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I have a peculiar question for you guys....but maybe one of you has done some "experimenting" with this.  Do any of you know what kind of penetration you could expect on an adult bovine skull with a .45 ACP using standard 230 gr. FMJ ammo? Will it penetrate CONSISTENTLY to the brain? The reason I ask is because I will be hunting Water Buffalo in South Texas next month and plan to carry my 1911 as a sidearm, just in case the shit hits the fan. Surely one of you cattle ranchers has gotten bored and tried this on an already deceased cow (or one that just needed to be dispatched  )...._______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | ||
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Eland Slayer, I think it willbaised on other stuff I have shot... But if you want a little insurance get a box of Buffalo Bore 230gr FP +P, or a box of their 255 gr lead +P. I have shot the 230gr FP in my 1911's and it functioned just fine, even in my light weight Commander. Bottom line is, even if you do not get any of the BB ammo, I would carry the 1911, with standard 230gr ball. I have carried mine in bear country several times, and in pig country, as well, with standard 230 gr ball ammo. I would much rather have it than NO handgun, for sure. Also Massad Ayoob had no problems shooting through the head of steers at the slaughter house with 230gr ball and a 1911. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Did he write an article on this? I'd be interested in reading it.... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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farmers kill 1200lb steers all the time with a 22 lr w/o any problems. | |||
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That may be in one of the books. That reminds me of my bovine adventure .  My friend raised goats and mostly the young ones were sold in the spring .But then he had lots of milk so he got calves and fed them a straight diet of goat milk .A lot of milk as they grew to 500-600 lbs !! So he needed some help with slaughtering . Put a round in the proper point in the forehead it will drop , then slit the throat so it bleeds out.No problem , did it many times .But one time --9mm round in the head , calf drops .Put the gun away, pulled out my knife and stepped foreward .The calf instantly jumped up and charged to my great surprise !!  Fortunately he was still chained and came to the end just before hitting me !!!  The owner stood there laughing and I joined in .Dangerous game !  | |||
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Yes he did, but I do not know where to tell you how to find it. But I will tell you one thing that happened to him. He shot a cow at point blank range. Brain matter was ejected upon the bullets entry, that jammed the 1911. The brain matter hit upon the barrel and kept the slide from closing after the first shot. This is ONE of the reasons, [the 1911 lover that I am], that I recommend and carry a S&W 44 Mag Revolver, when in the field... However, I have carried the 1911 on several occasions, when in bear country and when black bear hunting, but I will admit the 44 Mag is a much better way to go. Especially after I saw the meat, fat, and bone structer of a Black Bear, much less a Griz or a Brown Bear. Also I have shot mule deer and whitetails with a 1911 45 ACP and whitetail with a 44 Mag. The 44 Mag is much more impressive for sure. So Eland Slayer IF you had both a 1911,45 ACP [my favorite handgun], AND a 44 Mag [my second favorite handgun], I would tell you to carry the 44 Mag. But, since you have only the 45 ACP then carry it, with 230 gr ball, or even better one, of the Buffalo Bore loads, ONLY IF, they work in your 1911. Better the 1911 than no handgun. For Sure... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I strongly recommend the Buffalo Bore 255 grain hard cast load for you. The 255 gainer will chrono at about 960 FPS and penetrate better than any other load in the 45 ACP that I have ever tried or seen tried _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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You ask about Bovines...Here's some actual field experience...not opinion. When I ran a beef slaughter plant, we had a Charlois Bull(live wt. 1600-1800 lbs as I remember)get out of the pens one day. We couldn't get close enough to him to "round him up" on foot. He was heading for a busy public highway.I jumped into the back of a pick-up and thereby was able to get out ahead of him. Stopped 30 yds or so in front of him and when he lowered his head just a little...I put a .22 long rifle round in the center of his forehead. He dropped like a rock...A classic "bang-flop". Of course this incident had nothing to do with stopping a charge, but it might answer your question about penetration of a well placed round. .22's were used for decades to slaughter beef animals and do the job just fine under those controlled conditions. A "SHTF" condition is another matter altogether. | |||
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I definitely agree that the .44 mag is a much better caliber for this.....and I do have one....but unfortunately it is not an option on this hunt because it is a 6.5" barreled S&W 629 with a scope (which obviously cannot be carried in a hip holster). The chances of needing something at all are slim to none.....but I always carry a handgun of some kind when hunting anyway (no matter what the quarry). _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Wow....I didn't even realize anyone made hard cast loads for .45 ACP. Have you tried them? And if so....do they feed reliably? I don't know if I will have the chance to get any and test them before this hunt....but you can bet I will be getting some to try out for future use. Thanks for the info!! _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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You don't necessarily need a hip holster. The holster in the link below will hold a BIG handgun comfortably and very accessibly. Chest Holsters for Big Guns | |||
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I would just carry the 45 ACP With some factory 230gr ball ammo. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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How about Winchester .45 ACP flat point ball. Called BEB for brass enclosed base. Designed to stop heat erosion of the lead on the base of ball ammo used on indoor ranges. Looks like it should stop anything of reasonable size. It used to be available in the local China Mart. Check www.midwayusa.com | |||
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YesI have tried then and they move the 45 ACP up the food chain for sure. They are the deepest pentrating hardest hitting load that I have ever seen for the 45 ACP _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Most slaughter houses use a stun gun powered by a 22 Blank.We kill all our pigs with a 22LR.just sayin!!! | |||
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I've had occassion to have to put a few animals down on our place and defend myself when growing up. Personally, I'd use a semi-wadcutter if you can find one reliable in your gun. If you get a wrong angle, it's less likely to skip off portions of the skull that aren't hit exactly head on. I usually unsed my OM .41Magnum with either 220gr or 250gr. WFNGC bullets. Put an old range cow down with a brain shot pronto. Had to butcher three times that year. Again, for skull shots, I'd go for something with a flatter nose than ball. JMHO and limited experience. JOE MACK aka The .41FAN HAVE MORE FUN AND GET THE JOB DONE WITH A .41 I am the punishment of God… If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you. (GENGHIS KHAN) | |||
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I grew up on the farm and we shot quite a few beef with various pistol calibers and with 22 lr. They all worked quite well. BUT a water buffalo has a very significantly different skull. It is much heavier with much denser bone structure. I would not be comfortable with any thing less than the largest handgun caliber I could handle and it would be loaded with a very heavy lbt style hard cast bullet. 3-7-77 | |||
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I think I might go ahead and try to order some.... Being +P loads, are they safe to shoot without some type of heavy-duty aftermarket spring? My 1911 is a custom by Ed Brown. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Some time ago I read an article about Military pistol calibers and it said the 45acp with 230 hardball was designed to penetrate atleast 24" of various bone and flesh.(don't remember which magazine or the author) | |||
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ES, what weight spring you running now?? When we went to +p in the ACP for duty we went to 20 pound springs, but I'm not sure you would need it for limited use. I have taken black bear and more pigs than I care to remember with 45acp ball,never had a problem with shots to the head if needed. Did cheat a tad some times on old ball loads by useing a small swiss file and flattened the nose just a tad Stay Alert,Stay Alive Niet geschoten is altijd mis Hate of America is the defeat position of failed individuals and the failing state | |||
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With a proper barrel to slide fit one can shoot 45 Super with a 18.5 pound spring. I do and have for some time now _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Well I bought 2 boxes of the Buffalo Bore 255 gr. Hard Cast ammo....and went out to test fire it today. It feeds perfectly....however, it is by far the most INACCURATE .45 ammunition I have ever shot. I was hoping to maybe do a little whitetail hunting with it, but that is not feasible at all with the accuracy I experienced. My 1911 is a custom by Ed Brown....and I can shoot ragged hole groups out to 15 yards with Winchester USA (white box) ball ammo.....and the same with Speer Gold Dot HP's. With this Buffalo Bore ammo, I was getting 6" groups at 7 yards, 12" groups at 15 yards, and 24" groups at 25 yards.....I was disgusted (to say the least). It will do what I need it to in the case of an emergency with an angry animal at close range....but I am not going to use it for anything else. I'm not sure if my 16# recoil spring has something to do with the horrible accuracy.....but maybe it would shoot better with a 20# spring. Recoil was stout....definitely the heaviest recoiling .45 ACP ammo I've ever shot. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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WOW your pistol doesn't like that load. They shoot well in mine and I would hunt with it in a second. Firearms are a law unto themsleves. I chrono's my 30-06 and my brothers on the same day both had 24" barrels mine was fadter with the 200 grain loads and his was faster with the 165 grain loadds. No ryme or reason for the results _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Yes, some guns are definitely moody at times.... No worries, they will serve their purpose for my Water Buffalo hunt....and I will keep them stashed away for the next time I might need ultra-deep penetrating ammo for my .45. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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