Is it a good, bad or indifferent idea?

Much of the talk here is about the heavies or the loads found on the higher end of the spectrum. But, for this, I'm interested in opinions about the lower end on two calibers, 45 LC and 44. In the case of the 44, it's a 44-40 and the weight will be 200 gr.

Also, I'm not a handloader, so it's strictly off-the-shelf ready-to-run ammo under consideration (unfortunately). Well, custom loads are possible, but someone else would have to do them.

The deal is I'm a long time deer hunter but have used only 41 and 44 magnums. We all know the results with those.

The question is, how low can the velocity be dropped and not wind up trying to follow a blood trail in the deep woods.

That's about it. Any helpful advice would be appreciated especially from those who've actually used guns like the 3rd Gen. Colts.

But, I'll add this to make it clear what I'm attempting to accomplish. I know of course that it has a bad ending for the deer either way, but I want it to look more like the "bang flop" I've been used to so far. Can you get that without magnum velocities?

Yes, you can get good results with lower velocity 45LC or 44-40. You must do two things....pick your shots and use heavy for caliber bullets at moderate velocities. This means no texas heart shots but carefully aimed shots into the vitals at fairly close range, say within 50-75 yards. In addition, use well constructed jacketed or hard cast bullets a bit on the heavy side to ensure adequate penetration..meaning no 180gr jacketed and at least a 200-210gr in 44-40 and 240-250gr in 45LC OR the same to slighly heavier in hard cast. The key is picking your shots and keeping the range reasonable for the load capability. Unfortunately, in the 44-40 your choices are much slimmer than that of the 45LC. Remember, pioneers have been killing game for the pot with these very cartridges long before magnum velocities were attained. Good luck and this is just one man's opinion.

Woodrow just gave you some excellent advice!

Dick

When I started handgun hunting a few years ago, I started with a 45 Colt loaded with LBT 265 WFNGC's over 20gr of 4227 which isn't a magnum load and is listed as Colt safe by Taffin. To be 100% honest, it worked as well as any of my 480 or 475's on whitetail. Maybe even a little bit better than the 44 loaded with 300gr boolits.

Thanks for the responses. I may try it. Probably at very close range. I can't take this too far out anyway, because of the fixed sights and now less than perfect vision. And I couldn't agree more about picking the shots. As I see it, that slight margin for error you can get out of a magnum is totally lacking here.

I've done some shopping for ammo and what I'm finding in .45 that's shootable from a Colt SAA are loads from Win, Hornady and Black Hills. There are probably others. I don't know.

Hornady has a 255 which generates 725 muzzle fps out of a 4.75", which is what I have. That's the civilian length or also the so-called gunfighter length barrel. Black Hills has a 230 gr at 730. These are what's known as cowboy loads.

Win does it a little better. Their current load is a 255 at 850 out of a 5 1/2". This duplicates the old, traditional loading. They also have a 225 @ 920. I imagine one could flip a coin between those two.

In 44-40 we've got lack of choice problems as Woodrow pointed out.

Win makes this ammo, but it's not cheap. Black Hills is what I'm now using and it's a 200 grainer @ 800 (probably closer to 700 from my 4.75"). Hornady also has it in a 205 @ 725 out of a 7 1/2". Those are strictly cowboy loads. The "original" Win load was about 950 fps. They download those these days because of so many old guns around. And of course, the original was more potent also because it was typically used on game out of a rifle. That made a big difference. With that the fps was up in the 4 figures.

Anyway, I just got ivories made for the nickel Frontier Six Shooter (44-40) and they're gorgeous. "Turn of the Century" style carved steer head on one side, which makes a perfect palm swell to round out the hold. And on the range, it's 6 at 15 yds thru a 1" hole in the center. Thus, we're itching to try it afield. I just don't want to make a big mess with it for sake of getting to hunt with a gun of that type...

My understanding is that cowboy loads are loaded down so you can get on target faster as you are shooting in a timed event.You only need enough energy to topple a steel target or a piece of paper.Real factory loads in the Old West were closer to 900 FPS in a 45 Colt.A good all around velocity that would handle everything from 2 legged varmints to a Elk.

Last fall a poster on the 24HR Campfire posted a very very nice mule deer buck he had shot with a 5.5" Colt New Frontier using Speer Gold Dot 200 grain JHP .44 Special loads. They are listed as 860 from a 6.5" barrel.

He didn't note the distance and never answered the question of how the deer reacted when hit or how far it went after the hit...

Cowboy loads will kill a deer, it is just a question of how long before it goes down. Maybe Bang-Flop or may be an all day trailing. The only thing I would want is to make sure the bullet is going to get out the other side...with a 200 grain FP at 800 fps it is going to be close...

Bob

quote:

with a 200 grain FP at 800 fps it is going to be close...

Yes, close. Probably too close at least for me. Although I do hear about guys who take deer locally with their cowboy loads. The problem for me though is, I insist on a bang-flop kill.

And I agree you want something capable of complete penetration.

In past years I've had to stop my hunt early and come on down out of the stand and spend the entire rest of the day helping someone attempt to find a blood trail, let alone their deer, in the deep woods. Usually without success. I find myself asking them, "are you REALLY sure you hit that deer" and "now what exact part of the deer did you hit".

Anyway, for cowboy loads I believe for this project it has to be a very small deer, VERY close and standing still, and, with a scoped rifle in my lap as "insurance".

When I first started Bow hunting, a good friend told me to bring an apple. After shooting the deer, sit down and eat the apple. This will give the deer some time to lay down and bleed out, then go collect it.