can someone tell me what is the maximum load (grains & fps) using lil gun and 250xtp. thanks.

What is the intended purpose of the load, if you don't mind me asking?

The 250 grain XTP is not intended for use in the Casull, but rather the .45 Colt. The jacket is thinner on it than the 240 and 300 grian XTP-MAG. Push it too fast and you run the risk of damaging the refolver by seperating the jacket and core at the forcing cone.

I'm looking to see how fast i can push the 250XTP in the Casull with Lil gun. Hornady doesn't list the 250 using Lil gun but AA does using #9 to around 1770 fps.

I don't have a Hornady manual so thought someone with one could tell me but seems they don't list this combo.

Do you intend to shoot paper or game with this load?

There is a reason why the combo is not listed in the Hornady manual. If you push that bullet to 1700 fps, you are overdriving it and risk damaging your revolver.

I don't know how to say this any more plainly than above.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
There is a reason why the combo is not listed in the Hornady manual. If you push that bullet to 1700 fps, you are overdriving it and risk damaging your revolver.

I don't know how to say this any more plainly than above.

Some people just love tearing things up......

If Accurate Arms can push a 250XTP to 1770 fps with #9 in a 7 1/2" barrel then I dont see why Lil Gun wont. Hornady makes the 240 xtp mag for the upper end of the Casull but AA says the 250 XTP will work at 1770 fps and thats good enough for me. Not trying to start a debate was just looking for some info.

Well, the Hornady people say it won't; so who are you going to believe? Besides, just because you can do something; does not mean you should.

I know you came here looking for information and this is obivously not what you wanted to hear. However, the fact remains you are trying to push the bullet harder than it should driven.

Results I have heard about Lil Gun have been mixed. It has worked well for some and I have have had less than impressive results. Maybe I just had a slow lot of the powder, but it never got the velocities I was getting with 296/H110 or #9 for that matter.

If you are just bent on using Lil Gun, you need a chronograph to work up your loads. Start at a minimum charge listed for a similar weight bullet and go from there. Good luck.

One last comment, A couple years ago I sent Hornady an email and asked them how much velocity the XTP could take and they replied "we designed the XTP to perform at velocities of 1800 fps or less. So according to Hornady anything below 1800 fps should be OK.

Since you're hell-bent on using a 250gr bullet with lg, then go do it and you'll find out with the very first shot on big game whether it really works or not.

Horn-Harvester -- are you planning on shooting game with this combo or are you just playing with it?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Horn-Harvester -- are you planning on shooting game with this combo or are you just playing with it?

Both. Since Ive used the 250 xtp to kill whitetail from a muzzleloader at over 2100 fps with no failure I see no reason it wont do the job at 1800 fps or less. Most likely the shot will be 25-50 yds so speed will be even less.

Since I don't have a Hornady manual i was wondering how fast they recommended the 250XTP. For the Ruger/TC 45 Colt loads they list it a little less than 1500 fps.

Not hell-bent on using Lil Gun, just have several pounds and like what ive seen it do with 300 grn bullets.

Sorry i ruffed some feathers. Like i said earlier i was just looking for someone who had a manual and would share some info.

Never hurts to ask......

I think the Casull is in its element with 300+ grain bullets. Just not a fan of light weight expanding bullets in big-bore revolvers. Sorry -- I'll get off my soap box now!! If I had a boat-load of Lil Gun, I'd use it too!

How have you found the penetration of the XTPs?

According to the Hornady manual I have, the top velocity on the bullet you want to use is 1,600 fps. I perosanlly wouldn't go over 1,500 just in case the jackets were a bit thinner than "normal".

Again, there is a reason Hornady does not list this combo. No good reason to overdrive this bullet when so many others are available.

I am sure that the 250 grain XTP can be driven to 2100 FPS out of a muzzle loader as the bullet is in a sabot and will not be damaged by the rifling.Driving them to even 1600 FPS out of a revolver is risky at best.The transition from the cylender to the barrel and through the slight barrel cylender gap is the problem.If the bullet jacket is not tuff enough the jacket can become very damaged and serious problems can occur.Your muzzle loader does bot generate any where close to the 60,000PSI pressure that the 454 wil generate inorder to push the 250 XTP to 1700 FPS.The bullet will obturate a great deal more in the 454 than in the muzzle loader.Serra ad a smular problem in the late 80's with thier silhouette bullet for the 44 mag. as it didn't make the transisition well abd had to modified.....

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Never hurts to ask......

I think the Casull is in its element with 300+ grain bullets. Just not a fan of light weight expanding bullets in big-bore revolvers. Sorry -- I'll get off my soap box now!! If I had a boat-load of Lil Gun, I'd use it too!

How have you found the penetration of the XTPs?

Penetration is good with most of the time being a pass threw shot. I like the 300 grain bullets too. XTP and cast both shoot great with 19.0 of Lil Gun.

The load I really like to shoot is 37.0 of Lil Gun and 240 XTP Mag @ 2000 fps....

Can't argue with pass throughs!

I've been going in the other direction with my Casull, using 400 grain loads......they sure do kick!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Can't argue with pass throughs!

I've been going in the other direction with my Casull, using 400 grain loads......they sure do kick!

You must be after elk, moose or grizz using them 400 grainer's! I think big bullets going fast is what turned a lot of guys off using the 454. I know a couple guys who bought them, sold them after a few shoots because of the recoil.

I have a Ruger SRH and changing the grips to Hogue Tamers helped big time. I enjoy shooting it a lot more than before.

Isn't it nice that we have so much diversity with the 454. you can shoot colt and power house 454 loads in the same gun.

I have two SRHs (.454 and .480 - the .480 is becoming a .475 Linebaugh as we speak). I recently put Hogue mono-grips on mine and it made it a lot nicer to shoot, but it will sit up and get your attention when you touch off the 400 grain loads. It's a good caliber. I hunt mostly hogs with it and so far it's proven quite capable.

There was a lot of problems when the first high pressure revolvers came out. The .357 max was one of them. Most of the bullets were not tough enough and the jacket would shed in the bore while the core was shot out. Another shot with a bullet jacket in the bore would ruin the gun.
I would not shoot the .454 with the wrong bullet and if you do, make sure you shoot single shots and look down the bore before loading another. You will ask for trouble loading 5 and just shooting them off.
If you think part of the bullet can't stay in the bore, you are wrong.
You are much safer playing with hard cast boolits or buying the magnum bullets.
I tried Lil'Gun in a .357, just starting loads to a little below max. The gun got very hot with 5 slow shots. I walked down to change the target, then shot 5 more slow shots. I could not touch the barrel and even the cylinder was very hot. I spent more time cooling the gun then I did shooting. There were no pressure signs and cases fell out, just heat.
25 shots with 296 and the gun was only warm.
I don't know what the stuff (Lil'Gun) does in a larger bore but it will never go back in the .357 again.

Guys, I'm not planning on going over 1800 fps with the 250XTP. If you look at Accurate Arms data they list shooting the 250XTP to 1770 fps and I'm sure they wouldn't post this load data if the bullet wouldn't take it. What kind of fuel i use to get it to that speed should make no difference if i stay under the pressure limits.

Whitworth,
Ruger quit making the 480 which will make them increase in value. Later on you might wish you hadn't had it converted. I hunt hogs but have to use a bow only. Out of all the animals i hunt hogs are the most fun. Have you ever shot any Barnes bullets in your 454?

I don't mind that my Ruger is modified -- hell, it'll still shoot .480 ammo....... I might buy another one used anyhow.....

Have not shot any Barnes bullets out of my Casull. I normally just shoot cast bullets out of it. Expanding bullets don't make sense to me as the .454 already has sufficient diameter. Lots of guys do use expanding bullets. I'm more concerned with penetration.

What do you normally hunt with?

I normally used jacketed hp for hunting and cast for plinking or practice. I like Barnes bullets in rifles but havent shot them in a handgun.

Its suppose to cool down some in the next couple of days so i plan on setting up my chronograph and check some loads.

250&300gnXPT are the only two I loaded in my 454FA-7.5" when I had it.
I dont remember velocities,but you could work it out from the loads.I recall around:
250xtp/33gn-w296, maybe a little more
300xtp/31.5gn-w296 Compressed load.
By the way I only used colt.45 cases and never nad a failure,and I tried!
Fired around 1000rounds from that rig without a hitch.
I did much reading on the casull before and after I bought one, never heard a mention of problems with xtp pills.But who knows,maybe I missed something somewhere.

The XTP is a good bullet and are all I use when I shoot jacketed. All of them might take the pressure but those without the mag designation open way too fast for hunting at high velocity.

I loaded down my 454 with 2400 and the 300 grain XTP(Not the mag) for 4-legged critters we are dealing with now...I love the load..You could shoot them one handed all day long at 1250 fps which is close to max for the other smaller calibers...

Good luck..Jayco

That's just it. You are down into the velocity range the bullets are designed to withstand.

It should get real interesting the day a jacket from an overdriven bullet gets hung up in the forcing cone and the next round tries to go through.

Hornady XTP/HP (not XTP/Mag) are similar to Sierra Sportsmaster handgun bullets in that while they may be able to withstand (and even perform well at) Casull velocities, they become unreliable under the pressures generated in a handgun to produce those velocities. The real question is, why use a 250gr XTP/HP when there is a prefectly suitable 240gr XTP/Mag available?

I was loading the 250 XTP at 1550 fps for deer hunting! I no longer do this!! Deer hit at close range (under 50 yard), had too much meat damage, blew a hole the size of a large softball thru the deer. I now load the XTP to 1250 fps, milder recoil better accuracy, and still stops them in their tracks.
Mike

Little update. None of the book loads are up to their speed over my chorny. Most are 200fps less than they list.

The load I'm really liking is 33.0 grains of 5744 and a 250XTP. Its clocking at 1450fps and 1" @25yds. This powder is made for straight wall cartridges and seems to work well in the 454.

That's a bit disappointing. Is it possible your chronograph is off?

Most likely not. Chronographs aren't called heart-breakers for nothing. Shoot a .22LR standard velocity over the chrono and you should get about 950. Or check it against a known load.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
That's a bit disappointing. Is it possible your chronograph is off?

It could be but i don't think so. I think is more of a "wish list" by the powder companies than a truthful list of doable speeds.

Most of the loads shot by the powder and bullet manufacturers are shot in pressure barrels. That is the main reason they can get higher velocities that most others do. There is also difference between lots of powder which cause these variations.

This has been something that has griped me forever. WHY does the velocity have to match what is said????? Is not accuracy more important? Work up the best loads for each gun and leave the chrono behind. Then see what you get just for your info and leave it be. SO WHAT IF IT IS 200 fps SECOND SLOWER! Animals do not have chronos taped to their sides so they only die if the velocity is correct.
I know what it is---bragging rights!

I agree; 200 fps isn't going to make a tremendous difference. The main use of a chronograph is for working up loads to prevent overcharging of a powder.

No bragging here. A chrony is a very good tool. It gives me a lot of usefull information besides speed. I want to shoot a bullet as accurate as i can but also close the speed i want.

I have seen 260 grain bullets fired from a Freedom Arms 6" revolver clock well in excess of 1700 FPS........It is certainly possiable with the right load out of a Freedome Arme revolver............

The 260 gr xtp and the 250 xtp are totally different bullets, the 260 is a maagnum the 250 is designed for the 45 colt. The 260 supposedly has a heavier jacket.