I'm going to be hunting my first big game animal with a handgun this fall- antelope/454 Casull.

I've been working with the 200gr FTX bullet loaded over H110 in 45 Colt brass. I had to use Colt brass since that bullet seated to the top of the cannelure is right at max length for my SRH. I find no mention of this anywhere here, as this bullet is designed for the 460 S&W, but I imagine that I can't be the only guy working with this combination.

Anybody else doing/done this? I've gotten very acceptable accuracy results and will be running this load over my chrony soon (I'm guessing 1500fps). My thought in using this bullet is that it will cut the wind better than the FN/HP/SWC design and be a bit faster than the 225 FTX made for the Colt.

Thoughts/critiques...?

I have never shot an antelope, but I cannot imagine they are a lot tougher than whitetail, so that 200 grainer may work well. My misgiving is that a 200 grain .45 bullet is really light and one shouldn't expect a whole lot of penetration. It might work, but.....

Like Whitworth said, it might work and it might not. Personally I would choose a little heavier bullet to insure that I got the necessary penetration. I've not shot this particular bullet, but have had insufficient penetration from lightweight jacketed bullets from .44's and .357's.

If we are talking about pronghorn antelope, they seldom weigh much over 100#. They are a thin skinned animal, and if you are anywhere within 100 yards, you should have no problem driving that 200-grain bullet completely through one, assuming 1200 fps or so at the muzzle.

We are talking pronghorn and 100yd is definitely going to be my max range. I've seen SMK bullets (not ideal, I know) fold them up with no problem.
Anybody know offhand what speed this particular bullet needs to open up? I think the Hornady data starts them around 1900fps. I'm thinking they might behave more like a solid since I'm not going to get that kind of speed.

If they behave like a solid, there are better solids out there. If you are not counting on them opening up due to subduued speeds, might as well erre on the heavier side. JMHO. I'm just not a fan of light for caliber bullets. They tend not to work well when they encounter bone.

Again, just my opinion.

Why are you worried about expansion on a bullet that is already nearly a half-inch in diameter before you pull the trigger?

Also, if 100 yards is your max range, why not just go with a 25-300 grain bullet and you will be assured of complete penetration of your game?

Exactly.

I have shot lots of Speed Goats.They are not particularly hard to kill.However like any animal good shot placement is a must.If you wound one and it gets pumped with adrenaline,the meat will be really funky.The fun part about hunting them with a handgun is the stalk.I try to get inside 100 yds.I would go with a heavier cast bullet.They seem to group better at distance than the lighter jacketed.Just my opinion!!!

well, if they act like a solid this is not good b/c they are pointed and won;t really do much. there's no good reason not to go with the 240 gr xtp, they kill good if they don't open, kill great if they do open, and on an antelope there's not a bone on the body that'll stop em. plus, if you run them fast, there's really not a question of if they'll work, they also fly really flat out to 150 or so. plus there's an abundance of loading info about them and i've used them very very successfully on cow elk before so on a speed goat, no probs.

He's not running them fast.

Pronghorn antelope are small & they are narrow, its not going to take much of a bullet to exit on one.
When they are hit wrong I've seen them run for miles (7 mag) put your bullet in the right place & you won't have any problem.
Myself, I always use cast but the combo you mention will certainly work, & do it easily. If that bullet hits shoulder bones at that velocity its going to pretty much blow the shoulder off & lots of meat will be bloodshot, another reason I like cast!
I've handgunned 6 antelope, biggest caliber I used was a 6.5/284, smallest was a 6 TCU, the smallest caliber worked every bit as good as the biggest!
Dick

yup, my buddy shot a pronghorn with a 300 weatherby and didn't hitthe vitals and chased it nearly 20 miles and had to shoot it again.

I have found several 300 grainers to be quite accurate too. I have not tried the 240 xtp.

I'm not set in stone on these 200gr bullets, it was just my starting point for the reasons stated above (wind mainly). I suppose that at 100yd-ish there might not be as much wind deflection between the light and heavier bullets. Is this correct?

The lighter bullet will be more affected by wind than the heavier bullet.

I'm STUNNED! I just learned that a 200 gr. bullet is "light" and won't give proper penetration! It must have been pure luck that I killed those deer with 45 grain, 70 grain and 115 grain bullets. And that Black Wildebeest I took with a 357 Herrett with a 158 gr. bullet was truly a miraculous kill.

I would like to point out, that wind bucking ability is related to ballistic coefficient and not weight. So, though ballistic coefficient tends to increase with weight, it would be possible for a pointy bullet to have a higher ballistic coefficient than a heavier more blunt bullet.

In addition, if you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, you can crimp bullets that have no cannelure.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I'm STUNNED! I just learned that a 200 gr. bullet is "light" and won't give proper penetration! It must have been pure luck that I killed those deer with 45 grain, 70 grain and 115 grain bullets. And that Black Wildebeest I took with a 357 Herrett with a 158 gr. bullet was truly a miraculous kill.

I would like to point out, that wind bucking ability is related to ballistic coefficient and not weight. So, though ballistic coefficient tends to increase with weight, it would be possible for a pointy bullet to have a higher ballistic coefficient than a heavier more blunt bullet.

In addition, if you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, you can crimp bullets that have no cannelure.

Gee, how fast were you pushing those 45, 70, and 115 grain bullets?

Are you really comparing a 158 grain bullet in .357 Herrett to a 200 grain bullet in .452 caliber?

What's your favorite bullet weight in .45 caliber, and what do you shoot from your .45 revolver, if I may ask? Those 200 grainers are odd. They were meant to be pushed relatively fast, but the OP plans on loading them down.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I'm STUNNED! I just learned that a 200 gr. bullet is "light" and won't give proper penetration! It must have been pure luck that I killed those deer with 45 grain, 70 grain and 115 grain bullets. And that Black Wildebeest I took with a 357 Herrett with a 158 gr. bullet was truly a miraculous kill.

I would like to point out, that wind bucking ability is related to ballistic coefficient and not weight. So, though ballistic coefficient tends to increase with weight, it would be possible for a pointy bullet to have a higher ballistic coefficient than a heavier more blunt bullet.

In addition, if you use a Lee Factory Crimp Die, you can crimp bullets that have no cannelure.

The "Peanut Gallery" not withstanding, I never said it wouldn't or couldn't work. I'm just asking why go with light for caliber bullets. Trying to make it a .454 Swift just doesn't make sense in practical applications. So Grumulkin, don't give up the day job just yet. I don't believe the comedy community is quite ready for you.

1. It was postulated that 200 gr. bullets wouldn't give adequate penetration from a 454 Casull when used on antelope which isn't true. Velocity wasn't brought up initially. Even at 800 fps which would be pretty slow for a 454 Casull, penetration should be more than adequate for antelope.

2. Yes, I am comparing a 158 gr. bullet in a 357 Herrett to a 200 gr. bullet in .452 caliber. If weight is the big issue, then what is the big issue in comparing two bullets of different weights and similar velocities?

3. The bullet I would choose is the one that gave me the best accuracy at the ranges I intended to shoot at. For my Encore in 460 S&W Magnum, that would be Hornady 250 gr. SST/ML bullets going about 2,350 fps which among other things has taken a Red Hartebeest and a Zebra. For my S&W revolver, 325 grain Barnes Buster bullets are showing real promise. I haven't decided what to use in my 454 Casull since I haven't been entirely satisfied with the accuracy I've gotten from any of them. For my 45 Colt I use 250 gr. cast bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
I have never shot an antelope, but I cannot imagine they are a lot tougher than whitetail, so that 200 grainer may work well. My misgiving is that a 200 grain .45 bullet is really light and one shouldn't expect a whole lot of penetration. It might work, but.....

No, this is what I actually said. It's not "just bullet weight" that is the issue -- it's weight for caliber. 200 grains is bloody light for a .45, and not in the same realm as a 158 grain bullet in .357. You know better than to make that comparison. Never said it wouldn't work, but he is loading this bullet into .45 Colt cases and not pushing them even within a thousand feet per second of your contender in .460. Now, if the ranges are kept at 100 yards or less and the velocity is kept on the low side, what is the point of using a lightweight bullet meant for high velocity?

It's a curious choice and not one we are criticizing, just discussing.

Whit is correct, we are discussing, not "Cussing" the choice. Its usually better to error on the heavy side rather than the light weight slugs when hunting big game, even something as small as a pronghorn antelope.
As a rule, if there is such a thing as rules in hunting, a lightweight jacketed slug, especially from a handgun can be a disaster when ran at high velocity. But, there are some exceptions with some of the premium jacketed bullets although I don't trust them. I was raised on cast & they've never failed from any angle. Hey! I have 100 posts, am I still a rookie!
Good luck with the hunt.

Dick

I've seen on more than one occasion a 185 gr. bullet from a .44 mag. not give over 2" penetration on javelinas and small hogs. IMHO a 200 gr. 45 cal. bullet is in the same league as the 185 gr. 44 bullet. I've also seen 125 gr .357 bullets blow up on the surface giving less than 1" penetration when striking a rib bone close to the surface. The antelope that I've shot had bigger bones than a 35 pound javelina. That's why I'm suggesting a heavier bullet. Bullet expansion is nice but adequate penetration is absolutely essential to success.

quote:

Originally posted by Dick Thompson:
Whit is correct, we are discussing, not "Cussing" the choice. Its usually better to error on the heavy side rather than the light weight slugs when hunting big game, even something as small as a pronghorn antelope.
As a rule, if there is such a thing as rules in hunting, a lightweight jacketed slug, especially from a handgun can be a disaster when ran at high velocity. But, there are some exceptions with some of the premium jacketed bullets although I don't trust them. I was raised on cast & they've never failed from any angle. Hey! I have 100 posts, am I still a rookie!
Good luck with the hunt.

Dick

Oh, you're no rookie, Dick!

Typo on my last post. Should have read 110 gr. 357 bullet instead of 125.

I have read this post a few times trying to understand everybodies points they are trying to make.I just have 2 questions,for larger caliber why are you trying to under load it?And are you absolutely sure your shot will be broadside?

I personally think you would be better served,if jacketed is your choice with a 250-300gr projectile.I don't think you could shoot enough at 100yards to prove that the 200grnr flies better.And second weight helps penetration,and animals I have hunted never seem to cooperate with presenting me the "picture perfect broadside shot".So in my opinion prepare for the worst and you'll be more than ready if it comes easier.

Good luck on your antelope quest,let us hear how it turns out,it's one of my bucket list animals.

And Dick T a rookie,that made me hurt myself

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
No, this is what I actually said. It's not "just bullet weight" that is the issue -- it's weight for caliber. 200 grains is bloody light for a .45, and not in the same realm as a 158 grain bullet in .357. You know better than to make that comparison. Never said it wouldn't work, but he is loading this bullet into .45 Colt cases and not pushing them even within a thousand feet per second of your contender in .460. Now, if the ranges are kept at 100 yards or less and the velocity is kept on the low side, what is the point of using a lightweight bullet meant for high velocity?

It's a curious choice and not one we are criticizing, just discussing.

The obvious reason for the choice is that he said he is getting good accuracy with those bullets. Also, talking about thin skinned game, you won't find many more thin skinned than pronghorn. I have no doubt that a fast moving 200 grain bullet will penetrate a pronghorn just fine.

It's true, a pointy bullet isn't really needed for 100 for 200 yard shooting. Also, most handgun hunters are probably not going to be shooting at more than 100 yards anyway but, if a pointed 200 grain bullet gave me the best accuracy, it's what I'd use and if a 300 gr. bullet gave the best accuracy then I'd use that.

I tried 200 gr. bullets meant for 45 Auto loads in my Encore 460 S&W Magnum. Compared to other bullets I tried, they were really pretty good but not as good as the 250 gr. SST/ML bullets I settled on.

I agree that accuracy is first and foremost on the list of importance when choosing a load, but if you flub a shot a bit and have to get through some bone, better to erre on the heavy side in my humble opinion. 200 grains may be perfectly adequate for antelope, I just wouldn't be all that comfortable using a 200 grain bullet in any iteration of the .45 -- but that's just me. I tend to plan for the worst case scenario when choosing my loads.

So, a question: you wouldn't take a 200-grain hard cast bullet for the 45 ACP, jack it up to max velocity in the Colt and shoot an antelope with it at 100 yards? The second Accurate Powder loading manual shows a max load of Accurate #7 giving a velocity of 1254 fps with a 215-grain bullet (Ruger and TC +P load). I will bet the confection of your choice that with judicious loading, you could approach 1300fps mv with the 200, and that is PLENTY! Shoot, the same book shows 1000+ fps with a 200-grain cast Hornady out of the ACP!!

Not for me. I wouldn't waste my time on a 200 grainer -- hardcast, jacketed, gold plated, platinum, whatever. I just think it is too light for caliber -- but that's just me. Nothing wrong with erring on the side of a bit heavier bullet, and I see no reason not to go heavier.

I have a FA in 454 and have never shot anything lighter than a 300gr bullet. Will your 454 even shoot a 200gr bullet accurately out to 100yds? A buddy was playing with lighter bullets in his FA 454 and it wouldn't group them very well compared to the heavier bullet.

My "go to" gun whenever I draw a Colorado Mule Deer Doe tag (or doe antelope) is a very early Ruger w/.45Colt and .45acp cylinders. Loads with the .45 Colt are either 19.5gr 2400 pwdr, or 21.5gr 296 pwdr, and 250gr Sierra HPS to 265gr cast SWCs. Both loads and all the bullets used have never failed me. I've loaded the 200gr bullets for a general walk around load, but don't plan to shoot anything larger than a coyote. Would I take a shot at a doe with the 200gr? Yeah, but I'd prefer to use the heavier bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
My "go to" gun whenever I draw a Colorado Mule Deer Doe tag (or doe antelope) is a very early Ruger w/.45Colt and .45acp cylinders. Loads with the .45 Colt are either 19.5gr 2400 pwdr, or 21.5gr 296 pwdr, and 250gr Sierra HPS to 265gr cast SWCs. Both loads and all the bullets used have never failed me. I've loaded the 200gr bullets for a general walk around load, but don't plan to shoot anything larger than a coyote. Would I take a shot at a doe with the 200gr? Yeah, but I'd prefer to use the heavier bullet.

Very reasonable response, prof242!

Thanks for the responses guys. I've been offline for a few days so I'm catching up on this.
So far, I've only shot those 200 grainers out to 50yd so yes, while they're accurate at that range, I don't yet know how they look at 100.

Here's another question: all things bieng equal, save bullet weight and velocity, will a 300gr bullet at proper Casull speeds fly flatter than that 200 grainer at Colt speeds? Again, I'm only really looking out to 100yd.

I load from 200gr FTX to 405gr Beartooth WLNGC's in my 454 Casull revolvers/rifle I get very good accuracy from all the loads I shoot and I would not hesitate to use a 200gr FTX on deer/antelope...

I am also working on a 14" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45 Colt right now my bullet of choice for it for deer/black bear hunting this fall is the 200gr FTX loaded with 26grs H110 and it is more than accurate for shots on these game animals out to 150 yards.

I unfortunately have been having trouble with my new Shooting Chrony so haven't had a chance to check velocities yet.

I say go for it the 200gr FTX should work perfectly for you...

quote:

Originally posted by cottonstalk:
I have read this post a few times trying to understand everybodies points they are trying to make.I just have 2 questions,for larger caliber why are you trying to under load it?And are you absolutely sure your shot will be broadside?

I personally think you would be better served,if jacketed is your choice with a 250-300gr projectile.I don't think you could shoot enough at 100yards to prove that the 200grnr flies better.And second weight helps penetration,and animals I have hunted never seem to cooperate with presenting me the "picture perfect broadside shot".So in my opinion prepare for the worst and you'll be more than ready if it comes easier.

Good luck on your antelope quest,let us hear how it turns out,it's one of my bucket list animals.

And Dick T a rookie,that made me hurt myself

+1.......

quote:

Originally posted by Dick Thompson:
Whit is correct, we are discussing, not "Cussing" the choice. Its usually better to error on the heavy side rather than the light weight slugs when hunting big game, even something as small as a pronghorn antelope.
As a rule, if there is such a thing as rules in hunting, a lightweight jacketed slug, especially from a handgun can be a disaster when ran at high velocity. But, there are some exceptions with some of the premium jacketed bullets although I don't trust them. I was raised on cast & they've never failed from any angle. Hey! I have 100 posts, am I still a rookie!
Good luck with the hunt.

Dick

+1......


Don't let Dick BS you he has 2 tons of hangun experience

quote:

Posted 11 May 2011 19:55 Hide Post
Whit is correct, we are discussing, not "Cussing" the choice. Its usually better to error on the heavy side rather than the light weight slugs when hunting big game, even something as small as a pronghorn antelope.
As a rule, if there is such a thing as rules in hunting, a lightweight jacketed slug, especially from a handgun can be a disaster when ran at high velocity. But, there are some exceptions with some of the premium jacketed bullets although I don't trust them. I was raised on cast & they've never failed from any angle. Hey! I have 100 posts, am I still a rookie!
Good luck with the hunt.

Dick

Who would I trust? Dick of course. Experience before all else. Others agree.

if ya really want a 200 grain bullet, use the barnes, yeah it's a touch longer but it'll hold up.

my friend had bullet integrity problems with a pronghorn out of a 300 weatherby last year and that was a tougher bullet said by the manufacturer to be good for bear.