I just got a custom shop S&W 625 in .45 acp I wanted to try reloading some 45 auto rim to use on FL. Whitetail(most deer are under 100# shot at under 50 yrds) Can someone suggest bullet type and possible loads. Or tell me I'm nucking futs for even considering the idea..DD

I shoot a 255 cast SWC and 7.0 grains of Unique in my Mountain Gun. This bullet gets about 30" penetration in wet newsprint and is very accurate. Should do just fine on small whitetail.

What MS said. I load a 225 gn SWC in 45 ACP and use it out of my bow stand for freezer does. Never took more than one shot. This year I'll be changing from a P 90 to the new Ruger 345..............JJ

Dangerous Dave
As a long time S&W 45ACP/Auto Rim Revolver user I have some info for you.

Once upon a time there was a factory load that duplicated the 45 Long Colt.
Also in the Speer Loading Manuals numbers 6,7 and 8 they show the following loads.
I caution you to start low and work up.

240 grain cast bullet
Starting load 13 grains of 2400, velocity 1006 fps.

Max load 15 grains 2400, velocity 1192 fps.

WARNING: TODAYS ALIANT 2400 MAY BE A LITTLE FASTER BURNING THAN THE OLD 2400.

In Speer Number 8 they show:
Speer 200 grain Soft point,
Starting load 12 grains SR 4756, velocity 1129 fps.
Max load 14 grains 4756, velocity 1345 fps.

Unique Powder:
Starting load 10 grains 1182 fps.
Max load 11.5 grains Unique velocity 1330 fps.
All loads in Auto Rim Brass ONLY.

Remember start low and work up.

Let us know how load development goes.

quote:

In Speer Number 8 they show:
Speer 200 grain Soft point,
Starting load 12 grains SR 4756, velocity 1129 fps.
Max load 14 grains 4756, velocity 1345 fps.

Unique Powder:
Starting load 10 grains 1182 fps.
Max load 11.5 grains Unique velocity 1330 fps.
All loads in Auto Rim Brass ONLY.

With all due respect, NE, there is no way on this earth I would load and shoot one of those loads. I MIGHT contact Speer and ask them about running pressure tests on that load and then depending on what they tell me, try the load. (I suspect they would tell me in no uncertain terms I am nuts to even ask!)
The capabilities of reading pressure are much more refined this day and age, and I would use a new loading manual. Here's why:

The #8 Speer manual lists a starting load of 7.0 grains and a max load of 8 grains of Unique for their 200 grain SWC. By the time the #11 Speer manual was developed, the same load data had been reduced from the above to a starting load of 5.0 grains and a max of 5.5 grains of Unique. The same load is listed in both their #12 and #13 manuals.

Additionally, the #11 manual has this disclaimer in the 45 AR description: "Owners of the more modern S&W Models 1950 and 1955 may be accustomed to using heavier loads than shown here, but should be warned to do so with caution." That caution, somewhat of a "well, go ahead", is absent in all subsequent loading manuals from Speer.

The last thing I would say is this: the #13 manual doesn't list the 200 grain JSP, but it lists the 200 grain JHP. And load data for Unique is 6.5 grains to start, 7.0 max. The test firearm is the Model 25-2, a plenty stout revolver, in my estimation.

If you want a 45 Colt, buy one. I just cannot recommend trying to take the 45 Auto Rim and turn it into a Colt. It just isn't worth the risk.

Doubless
No offense taken.
It is widely known that Latter Speer manuals "wimped out" on loads for several different calibers.

Back when Speer manuals 5,6,and 8 were published we were MANLY MEN and did MANLY THINGS.

I gave published info, with adequate warnings.
I would not have given the info if:
1. I had not used it myself.
And:
2. If his AR handle would have been Wimpy Dave.
The Speer Manuals quoted state that the 2400 loads showed no signs of high pressure.
I would not use these loads in a WWII ACP revolver.
The 200 grain lead loads are for bullseye competition shooters.
The Colt 45 ACP semi-auto has an unsupported chamber, not so with a modern S&W revolver.

Elmer Kieth's favorite heavy load for the ACP revolver was a 240 or 250 cast bullet with 7.5 grains of Unique.

The bottom line is Start Low and work up.
For heavy loads in the Auto Rim I would only use bullets that had a crimping grove, and use a heavy roll crimp, as in any Magnum revolver to hold the bullets in the case under recoil.

I do not believe in making a 45 Auto Rim into a 44 mag, but I feel the S&W can take the loads listed with out problem if you work up to them.
I used the Speer 225 grain jacketed in my revolver quite a bit at these load levels without problems.

The load I shoot lumbers along at around 750 fps. I do not believe this overly stresses the revolver and it performs well.

Speer has gotten softer in this age of ambulance chasers and people who do not or can not read and follow instructions.

NE is 100% correct. I have been loading for the .45 AR for close to 30 years and have never had a problem in the two 25-2s that I have owned. One has to remember that the AR as loaded to SAAMI specs was intended for the weakest common revolver at the time which is the old WWI S&W and Colt revolvers. On that basis one should not even be using standard .45 ACP ammo in a .45 AR revolver as the pressure rating is higher. I have read posters on other boards who have been shooting not only .45 SUPERS but .460 Roland ammo in their new M25s. The new guns can easily take loads that would have rattled the old guns to pieces.

Loads that I have persoanlly used in my guns:

Speer 200 JHP with 11.0 grains of SR4756 for 1307 fps.

Speer 200 grain JHP with 10 grains of SR4756 for 1208 fps.

Sierra 185 gr. JHP with 11.5 grains of SR4756 at 1162 fps.

Speer 225 grain HP with 10.0 grains of SR4756..not chrongraphed.

When I was commercially loading I made up some .45 Colt rounds for a number of officers who used the S&W 25-5 as a duty gun. The load pushed a 200 grain Speer HP at 1170 fps and a 225 Speer JHP at 1140 fps from a 4" barrel. Two different officers killed bucks with the 200 grain load from their 6" barreled guns. Both officers said the deer dropped in their tracks.

Work loads up slowly and GET A CHRONOGRAPH...it is very cheap insurance.

Bob

Bob,
I remember those days, yes we were Manly Men.
In our 45 ACP Colt Semi-autos we loaded copious amounts [I do not dare print them here ] of Unique and SR 4756 with 185 to 225 jacketed HP's and H&G 68 cast bullets. We used 24 lb recoil springs.

From memory:
In an early Handloader there is an article titled "The 45 AR Magnum".
The author seated the bullets out increasing the case capacity. If I remember correctly he used HERCO powder, and achieved low end 44 Mag, [same as can be done with a strong 44 special] velocities.

my 625 has seen hundreds of 15 grian of 2400 loads with 255s and its no worse for wear.

I believe it was over on the 24 Hour Campfire today there is a post about having a M625 rechambered by Clark Custom Guns to .460 Roland. Apparently Clark is doing these conversions along with 1911 conversions so the M25/625 must have a little more strength than commonly believed.

Bob

I did some .45 AR work a couple of years ago but can NOT find the data. Used both a 4" 625 and a 6 1/2" 25-2.

Factory .45 AR is loaded on the LOW side for the older evolvers. I couldn't see any reason why in current starline brass in a modern revolver one couldn't come up with a viable deer load.

Not finished searching yet but hunting season is taking my time right now.

FN in MT

Found the 4" M625 data
New Starline .45 AR brass
255 lead SWC ,CCI 300, 7.0 UNIQUE = 950 fps avg

Same load but with RP cases neck tension was erratic velocity varied from 890 to 940 fps with poor accuracy.

6.0 of UNIQUE with 255 LSWC averaged 855 fps and were very accurate with easy extraction. Same load averaged close to 900 fps in the 6 1/2" 25-2. Probably all you would need for smallish deer at close range.

10.0 HERCO ,CCI350, 265 LBT = 1144 fps with good accuracy. Though extraction was not as easy as I'd like. Probably about max.

I love the .45 Auto Rim in my 25-2 and use three hand loads not in the current books: 255 grain hard cast bullets, 14 grains of 2400 or 7 grains of Unique, for my heavy game loads. Hornady 230 grain Jacketed Flat Points with 6.5 grains of Unique seems a good load too. If I want a 200 grain JHP for deer hunting I use 10.5 grains of Blue Dot or 7.3 grains of Unique. The last two loads are from the Speer manual, the earlier ones are from careful load developemnt using a chronograph, lots of research and some use of common sense, as in pressure goes up as the square of the powder charge and soft bullets like Speer swaged lead run the pressure way up there! I have used factory 200 grain Lawman JHPs for deer hunting, 975 fps, full moon clips seem to improve accuracy, with satisfaction. The new Gold Dot should do even better, with today's technology to improve an already good load. Even plain 185 grain JHP+P loads are perfectly adequate for deer. I like two big holes and they only make one, so I've discontinued there use for deer. Great coyote load if the yellow dogs cooperate.

Shot some 7.0 of Unique/255 LSWC loads yesteday in a 4" 625 and my old 25-2. Small whitetails are what 8" thick?? Ten at MOST? Can't see how a 255 SWC at 800-900 fps couldn't work fine.

Deer are not bulletproof despite what the .475/.480 .500 S&W folks seem to think.

I had wanted to take my deer this year with my Freedom Arms but may use the .45 AR just to DO IT.

FN in MT