) and the wound was very small. All 6 44 mag slugs hit the chest; none went passed the rib bones and all skidded down the ribcage between the bone and the skin. Thank god the bear lost his footing!

Now this bullet we used was an older Fed factory 180 load that we had been shooting Halibut with when we brought them up. The sad part is... we had brought up a few big halibut, shot them, and never got an exit! Halibut, even heavy ones, are not thick fish. Still... I would have thought the bullets would have entered the chest albeit not exit.



About a month later, I shot a larger bear with a serria 300 JFP, which sailed through my bear at the top of his heart; he walked on his front feet (much like a circus bear) for 3 or 4 steps and was dead. This bullet left about a 1 1/2" exit and exploded on the rocks behind him. I guess a guy would have to watch what he shoots out his revolver. Incidentally kile, myself, and my brother have taken both bears (black) and boars with the rem 240 JHP, and JSP and haven�t had a problem. But a hard cast or JSP would be a better choice.



As far as the snubs are concerned, I wouldn�t go shorter than 3"s. below 3"s and the sight radius is too poor for me in a panic situation. 4-5.5" would be right for me. Don�t get me wrong, a snub if put into a ransom rest will hit a gallon jug at 100 yards, they are just not as shootable.



A guy could argue without end, about the poor choice of a revolver, I myself prefer a rifle but have just carried a revolver at times. Think of all the poor sods that died with no gun on them, and all that have died with a rifle in their hands. You just never know, but a revolver is better than nothing.





BTW I just got another handgun for work done. Its one of those Accusport ruger stainless super blackhawks 5.5" with a unfluted cyl. in 44 mag. Havent shot it yet, but have taken some measurements on it already. Ill be doing a little work on it later.

Kev, I really like the look of the ones that have been cut back clear to the barrel shroud. I don't know how long the bbl is 2.5", but a 4-5" bbl would still give good velocity and a decent sight radius. If I was doing it, I think I would opt for a tritium front sight for low light conditions. I still think that your Stainless 500L is about all a man could ask for as far a power and packability. The question would be double or single action? I think that the 480 with a warm load and a heavy cast bullet should do just about everything. I have a Ruger Max and have thought that I really wanted a 475 Long, but it wouldn't be as packable.

There's a shop in alaska that is doing the conversions. I don't remember what the name is, but I would think that just about any smith could do it. The shop in Alaska was doing a round butt grip also that looked great.



2.5"bbl ?



4.5" bbl?

The said the weight of the shorter one wasn't very much. I wish I remember the name of the company. I'll search for it.

There is always the Taurus Raging Bull that comes from the factory in 5" and 480

You're thinking of Wild West Guns and the "Wolverine."

http://www.wildwestguns.com/

Reed

I've never shot a bear, so maybe I'm off base here, but I have a couple of Model 29 Smiths -- one has a 3-inch barrel. But I also have an SRH in .480 and one in .454. I think that I would be more comfortable with the extra oomph (for lack of a better term) provided by my Casull. Just got some 320 grain Corbon loads to play with. Then again, my .416 Rem would probably be the best choice!

hello all. i have a ruger gp101 in 357 mag im shooting 180 gr hollow points i believe it would at least slow a bear down if not kill it. i dropped a nice 8 point last year .it never new what hit it..

There is a big difference between shooting an animal which is neither spooked or agitated with one that is intent on doing you bodily harm at the least and eating you at worst. I believe this difference is what will make a spooked whitetail deer which has been shot to pieces continue running. Adrenaline can be a great ally or equally great opponent.

The .357 as you described may just very well slow a bear down and might even get it off you. It would certainly be better than being unarmed and if you were able to use it increase your chances of surviving an attack.

I must agree with the Hitman. In fact, with the jhp load you're using, it would just piss the bear off and tear you up. If you plan to use the 357 for bear, at least be sensible and use some 180 or 200 gr. penetrators. I believe Phil Shoemaker, the Master Bear Guide up in Alaska, gave his daughter a 357 with penetrators for bear defense.

Living in Northern Alaska, an outing might bring me closer to all three bears (polar, griz, black - depending on the time of year) then I'd like to be, when not actually hunting bears. In this case, rifle not withstanding, I carry a Silverhawk in 45LC, tossing 315/325 grain HC LBT's. A friend ('458 Lott/Paul H') made some 340 grainers for me, which I'll try out this summer. I'm sure these will become my carry loads.

I've yet to buy any heavy 44 Mag bullets, since my Bisley Hunter is still unfired. My previous 44 Mags used 300 grainers.

I'd carry either round (44/45) with confidence. Afterall, they sure do beat swear words and fists against any bear! Considering whether one's thumb(s) may be eaten/torn off, I'd say the trigger finger(s) are just as apt to come off too! A bear doesn't know which tastes better, so it'll bite both, just to piss you off.

Another thing to consider... just because a bear decides to attack/eat you, doesn't always mean it will continue atacking til you die. Its been known to quit/chicken out, just as fast, leaving a person alive. ~~~Suluuq