Just to let you guys know, it's been a pleasure working with RG. He bought out George and Strong Arm Ballastics. Ordered a batch of .500 400gr jacketed bullets with a 3/8" steel ball bearing tip. RG was great in that he was constantly communicating thru the process. The bullets took awhile to arrive but that was because they were not up to his quality standards and he changed the process George originally had. Said that he was not happy with the centering of the ball bearing as it lead to uneven jacket thickness at various points. That's the kind of guy I want working for me...one who is more worried about quality of work and customer happiness then just getting the product out the door. As they just arrived today, I looking forward to loading them down the pipe of my S&W 500 and reporting back.
If interested in his contact info or to see what he offers, just drop me a line.

Why do you see the need for the ball bearing?

Do you want a bullet that expands rapidly?

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Why do you see the need for the ball bearing?

Do you want a bullet that expands rapidly?

The idea behind the ball bearing is not only to provide a more rapid expansion but to provide an additional and separate wound channel. Unlike a simple hollow point that may fragment into small pieces and lose velocity quickly, the bearing would create a sizeable channel in itself and penetrate further.
I like the idea anyway.

I am of the opinion that when you are starting out with a projectile of 1/2-inch in diameter, there is little need for expansion. But, that's just me. However, I am willing to experiment and listen.

I'm booked for a hunt with Spiral Horn Safaris next year. Plan on putting these to the test on lioness and sable, hence the reason for rapid expansion with a 'kick'. I know the 500 will perform just fine but I'll take any edge I think I can get. Think lioness would be a perfect application for this type of bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Why do you see the need for the ball bearing?

Do you want a bullet that expands rapidly?

The idea behind the ball bearing is not only to provide a more rapid expansion but to provide an additional and separate wound channel. Unlike a simple hollow point that may fragment into small pieces and lose velocity quickly, the bearing would create a sizeable channel in itself and penetrate further.
I like the idea anyway.

If I understand correctly the ball bearing is in the tip. That means upon impact the ball bearing is driven back into the nose to aid in expansion, that would make it very unlikely to create a separate wound. IMHO

Since the ball bearing is basically sitting in a pocket and held in place by a thin jacket, I would expect that at a point, the main 'body' expands and loses momentum quicker than the bearing. Just shooting into the dirt bank today, I could only find/recover the main body, not the bearing of a few bullets. I guess one can only tell once recovered from game as I don't have ballistic gell or a setup to measure penetration and trap the bullet.

When the ball bearing hits the target it is stopped the rest of the bullet continues forward this is how expansion is aided. This concept is not new nor is it revolutionary. Nor does it increase effectiveness IME.

Not here to argue physics, just stating what is observed. To that degree, I also have shot quite a few rifle/muzzle loader bullets with tips that were found separate from the base and in other areas of the meat on game. I guess the test will be recovered bullets on said game.

If I were going to shoot a lion I would want a proven performer, but that's just me.

Isn't this the same guy that made the aluminum tip bullets for long range shooting several years ago with exaggerated BC claims?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Isn't this the same guy that made the aluminum tip bullets for long range shooting several years ago with exaggerated BC claims?

What does one have to do with the other? These were developed by another man who he bought the equipment off of and is making with a slight change to the process so there is a more uniform jacket. There are no claims of increased BC or anything else. As far as the comment itself, if that is something you wish to address with him, I'd be happy to get you two in contact for discussions

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Isn't this the same guy that made the aluminum tip bullets for long range shooting several years ago with exaggerated BC claims?

What does one have to do with the other? These were developed by another man who he bought the equipment off of and is making with a slight change to the process so there is a more uniform jacket. There are no claims of increased BC or anything else. As far as the comment itself, if that is something you wish to address with him, I'd be happy to get you two in contact for discussions

Did you in a round about way answer my question?

I know there are no claims of BC but I remember this claim.

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Why do you see the need for the ball bearing?

Do you want a bullet that expands rapidly?

The idea behind the ball bearing is not only to provide a more rapid expansion but to provide an additional and separate wound channel. Unlike a simple hollow point that may fragment into small pieces and lose velocity quickly, the bearing would create a sizeable channel in itself and penetrate further.
I like the idea anyway.

A claim to aid in expansion and to create a separate wound channel.

Why are you so defensive are you connected to the company?

Boy has this thread digressed. What started as a simple way to say thanks and let someone know I appreciate their effort and work ethic, has turned into this.
So let me state for the record.
There was no claim, only that what was stated was my personal opinion based upon past experience using tipped bullets. Neither George or RG expressed why they decided to make a bearing tipped bullet.
I have no affiliation with RG or the company. Was only introduced after George could not fulfill my order and told me he was selling his outfit. I don't know of what RG has done/said in the past so I refuse to comment on the aluminum tip issue brought up.
Apologies if you see this as defensive.

While I do not have a pistol that large, I would like your report on it's effectiveness when you return. If they make it in .45, it might be good for my muzzleloader. I can see where the bearing, held in the cup could create an expansion then continue forward with momentum, while the "base" would be slowed more by the expansion.

Well, had some time to work up loads and be on the range. The recoil of the 500 is knocking the bearing out of the jacket. Had a talk with RG on this matter. He thinks George may have been selling them to guys using the 50 Beowulf. They definitely don't work in a revolver unless it's the first shot. I was averaging 1 ball bearing separating from the cartridges in the cylinder on the first shot and by the second, everyone in the cylinder had separated and rolled out. This was not a heavy load - only 33.4 grains of Lil Gun.
It was evident the bearing aided in expansion and in stump shooting, the bearing did go beyond the core.

I wondered if the crimp could hold the ball with all that recoil.

I'm sure you'll be fine with more standard hunting style bullets. I also have a .500 and for me I would be more worried about perfecting my bullet placement. Those guns aren't easy to shoot.

Best of luck on the hunt, we'll watch for the report.

quote:

Those guns aren't easy to shoot.

I Haven't found them harder to shoot for the first round they make rapid accurate follow up shots a lot slower

quote:

Originally posted by Kyler Hamann:
I wondered if the crimp could hold the ball with all that recoil.

The jacket has an opening that is slightly smaller diameter than the bearing. The bearing is forced into the opening in the jacket and the jacket basically "gives" enough to allow it past and then "returns" to form. Unless the jacket would be applied with the bearing in place, I don't see this being a viable option for revolvers. Single shots, muzzleloaders, etc would work fine. In discussion with RG, problem is centering the bearing, getting it to stay in place and then getting a uniform jacket around the bearing. Until that could be done....

A touch off topic but related.
As dumb assed kids back in the late '50's.
We filled 12ga hulls with molten wax and dropped glass marbles in it. Most of the time just one but, up to three a few times.
They would blow 3" dia holes thru railroad tie fence posts from 20 feet.
On game up close, or home defense they'd play royal hell on anything they'd hit.
George

quote:

They would blow 3" dia holes thru railroad tie fence posts from 20 feet.

LOL
Sure they would