The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting BFR 475/480 or 500JRH ?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I want a new big bore hand gun. I've got a 44mag and a 45 blackhawk, I had a 480 ruger, sold it years ago, but I still have the dies. Now, I just want something bigger to play with, So I sorta narrowed it down to one or the other above. I'll probably never shoot anything bigger than a whitetail. So whats the advantages between the two, as far as brass, bullets, recoil, ect. | ||
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While I have owned and hunted with a number of .480s and .475s over the years, I personally would step up to the .500 JRH. I feel like you really don't need a caliber bridging the gap between the .45 and the .50 cals. The .500 JRH is a great round -- the most logical of the .50s. Bullet selection is great, and it kills game with aplomb. Plus, you can cut down .500 Smith brass in a pinch. Spoke with Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore fame last week and he had just finalized an order for .500 JRH brass as he is going to be producing ammo for it again, which means that brass will again be very available. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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How does the 500JRH kill game with aplum? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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The pit of the plum is quite lethal. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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thanks Whitworth, I was leaning toward the 500JRH, but was concered about the cost, and availability, of reloading brass. | |||
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No problem, Joe! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I know from reading your posts, that the ultradot holds up on these pretty good. where do you get the 30mm rings for it, and will it mount on the mount BFR sends with the gun? | |||
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The .500 JRH is a fine, if you need a sub-caliber training round for a .500 Linebaugh  . Seriously, either round is very effective, so it's a matter of preference.If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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.475 cal bullets aren't as common as .50 bullets. 500 JRH brass is pretty scarce though. If you are interested in a BFR, I would suggest go the whole hog and get the 500 S&W cal, or even the 460. Commercial ammo is freely available, so are dies, cases and bullets. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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But then you are stuck with the long framed revolver and not the "normal-sized" piece. .500 JRH brass can be made by cutting .500 Smith brass down and Starline signed a deal with Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore a few weeks ago to start producing .500 JRH brass once again. I prefer a revolver that can be easily packed -- but that's just me.  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Yes the long cylinder BFRs are very big. The "regular" cylinder BFR aren't really very compact either though. If you want something to pack, an FA mod 83 is the most compact piece that can still deliver the goods. Jack Huntington can convert your 454 Casull mod 83 to 500 JRH, or you could look for one .475 Linebaugh or .500 Wyoming. Unfortunately they are not cheap. To get back to your question re .475 L vs 500 JRH, for all practical purposes they are the same. Ballistic twins "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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no they're not. One is .476 in diameter, the other is .500. Not ballistic twins in the least. Bob | |||
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I wouldn't call them ballistic twins. The Blackhawk makes an even slicker (and lighter) .500 JRH conversion IMHO. Huntington built this Bisley for me last year.  Here is a photo (sorry for the poor quality of the photo) of one of my FA83s top and my first .500 JRH BFR below. They're not that far apart as far as size is concerned, or weight for that matter. Yes, the BFR is definitely beefier, but it has a longer cylinder, which doesn't limit its ability to swallow long bullets.  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I could not disagree more. There is simply no need to drag around such a huge horses pistol as the 500 & 460 S&W cartridges are housed in. I own the very first ever converted FA-83 in 500 JRH, I also own a BFR in 500 JRH the BRF is not over size and is by for the best bang for the buck spent. Grizzly Ammo use my 500 JRH BFR to test there factory loads. The owner of Grizzly Ammo told me that is the most accurate revolver that he has ever fired and he owns many FA revolvers. I had the very first 475 that Hamilton Bowen built and I shot the very first grizzly and moose ever shot with the 475 Linebaugh. I like the 475L very much, but the fact is the 500L and JRH hit very large game harder than does the 475. It is easy to see with ones own eyes, I have had several by sanders watch both hit buffalo and every one agreed that the 500's hit harder. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Hilarious. Maybe you need to get acquainted with the definition of "ballistics" before making comments re ballistics? "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Not sure what part of my comments led you to believe I suggested anybody to "drag" around a long cylinder BFR. If you actually read my post you notice I recommend a mod 83 Freedom Arms.
I also own both BFRs and mod 83s. While I am very fond of my BFR (I have 460), my experience re accuracy has been very different.
Really, people watch you shoot a buffalo with a .475 and then watch you shoot a buffalo with a .500 and they can "see" the 500 hitting "harder"? Wow. Just what is it one sees? "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Similar velocities with similar bullet weights means ballistically similar to me. But my point is not to argue semantics, rather I meant to convey that whatever the 500 JRH will do, the 475 Linebaugh will do. Disclaimer, I own a 475 L, I currently have gun at FA being converted to 500 WE and I am planning to pick up a mod 83 in 454 for Jack Huntington to convert to 500 JRH. Caliber wise I don't have a dog in this race. I've never bothered to measure, but the BFR has a longer cylinder, the frame probably between 1/8 to 1/4" longer and the grip extends out the back another 1/8" to 1/4". You'd also see height of the frame is probably between 1/8" to 1/4" higher. Hence my recommendation of a mod 83 I like your Ruger. I am debating having one converted to 500 Linebaugh but both Craig Linebaugh and David Clements have a 12 month turn around time. I'm not a patient man. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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How much load development have you done for the .500 JRH? My top end H110/296 .500 JRH loads are considerably hotter than my top-end H110/296 loads in .475 Linebaugh. Just asking. John Linebaugh has about a 3 year turnaround right now. Don't know where Clements is at this stage. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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hilarious. maybe you shouldn't blather about calibers you are obviously not well acquainted with. Bob | |||
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and who is craig linebaugh? Bob | |||
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Familiarity with calibers is absolutely irrelevant to ballistics. Ballistics is a function of mass and velocity. Caliber differences does not preclude carts having the same ballistics. I can load my .460, .475 and .500 to have near identical ballistic should I choose to do so. Peace out. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Yes they can tell the difference, it is not difficult. You would know this if you had any experience in the field. I read your post and know exactly what you said. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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so basically you have no actual experience with the .500 JRH. new guy blathering and who did you say this craig linebaugh is? you need to google better peace out? what, are you a teenager? Bob | |||
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Acctualy familiarity with the calibers is very relevant. Terminal ballistics is about wound channel and the larger bores have more frontal area which creates a larger wound channel. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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you're reaching jwp. I love all of the guys spouting their opinions about the effectiveness of X caliber over y caliber on big game and it turns out they either have no experience, or the biggest thing they've shot is a whitetail Bob | |||
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What am I reaching? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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None on 500 JRH. I have had some discussion with Jack (Huntington) and he is the one who got me thinking of building a JRH on a mod 83 platform. As a rule I never “push” carts. I have found accuracy to suffer and given there is nothing on the North American continent that cannot safely be taken with medium 500 JRH and 475 L loads, so hot loads have barroom banter value only. I use H110 a lot also. Found it work very well on everything 44 mag and up. Mr Clements told me that for a 50% premium he would build me a 500 L on a Ruger platform in 6 weeks. That would be north of $4,000, so I declined the offer. Another option I was looking at was Gary Reeder; if I can get him to refrain from putting his “art” on the gun and just leave it blue. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Wound channels do not factor into the calculations of ballistics. Apples and oranges. Sure familiarity of cart are important, familiarity with calibers are irrelevant in the calculation of ballistics. You'd notice I used the term caliber and I did so by design. I am more than happy to take the high road and discuss it with you, but I will discuss what I said and not what you wanted me to have said. Fair? No, the larger caliber does not always produce the larger wound channel. Velocity and bullet construction play important roles. I have seen tremendous damage done on impala with 243 and a very little on a similar sized animal using a 308. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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This from a guy that degrades a discussion on two calibers to calling me out from confusing Craig Lyman first name with John Linebaugh. Tut tut. What next, you going to try catch my spelling grammatical errors too? No I am not a teenager. I used the term “peace out” to signal that I really have no interest in partaking in your lavatorial interactions and was hoping you would be sufficiently adult to feel the same. Clearly, not the case. Personal experience with a cartridge has absolutely no bearing in any way shape or form to understanding the concept of ballistics. Claiming caliber being a factor in ballistics demonstrates that it's a concept you don't quite understand. My limited knowledge on a 500 JRH comes straight from Jack Huntington who told me the 500 JRH is ballisticly similar to the 475 L. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you discuss it with him. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Read and comprehend. I stated "terminal ballistics" do you not understand the meaning of terminal ballistics. Caliber is always relevant to terminal ballistics. The calculation of foot pounds of energy is irrelevant. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Oh, I didn't say you couldn't. I asked you explain on your observations. You don't know me from Adam, and questioning your assertion that a .475 vs .500 produces an easily observable effect does not mean I don't have hunting experience. My question is 100% cogent, and I ask because I have hunting experience. I've seen animals "knocked down" vs. run for miles with the same caliber. I've seen animals knocked down by smaller carts and run with larger calibers. Hence, I am interested in how you conducted your observations. What loads did you use? Did you load same bullet weights and to the same velocities? What type of bullet construction & make? Were they both the same? What animals do you speak of? What was your bullet placement? At what distance did these bystanders do their observations? And yes, I do think your comment is far fetched, but given I own .475 and .50 cal guns I would like you to further your comments as I was planning to using the 50 cals for protection and the 475 for hunting. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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My dear fellow, you responded to my post and I was talking ballistics. If you go sideways on the topic it's not my comprehension that is lacking. But let me take the high road. Re terminal ballistics. Firstly, I repeat, ad nauseam, wound channel has absolutely no bearing on ballistics, whether terminal ballistics or not. Secondly, all things equal, (meaning ALL things equal, bullet shape, velocity, weight etc, got it?) a smaller diameter projectile will always have better terminal ballistics because of greater sectional density and reduced drag. Thirdly, given point two and your comments re caliber; all things equal (same muzzle velocity, bullet mass, weight, bullet shape), retained kinetic will always favor the smaller diameter projectile because of its superior drag coefficient. Stated otherwise, given all things equal, the .475 L will always retain higher kinetic energy over distance than a 500 JRH. That is pure physics. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Wound channel is absolutely relevant to terminal ballistics. Where are you coming from on this? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I read some dumb statements on the Internet from time to time, but yours ranks in the top of them when you claim that wound channels has not to do with ballistics. You demonstrate a total lack of understanding when you claim that because of "kinetic energy" the smaller caliber is favored. At the Linebaugh seminar in Jackson Mississippi the 500L and the 500 JRH both out penetrated the 475L. WOW just WOW. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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No I do believe I said “wound channel has absolutely no bearing on ballistics, whether terminal ballistics or not “. I did not claim “claim that wound channels has not to do with ballistics “. And no, I did not claim “because of "kinetic energy" the smaller caliber is favored “. I said given all thing equal a smaller caliber will retain more kinetic energy. I quote verbatim “given all things equal, the .475 L will always retain higher kinetic energy over distance than a 500 JRH. “ I call you out as a liar, pure and simple. You cannot respond so you change my words to bolster your argument. Pathetic. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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Hi Paul! I see you have joined this forum I recommended to you, and are enjoying the discussions! For those of you that don't know Paul, he really is a nice guy, knows what he's talking about, most of the time, isn't afraid to admit when he's wrong, and he really enjoys a "healthy" discussion! Welcome buddy! NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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Yet he has come here and called one of the most experienced handgun hunters I know, and a longtime member here a liar. I'm not okay with that to be honest. Newsflash: there are others here who "know what they're talking about" as well and have been at this racket a long time. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I called him out as a liar because that is what he is. If you change somebody's word into something other that what he stated, you are a liar. And yes, seems even experienced hand gunners can be liars. "A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will not escape." Proverbs 19:5 | |||
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If there is a liar to be called out here all you need to do is look in the mirror. We all know what you said and the BS part of what you said. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting BFR 475/480 or 500JRH ?
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