I am having a discussion with someone, we want to get an answer to the question, and I feel some of you can help in the question.

Does pressure have any affect on recoil?

We know that recoil's formula is: The recoil of a firearm, both large and small, is a function of the law conservation of momentum and can be stated mathematically as mf·vf = mp·vp from Newton's third law. The equation describes the recoil of a firearm and the user or gun-mount system in its entirety. The action of firing includes the ejecta at any position along the barrel. The equal sign (=) that represents the total thermodynamic energy held within the powder charge. "mf·vf" found on the left side of the equation represents the backwards motion of the firearm or firearm system. "mp·vp" found on the right of the equation represents the forward motion of the ejecta moving down the barrel, before either has left the barrel.

Being pressure is not in the formula for recoil, can you say pressure has ZERO effect on recoil?

Thanks in advance.

I will take the side of it mattering. Just like in a jet engine the more pressure at the nozzle the more power is produced. I would think thats the reason that overbore rounds seem to kick so much. Ive allways though a 300 weatherby kicked like a mule compared to a 338 mag. At least the recoil was alot sharper.

I think pressure and also the anount of "ejecta" both have an effect on recoil.

As an example I find the 458 Win mag to have more recoil than my 450 No2, even though I am getting a little more velocity than the 458.

Also the 470's I have shot also have more recoil than my 450 No2, which operates at less pressure.

By the same token, loads in my 450 No2 with IMR 4831 have more recoil than loads with RL 15.

could this be the reason as to why my 45/70 seems to kick harder than my 300wsm being that the 45/70 operates at less pressure than the 300wsm does? I havent used any handloads in either of them as of yet. jet engine versus twin prop more thrust quicker take off?

I would say no. It is the weight of the boolit, the weight of the powder and the velocity it is driven.
If you notice the .22 varmint rifles have very high pressure with nil recoil. Even the little .22 rimfire has high pressure.
Chamber pressure pushes evenly in all directions, not straight back.
Load a big case with bullseye and toilet paper. Pressure might be high enough to blow up the gun but there is no recoil.

Actually the jet engine is a bit of an apple in an orange story. Newton's third law of motion states that for ever action, there's an equal and opposite REACTION. That's why scope mounts come loose and shoulders turn purple. The jet works on this principle however the interal workings of a jet may better describe the recoil variances you describe. A jet intake is a convergent duct, a cone shape if you will, with rotor blades pulling air in. As it travels rearward, the pressure intensifies as air is being compressed. It gets to the combustion area, however where the velocities of this compressed air would blow out the "candle". To eliminate that, the convergent duct is replaced by a divergent one. This slows the velocity of the compressed air but increases the Pressure (velocity and pressure vary inversely). Fuel is added and lit off. Since the convergent duct in front won't allow the expanded (heated) air to move forward, it is then pushed through a convergent nozzle against a turbine that will spin the compressor in front. Again, however, pressure is needed to propel the jet, so the second convergent duct is vented into a divergent duct. This "pressure" produces the thrust of a jet engine. The pressure of the hyper heated air pushing against ambien air creates the phenomenon of Newton's law.

Bullshit aside, the Weatherby 300 is a bottle necked round that concentrates the explosive gasses against the bullet. That action/reaction is greater than there .458 simply because of a great force being expelled against a smaller surface area. The exact amount of recoil varies with each round. It takes less force to drive a 200 grain round than it would a 700 grain round AT THE SAME SPEED.

The laws of physics are inviolate and as much as we may not agree with their application and definition of them, we still can't change them.

REDHAWK 1

You know pressure goes hand in hand with velocity hence momentum just like I do. Don't let the idiotic stuff from the other site get you down. I have had it happen to me on other subjects by someone who should know better.
just let them wallow in the limitations of their own world and forget it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
I will take the side of it mattering. Just like in a jet engine the more pressure at the nozzle the more power is produced. I would think thats the reason that overbore rounds seem to kick so much. Ive allways though a 300 weatherby kicked like a mule compared to a 338 mag. At least the recoil was alot sharper.

An Amen on the 300 Weatherby.My 375h&H has less felt recoil!!!

quote:

Originally posted by mr.pepper:
could this be the reason as to why my 45/70 seems to kick harder than my 300wsm being that the 45/70 operates at less pressure than the 300wsm does? I havent used any handloads in either of them as of yet. jet engine versus twin prop more thrust quicker take off?

I would say it is directly because you are pushing more mass with the 45-70.

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
REDHAWK 1

You know pressure goes hand in hand with velocity hence momentum just like I do. Don't let the idiotic stuff from the other site get you down. I have had it happen to me on other subjects by someone who should know better.
just let them wallow in the limitations of their own world and forget it.

I know, but I like to hear what other have to say on the subject.

Thanks for your input.

REDHAWK1: I will give an example of how some people live their lives.
Awhile back a neighbor boy came to the door selling chocholate bars and asked if I wanted to buy one. Me being a very nice person and loving chocholate I said yes let me get my billfold. I had on lounging pants which I only carry a big tactical folder in without a billfold.
I went to the bedroom to get it and low and behold iI( couldn't find it. No where could it be seen. I looked the house over. WHERE is my Billfold? I could not see it in the house anywhere. I asked the nice boy, me being nice and a lover of chocholate, to save me two plain ones and come back later after I found my billfold. He said okay. I looked again in the bedroom, the last place I had it as it was in my jeans when I took them off to get into the lounging pants so I could lounge.
At that time since I did not see it in the bedroom I made a declaration out loud to myself that "the billfold is not in this room".
I was wrong. After searching the house again in despare and desperation I then returned to the bedroom just happened to look down and what to my surprize, I spied my billfold laying on the gun cabinet just in front of the door in its darkness of its corner.
Now me continuously looking for it was my symbolism of using education to learn more information.
A stubborn hardheaded person that thinks they are right without fail would have looked one time, not seen it and then declare since is not seen or heard it is not here and I refuse to accept any other input spoken, thought, suggested or otherwise since I am right and that settles that no matter what over whelming eveidence there is to the contrary. thinking
I am King and lord over my mind and nothing shall convince me otherwise.
Just like because there is no pressure value in the recoil equation the pressure must not exist and therefore does not have anything to do with velocity which does have something to do with momentum.

Get my drift?

I did get my chocholate bars but the little wiseinheimer sold the last two plain ones and i have to by two with almonds in them which I ate with a voracious appetite.

........ I don,t know about exact numerical amounts of recoil , but the 45 Colt pushing a 300 gr bullet @ 1200 fps is much pleasanter to shoot than a 44 mag pushing the same bullet weight at the same velocity ,,, so I do think pressure does have an effect on recoil ... I also agree with the 338 over the 300 Whby example ..Even the 375 is easier to shoot than a 300 whby IMO ...

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
REDHAWK1: I will give an example of how some people live their lives.
Awhile back a neighbor boy came to the door selling chocholate bars and asked if I wanted to buy one. Me being a very nice person and loving chocholate I said yes let me get my billfold. I had on lounging pants which I only carry a big tactical folder in without a billfold.
I went to the bedroom to get it and low and behold iI( couldn't find it. No where could it be seen. I looked the house over. WHERE is my Billfold? I could not see it in the house anywhere. I asked the nice boy, me being nice and a lover of chocholate, to save me two plain ones and come back later after I found my billfold. He said okay. I looked again in the bedroom, the last place I had it as it was in my jeans when I took them off to get into the lounging pants so I could lounge.
At that time since I did not see it in the bedroom I made a declaration out loud to myself that "the billfold is not in this room".
I was wrong. After searching the house again in despare and desperation I then returned to the bedroom just happened to look down and what to my surprize, I spied my billfold laying on the gun cabinet just in front of the door in its darkness of its corner.
Now me continuously looking for it was my symbolism of using education to learn more information.
A stubborn hardheaded person that thinks they are right without fail would have looked one time, not seen it and then declare since is not seen or heard it is not here and I refuse to accept any other input spoken, thought, suggested or otherwise since I am right and that settles that no matter what over whelming eveidence there is to the contrary. thinking
I am King and lord over my mind and nothing shall convince me otherwise.
Just like because there is no pressure value in the recoil equation the pressure must not exist and therefore does not have anything to do with velocity which does have something to do with momentum.

Get my drift?

Sure do...

None of you have entered in the guns weight. I shot thousands of rounds from a .300 Weatherby Mark V with a 26" "B" barrel that didn't kick much worse then a 30-06.
A heavy boolit load from the 45-70 Marlin guide gun will rattle your teeth. From my Browning BPCR, the same loads are tame however my slow black powder loads with low pressure will blacken the shoulder in short order.
All of you are comparing apples and oranges again.
Take two calibers in the same weight guns, one large with heavy boolits and one small with light boolits, both at exactly the same chamber pressure. Which one kicks harder?
Now take the small caliber with 2 loads, one high pressure and one low. Which kicks harder? Why of course, the one going faster will but is it the pressure itself or the fact the boolit is being pushed faster?
Take any gun and load a heavy boolit, then a light boolit, both at the same pressure, which kicks more?
Jet effect??? What happens to pressure as soon as the boolit leaves the bore? Does it sit there and push on you like a jet engine? It seems to me that it drops to zero right now. Recoil is pushing on you before the boolit leaves, not after.
What some are saying is that once I pull the trigger on my .475, the barrel will stay on target without moving until the boolit leaves, then the jet of gas from the muzzle will kick me. That means as I change boolit weights, the POI will never change because it is the pressure that is causing the recoil, not the ejecta.
Load a gun with fast powder, then a slow powder, both with the same boolit and chamber pressure, which kicks more? The one with the slow powder because you are pushing more weight down the bore.
Funny that my flintlocks are not pushing my guns sideways when the jet of gas escapes from the touch holes.
Chamber pressure only changes recoil when you increase it to speed up the boolit or use a heavier boolit. The only ways to increase back thrust.

bfrshooter, you are correct about the pressure at the muzzle. It does drop to zero after having imparted velocity on the bullet. Now the bullet will continue along Newton's FIRST Law of Motion stating that an object at rest will continue at rest or an object in motion will remain in motion unless effected by some external force. That external force is always gravity, but if something obstructs that path (like a moose or a hog, etc.) then the velocity will be stopped and the pressure it took to accelerate it to that speed MINUS GRAVITY AND AIR FRICTION, will be changed into energy expelled within the target. Call it hydrostatic shock, fission, or just whoop ass pounding, the target will feel these effects.

That's why muzzle velocity, energy, recoil, atmospheric conditions, and as you stated, weight of the gun play interlocking roles in all this. Sometimes it doesn't seem reasonable, but that's how physics works.

You must also look at the burn rate and expansion ratio of the powder.
Here are a few examples; .38 with 140 gr bullet, 9.5 gr's of 2400 will give you 1028 fps at 19,400 cup. 5.4 gr's of Unique will give you 981 fps at 19,400 cup.
How about the 110 gr .357 bullet with 12.5 gr's of Blue Dot for 1480 fps at 37,200 cup. 8.6 gr's of Unique for 1312 fps at 38,000 cup.
There are a million examples of an increase of chamber pressure that actually creates less velocity.
Seems to me that less velocity means less recoil.
I have worked many loads over the chronograph where each increase in powder increased velocity until a point was reached where velocity gains slowed, became static and then decreased with each increase in charge.
There is just no connection between pressure and recoil unless a velocity increase is also there.
I would never make a blanket statement that each increase in pressure will increase recoil.
You can blow up a gun with Bullseye at a velocity nowhere near what a slow powder will give you at a much lower pressure with more recoil.
With most powders it takes a large increase in pressure for a small gain in velocity too.

quote:

Chamber pressure pushes evenly in all directions, not straight back. Load a big case with bullseye and toilet paper. Pressure might be high enough to blow up the gun but there is no recoil.

It would appear that among the physics experts here that bfrshooter is the only one that understands how it really is.

And, how does an ion engine work in space? How much pressure? How much recoil?

THE questionwas an I quote

"Does pressure have any affect on recoil?"

The question does not say:

Does pressure have any affect on recoil and can everyone name how many influences goes along with recoil such as burn rate, gun weight, stock shape, the dark or light of the moon, recoil pad or not, or muzzle brake or not.

The question was and still is:

"DOES PRESSURE HAVE ANY AFFECT ON RECOIL?"

Now that it has been clairfied (made clear I hope) what is the answer

Yeah Yeah we know that there is probably 999,999.9999 other things that inflence it too but the question was and still is:

"DOES PRESSURE HAVE ANY AFFECT ON RECOIL?"

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Chamber pressure pushes evenly in all directions, not straight back. Load a big case with bullseye and toilet paper. Pressure might be high enough to blow up the gun but there is no recoil.

It would appear that among the physics experts here that bfrshooter is the only one that understands how it really is.

And, how does an ion engine work in space? How much pressure? How much recoil?

Are you one of the physics experts here?

I thought if you are so sure that one person here is correct, you must be one of the physics experts yourself and could elaborate one the question that was asked...
"Does pressure have any affect on recoil?"

quote:

I thought if you are so sure that one person here is correct, you must be one of the physics experts yourself and could elaborate one the question that was asked...

It actually doesn't take much elaboration. I will give a very simple illustration since my previous one was a bit out of this world.

Go to your local dive shop and buy or rent a scuba tank. Have the tank filled with air. The tank will than be holding a pressure of a bit over 2,000 psi. Hold the tank. Carry it around for an hour, a day or a week and see if there is any recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

I thought if you are so sure that one person here is correct, you must be one of the physics experts yourself and could elaborate one the question that was asked...

It actually doesn't take much elaboration. I will give a very simple illustration since my previous one was a bit out of this world.

Go to your local dive shop and buy or rent a scuba tank. Have the tank filled with air. The tank will than be holding a pressure of a bit over 2,000 psi. Hold the tank. Carry it around for an hour, a day or a week and see if there is any recoil.

We are not talking scuba tanks, we are talking recoil in firearms. The scuba tank is not designed to propel a bullet down a chamber. A poor example how pressure works in my opinion. A scuba tank is an example of pressure at rest.
You need to turn in your physics expert card, or get re certified. lol (JOKE)

I think you are not grasping the concept of how pressure works in firearms.

I am looking at the example that bfrshooter used.
"Load a big case with bullseye and toilet paper. Pressure might be high enough to blow up the gun but there is no recoil."

You would not build up sufficient pressure to blow up the gun, you have no resistance, without resistance you have no pressure and therefor you have no recoil. It is like loading black powder in a muzzleloader and not putting a bullet in it, firing off a primer, and the only thing that happens is the powder ignites and makes a expensive roman candle.

My take on it is like this. Yes the formula of recoil in a firearm does not include pressure in it. But without the pressure from the ignited powder you have nothing.
Something has to get newton's law into motion. The ignition of the powder from the primer, sets the wheels in motion, now you have the ignition, the resistance of the bullet in the case allows pressure to build up, and then it propels the bullet down the barrel.
Now you have recoil, change any variable and you change the recoil, such as gun weight, bullet weight or powder charge. I am not talking using different powders, sticking with the same powder.
In the reloading manuals, you will see pressure rises with more powder. As you increase powder in a case the pressure raises and in turn more recoil is produced.

I have read about high pressure rounds such as .22 varmint rifles, 22-250 220 Swift. With them being compared to a high pressure round such as a 454 Casull. And if pressure was related to recoil, why does the 454 Casull have more recoil with almost the same pressure. I believe the recoil of the 454 Casull is a lot more than the .22 varmint rifles, because of the weight of the bullets in the 454 Casull compared to the .22 varmint rifles. There is a lot of other variables such as the platform that each is shot out of.

But let use the same platform, an Encore handgun. Use the same frame and forend and keep the gun weight the same, use a 15 inch barrel, now take a 454 Casull and a 220 Swift and shoot them both using the same platform. The pressure being close, the 454 Casull will recoil far more than the 220 Swift, because of more bullet weight. The bullet weight being the variable that make the 454 Casull with the same pressure recoil more than a 220 Swift.

So my question is, how is pressure not related to recoil?

Thanks for all the comments, it keeps me always looking and interested in how stuff works.

I am not a physics experts here and will never claim to be.

Grumulkin, now you've become condescending and that's not the intent of the post. Your scuba tank comparison is just plain silly. If I carried around 100 pounds of C4, it wouldn't have any recoil either. Set that tank down on the ground and take a sledge hammer and break the valve off or put a piece of det cord in the C$ and light it. Tell me what happens then. As for as "recoil" operating in all directions when a round is fired, thats patently incorrect. PRESSURES may be exerted in all directions, but recoil (the REACTION spoken by Newton's law) will only take place in the opposite direction of the ACTION (the bullet being moved down the barrel).

Redhawk, your original statement was WAY too general and my answer to it is still NO.
Now you have changed to only one scenario with one gun, one bullet, one powder with increases in the load so the answer to that would be YES.
Still realize that if you increase pressure and velocity continues to increase, recoil will go up. But if velocity does not go up, and it can happen, then pressure itself must be removed from the statement.
The original statement would be better served by saying that as velocity goes up, will recoil go up? Of course the answer is yes.
Chamber pressure in itself will not guarantee higher velocity, only how long it acts on the bullet before fizzling out.
If you increase a charge to the point it can't all burn in the barrel, pressure goes up because you are pushing more weight down the bore. The expansion of what burns in the bore is not enough to increase the velocity and a lot of powder burns in front of the muzzle and is wasted.
My gripe with short barrels! You can have a high initial chamber pressure but can not utilize the potential of all the powder because it is blown out into the air. Go to a faster powder and you can get more velocity but then you don't need the larger case that has more air space, can reduce chamber pressure and actually give less velocity then shorter brass will give you.
Pressure is flighty so I stand by what I say. The answer is both yes and no!
It depends on how you present the question.

bfrshooter, "velocity" has no energy. By definition velocity is simply speed without power. "Pressure" conversely IS energy being expelled, whether reactive or non-reactive. Pressure is inside Grumulkin's scuba tank but only be being expelled, with the velocity of the escaping gas create any energy. You simply can't segregate one of those physical phenomenons by itself to make a point.

As a group, it's obvious we will never agree on this subject. Like religion and politics, we'd probably be wiser to stay away from the topic and just be RESULTS ORIENTED. Anytime you shoot a gun, whether it's an air rifle or a 700TRex, there's going to be recoil. Whether that recoil is "tolerable" is up to each individual and how much they enjoy punishing themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I would say no. It is the weight of the boolit, the weight of the powder and the velocity it is driven.
If you notice the .22 varmint rifles have very high pressure with nil recoil. Even the little .22 rimfire has high pressure.
Chamber pressure pushes evenly in all directions, not straight back.
Load a big case with bullseye and toilet paper. Pressure might be high enough to blow up the gun but there is no recoil.

Put perfectly

REDHAWK1 did not ask abouts the possibilities affecting pressure hence affecting velocity therefore affecting recoil he knows there are possibilities.
I am sure he knows that or I hope he isn't that stupid.
One simple question can go down hill quicker than toilet paper down a commode
WHAT is MORE LIKELY to happen THAN NOT?
It is possible that one of us could get hit by lightning on 9-10-2015 at 2:48 PM.
Good grief just answer the question people.

My head hurts!!!

I do enjoy this thread, it get's people thinking. What else do we have to do on such a crappy day on the east coast.

Me_Plat, I hope I am not that stupid...

Olbiker, I agree. Why is it so hard to separate pressure from recoil?
George, if velocity has no energy, then a baseball going 90 mph and hitting you in the chest will not hurt any more then one going 1 mph, is that correct? It seems to me that anything with velocity has energy and the faster it goes, the more energy it has. I suppose you will say I am wrong!
Pressure is what applies the energy to the bullet which then acquires that energy, not counting losses of course. In a perfect situation no energy would be lost but since that is not the case and much energy is wasted FROM THE PRESSURE being applied to the bullet in the form of heat, expansion, friction, air pressure in front of the bullet and even obturation of the bullet, there is no free lunch. Increasing pressure is no guarantee that the bullet will go faster and increase recoil.
Let's take the case of the scuba tank. It STORES energy the same as gunpowder stores energy. Nether does work until released either by opening a valve or with fire. How would you get more energy from either? By increasing the size of the tank or by using more powder. Volume increase. But if you just open the air tank valve for 10 psi, it does no more work then the small tank, it just lasts longer. Gunpowder can and does do the same thing under certain conditions.
I guess I will quit here because guys are starting to lose common sense!

Thank you for proving my point bfrshooter. The ball HAS TO HIT ME IN THE CHEST. Otherwise energy would be expelled on ambient air and the ball would simply fall to the ground before that friction stopped it from rolling. Velocity is only velocity until the MASS of the object traveling meets some RESISTANCE.

Your story on the .22 got me laughing. A neighbor of mine was trying to convince his wife that she could shoot his .22 and that it wouldn't "kick" like she saw shotguns do. To prove his point, he held the Stevens bolt action up with a Stinger .22 LR cartridge up with one hand and put the buttstock on his nose. He touched it off and crushed his nose. With two black eyes and a nose brace, he tried to convince others that he'd fallen. If you don't think a .22 has recoil, would you try that trick and see if he really might have fallen instead. Let us know how it works out.

Oh nuts, I have to respond to this! It is just too darn funny!
The guy got what he deserved being so stupid.
Thanks for the humor.

Going back to the original question:
"Does pressure have any affect on recoil?"

When we look up the definiton of the word ANY as adverd and AFFECT as a transitive verb we get:

REDHAWK1 DID NOT use the words ONLY AFFECT he used ANY AFFECT (see definitions below)

ANY
3 entries found.






Main Entry: 3any Function: adverb Date: 14th century
: to any extent or degree : at all <was never any good> <no, it doesn't help me any>



AFFECT
3 entries found.






Main Entry: 3affect Function: transitive verb Etymology: Middle English, from affectus, past participle of afficere Date: 15th century
: to produce an effect upon: as a: to produce a material influence upon or alteration in <paralysis affected his limbs> b: to act upon (as a person or a person's mind or feelings) so as to effect a response : influence
usage see effect
— af·fect·abil·i·ty \-ˌfek-tə-ˈbi-lə-tē\ noun
— af·fect·able \-ˈfek-tə-bəl\ adjective
synonyms affect, influence, touch, impress, strike, sway mean to produce or have an effect upon. affect implies the action of a stimulus that can produce a response or reaction <the sight affected her to tears>. influence implies a force that brings about a change (as in nature or behavior) <our beliefs are influenced by our upbringing>. touch may carry a vivid suggestion of close contact and may connote stirring, arousing, or harming <plants touched by frost> <his emotions were touched by her distress>. impress stresses the depth and persistence of the effect <only one of the plans impressed him>. strike, similar to but weaker than impress, may convey the notion of sudden sharp perception or appreciation <struck by the solemnity of the occasion>. sway implies the acting of influences that are not resisted or are irresistible, with resulting change in character or course of action <politicians who are swayed by popular opinion>.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Olbiker, I agree. Why is it so hard to separate pressure from recoil?
George, if velocity has no energy, then a baseball going 90 mph and hitting you in the chest will not hurt any more then one going 1 mph, is that correct? It seems to me that anything with velocity has energy and the faster it goes, the more energy it has. I suppose you will say I am wrong!
Pressure is what applies the energy to the bullet which then acquires that energy, not counting losses of course. In a perfect situation no energy would be lost but since that is not the case and much energy is wasted FROM THE PRESSURE being applied to the bullet in the form of heat, expansion, friction, air pressure in front of the bullet and even obturation of the bullet, there is no free lunch. Increasing pressure is no guarantee that the bullet will go faster and increase recoil.
Let's take the case of the scuba tank. It STORES energy the same as gunpowder stores energy. Nether does work until released either by opening a valve or with fire. How would you get more energy from either? By increasing the size of the tank or by using more powder. Volume increase. But if you just open the air tank valve for 10 psi, it does no more work then the small tank, it just lasts longer. Gunpowder can and does do the same thing under certain conditions.
I guess I will quit here because guys are starting to lose common sense!

I guess you are the only one making common sense to yourself.

Well it has be entertaining to say the least.

I am throwing the ball back in your court Redhawk and Me_Plat.
Since pressure ONLY controls whether velocity is high or low and velocity and mass are the only things needed to figure recoil, please post your mathematical formulas for recoil including pressure.
You might want to go one step further and post your formulas for muzzle energy that includes chamber pressure.
That ends THIS post!

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I am throwing the ball back in your court Redhawk and Me_Plat.
Since pressure ONLY controls whether velocity is high or low and velocity and mass are the only things needed to figure recoil, please post your mathematical formulas for recoil including pressure.
You might want to go one step further and post your formulas for muzzle energy that includes chamber pressure.
That ends THIS post!

I don't have mathematical formulas for recoil including pressure. If I did they would of been posted.

Show me where pressure do not matter. Balls back in your court.

I know you don't have a formula because there IS NONE because it has no effect other then to change velocity. Velocity and mass are the ONLY things needed to figure recoil and there is no way to add pressure to the equation.
I have nothing to prove! You do, however because you say that pressure DOES effect recoil, so please show all of us.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I know you don't have a formula because there IS NONE because it has no effect other then to change velocity. Velocity and mass are the ONLY things needed to figure recoil and there is no way to add pressure to the equation.
I have nothing to prove! You do, however because you say that pressure DOES effect recoil, so please show all of us.

I have, you just don't want to beleave it.
So I guess we have nothing further to discuss.

None of you have shown proof, only opinions.
I think this post was started just to creat arguments.

Worked didn't it bfrshooter?

But in reality, you've been given all the "proof" there is with the physical laws of nature. It just seems that some people are like those talking about evolution: you either accept the evidence in front of you or you ignore it and continue to believe what you will. I don't envision you and a few others of ever accepting the laws of physics, so maybe to keep the peace, we should each be satisfied in our own beliefs without impressing them on others.