Which bullet?
Decisions
Decisions
Am I better off bullet that doesn’t deform, shrooms a little, shrooms a lot but holds together, or one that explodes and separates?

I am testing these bullets and loads on Corbin gel.
I am not finished with my load testing, so I don’t have the final pen data.
How many inches of pen do I need?

What are you planning doing with the bullet?I use hard lead bullets for big game they will not mushroom much if they don't hit bone but they will usually make two holes.I have used the hornady xtp some and it mushrooms well Most of the time at closer ranges.All I have to test my loads in is wet news paper but at 50 yards my load will penetrate about 13" to 19".Different guns will not be the same.

Sorry, looks like I left off an essential peace of information.

Lets assume I will be hunting medium to large whitetailed deer.

I have lots of experience at the range, but little when it comes to actual hunting. So, my question is more in the terms of terminal ballistics. And actual experience. What gave the best results?

Am I better off having a bullet that:
A: doesn’t shroom and goes completely through
B: shrooms a little and doesn’t complete pen
C: separates going in multiple directions

Since I have the gel to test in, I should be able to select and test bullets.

Oh boy, This is a great topic which is sure to elicit different opinions.
I prefer jacketed, expanding bullets which will hold together and either punch through broadside, and at least get to skin opposite of entrance wound on quartering shots.
I think most of the Hornady XTP bullets are great as well as the Speer bonded handgun bullets which includes the Gold Dot and some of their soft nose bullets.
Hard/semi-hard cast bullets will work as well, but whitetail (even the big ones) are not the bullet proof, thick skinned game some hunters would like to imagine them being. I see no reason why whitetails necessitate a hard cast bullet and I would just as soon have my bullet expand as long as it will hold together enough to penetrate.
IMHO you should definitely avoid light for caliber bullets meant for self defense which may "separate going in multiple directions". If you hit a deer in the shoulder with one of these there is a high likelihood that the bullet won't get to the good stuff.
If your interested in .45 caliper I can give more specific advise for what works.

Wes

I like the Hornady XTP for deer hunting. Used a 210 gr .41 mag bullet this past season for a nice 8 pt whitetail at 60 yds. Bullet entered with about a 3/4" hole and exited about twice that on the off side, great blood trail and deer ran about 50 yds and died. Hardcast on deer drill a hole the diameter of the bullet.For deer jacketed penetrate just fine.

Wesr, I happen to be interested in .452 bullets for the 45 HEAVY SUPER.

The fragmenting bullets I am playing with are 230gr Quick shok TRITON SMC (basically 45 Super). These are not Glasers. How deep of penetration do I need?

You dident mention caliber but anything over .41 realy does not need to expand to do the job as long as you can get through the vitals. You realy want a bullet that will penetrate completly and for that reason hard cast bullets with a large meplat were/are the standard, and you will never go wrong with a Keith, or WFN design.

There are now jacketed bullets that perform wonderfully and will hold together going through bone and panetrate completely. The Partitions & Seirra Match Masters offer the greatest penetration, the XTP's & Gold dots are also a good choice if ranges are moderate. Try the Seirra Match Masters in your test; if driven hard they will expand slightly, but their major advantage is that they are a very accurate bullet in my handguns and they penetrate. My standad load (Rugers, Carbines or similarly strong actions only please) in .44mag is the 220gr Match Master on top of 25gr of H110, Winchester brass Mag primer) I reciently started testing the 170gr Gold Dot in .357, it is accurate in my 8 3/8" match 686, but I have no data on terminal performance.

Buck
One Ragged Hole

ddunn,

I don't have any experience with the Super, but have use the .45 Colt at the same velocities and would recommend either the 230gr Gold Dot or XTP.
I would avoid any frangible loads on deer at all cost as these may not make it through the shoulder of entrance.

My personal preference is to lean toward full penetration with the resulting blood trail. I'm sure a lot of more dedicated handgun hunters can specify cases that support their alternate preference but I shoot my handguns more by opportunity than by intent so I take no chances on incomplete penetration or lack of blood trail.

WESR, What velocity are you pushing the 230gr JHP too?

I would go with a heavier bullet for your intended application. I prefer complete penetration over wxpansion. You are using a bullet whihc has a starting diameter of nearly one half inch. The 240 XTP works well for me in my .44 mags as does the 260 Speer in my Casull. These bullets do expand, but I have not recovered in a deer either.

MS Hitman, What velosity (or load) are you using?

Since I have a 44 mag, I am tempted to duplicate some of these loads and test them on the gel. I don't have a 454 but might be able to barrow one.

The .44 load is 24.0 grains of WW296 or 21.0 grains of Hercules 2400 behind a 240 grain bullet. The newer 2400 burns a bit more quickly and loads need to be adjusted accordingly. I have used the XTP, Remington hollow point, Sierra JHC, and various cast SWCs with satisfactory results.

The .454 load is 32.0 grains of WW296 behind the Speer bullet.

Now before I post any of my 45 Super loads, I need to state that my gun is customized and are VERY HOT and I do NOT recommend anyone use these loads.

MS Hitman, from my testing I have already done, I can tell you that you are getting expansion. In fact I think you are getting lots of expansion.

My 44mag load is very close to yours. It expands and penetrates several inches into dry phone books.

One of my 45 Super loads is a 260gr Speer over 10gr BlueDot. With this load I am getting a little expansion. I end up with a little cylinder that is flayered.

With my hottest 45 Super 260gr Speer Power Pistol load I am getting expansion. The bullets look like little mushrooms about half the time. One of my little mushrooms has a crack in the jacket that goes down to the base.

I am guess that the Power pistol load is going faster than the Bluedot load. When spring comes around I will have a chance to shoot them over my chronograph and know for sure. Now here is the funny part, I am getting more penetration from the bullets that don’t expand vs. the ones that do expand.

I love XTP's and have found them to be the most accurate bullet after years of silhouette shooting. My problem was that using the 240 gr. .44 on deer, I was recovering bullets against the ribcage when no bones were hit. Killed the deer real good but I often wondered about hitting a heavy bone or taking a quartering shot. I switched to LBT style WLN boolits for all my calibers and will never go back to a jacketed bullet. I have never had a deer go over 30 yds. and most only go 10 or drop right now. Blood trails are unbelievable but of course I never have to track one. I have never recovered an LBT after digging in the dirt for an hour, don't know how deep it went after going through a deer. The effect on animals is stunning but I can butcher right to the holes. Lungs just pour out but no meat loss. I have boxes of XTP's that just sit in the storage box now because the LBT's are just as accurate, kill better and don't cost me anything to make.
Only thing to watch for when hunting is to make sure there are no other deer behind the one I am shooting, I think it will take out 3 of them.
If I were to hunt with the .44 XTP, I would go to the 300 gr., great bullet.

By the way, the 320 gr. LBT WLNGC .44 boolit loves 21.5 grs. of 296 and a Fed 150 primer. I have shot several 5 shot groups of 1" at 75 yd's with this load out of my SBH. I have a pop can I nailed at 200 yd's with the SRH from sandbags. The Lee 310 gr. boolit shoots as good.

Now I know the WV deer aren't any larger than what we have down in MS, at least not around Petersburg. I haven't recovered XTPs, but I find it interesting that you do bfrshooter. Honestly, I could switch right over to cast just like you did and be perfectly happy. I just have so damn many 240 grain XTPs I bought in the blem sales.

I don’t get it.

The lead bullets just zip through the deer. I don’t understand how this causes the deer to drop.

I would think that the LSWC would be just like shooting a deer with a FMJ bullet. Which I don’t think would be a good idea.

Is it the flat point?
Does it cause a temporary expansion and rip the flesh and blood vessels?

Ddunn, You might do some searching for info on 'meplats" Buffalo Bore has some discussion on their website for one. I did some experiments with woodchucks between FMJ and LSWC bullets for 44 and 45 cal .With a FMJ you have to push a little to get your finger in the hole ,while with the LSWC your finger easily goes in. In other words the LSWC actually cuts a full caliber hole in tissue as it does in paper while the FMJ pushes aside tissue.The difference in performance is sustantial.When I hunted deer with handgun I used the Speer 225 gr jacketed SWHP.The performance was great and I recovered only one bullet which penetrated 25-30" of deer and expanded to .50 cal...I do like an exit hole since entrance holes don't bleed much .

Ddunn, the LBT's have a large flat meplat. They not only cut a large hole but also put a lot of energy in the deer. It is not true that a boolit has to stay in an animal so all the energy is expended inside. It just doesn't work that way. With all the deer I have shot with boolits with large flat meplats I can say they work better then an expanding bullet and there is a LOT more blood then from a boolit that stops.
I seen pictures of cavities in ballistic gelatin from them and they were actually larger then from jacketed bullets and the penetration was 3 times farther. I cast them pretty hard and have shot them through 10" trees. I want complete penetration no matter where a deer is hit.
I shot a very large doe after tracking her in the snow last year and hit her too far back because of brush in the way. She was still down in 30 yd's and I could have run on the blood trail. What a terrible mess she was inside.
All I can say is that they work. There are some very good jacketed bullets out there, but I would look for one that does not open too fast, or one with a large meplat. Thats why I say the 300 XTP is good because it keeps on truckin.
I tried the Lee 310 gr. on deer out of my grandsons .44 Marlin lever gun. She was 65 yd's and at the shot she just pitched to the ground. I thought I hit the spine but the boolit went through the shoulder on my side and out behind the far shoulder. She didn't even kick so the impact must have been tremendous. No meat damage even in the shoulder, just had to pick out the hair. She was good sized, dressed out at 158 pounds.
I won't try to change what you guys use, if it works for you thats fine. But I retire my condom bullets when hunting.

Thanks guys, but I need to see it to beleive it.