This query refers to heavy recoiling single action revolvers, 44 magnum being considered to have light-to-moderate recoil for the query. I have small hands, wedding ring finger size 7-7.5. Should I expect more comfort, less, or about the same were I to use Pachmayr tacky grip rather than one of wood or other smooth material?

Does your reply alter were the basic grip frame to be standard configuration, or Bisley?

I love them. I have them on every gun, mainly to keep my middle knuckle from getting banged up or cut. I see no difference in how they shoot but the comfort is there.
You should not let a gun "Roll" when you shoot it anyway. Your grip should always be firm whether it is wood or rubber. Your arm should rise with the gun, the gun should not twist in your hand. If the wood grips do not hurt your knuckle on the back of the trigger guard, there is no problem for you and you can use either type grip. I can't use a Bisley because of that short distance to the guard.
I hear guys say they get blisters and skin rubbed off from the rubber grips!!!! Might be an idea to HOLD the gun. I never understood the idea that the gun will roll and put the hammer closer to cock again. The gun is now out of position in the hand and the grip needs readjusted. A heavy kicker can play hob with you by not having the right grip. Some guys get the hammer spur stuck in the web of their thumb.
I am not talking about a "Death grip", just firm.

As my 454 is a Freedom Arms Field Grade it has the Pacmeyer grip ... I wouldn,t trade it for any smooth grip ...
It soaks up recoil ,, is still able to be hung onto when cold and wet ..
they don,t let the pistol roll up which I prefer ....
I thot it would be too big for my hand , as I have short fingers and thick hands , but I really like them now ...

I prefer the micarta grips on my heavy kickers, but then I also prefer the Bisley grip frames. Each to his own preference.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I prefer the micarta grips on my heavy kickers, but then I also prefer the Bisley grip frames. Each to his own preference.

I have to agree, on my BFR 500 Mag, I have the
micarta grips, on my BFR 45-70, I have smooth Buffalo horn grips. My Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt has smooth Moose antler grips, My 510 GNR has stag horn grips and my new 475 Linebaugh from Gary Reeder will have micarta grips.

For me, single action guns and rubber grips don't match. On a double action, I can see rubber grips. But that is just me.

Before I queried I was uncertain about Pachmayr grip. Now I am truly befuddled. What I must do are the following:

1. Shoot my FA 475 with stabilized wood grip without the handball glove to confirm the glove is the source of shooting hand web's discomfort.

2. Buy or borrow a Pachmayr grip for my FA 475 and shoot with, and again without the glove.

3. Make a choice.
***
I'm still not entirely clear why my SRH 480 with OEM grip handles similar recoil so differently while wearing the glove. In theory, a double action grip profile should exacerbate pressure/discomfort on shooting hand's web.

In general the sa grip frames are lower on the revolver, so the gun rotates more in recoil than a da.

I've heard of someone destroying a pair of shooting gloves using rubber grips on a hard kicking sa, as the grip would grip the glove vs. rotating the way a smooth grip would.

Rubbers don't belong on sa's, they look ugly and don't let sa's do what they are designed to do, roll in the hand.

I too have small hands. Have had most types of grips and prefer rubber but NOT Packys. Reason being due to their diamond style checkering shud I forget to wear gloves. The checking sticks to the soft 'devils pit' skin which will move w/the gun and not the w/hand resulting in a shear blister.

Hogues doesn't use the diamond cut style checkering ~ so, as ugly puppies they are, I've 'em on all my bfr's, ruger SA//DA and S&W X Frame. Yes, w/FG and w/o glove.Unfortunately, unable to fit'em to my FA's. For the fieldgrade, I removed the Padky and fitted a set of lamo that I got from FA in unfitted/unfinished form.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
In general the sa grip frames are lower on the revolver, so the gun rotates more in recoil than a da.

I've heard of someone destroying a pair of shooting gloves using rubber grips on a hard kicking sa, as the grip would grip the glove vs. rotating the way a smooth grip would.

Rubbers don't belong on sa's, they look ugly and don't let sa's do what they are designed to do, roll in the hand.

Agree 110%. That has been my experience also.
I also think SA guns look ugly with big rubber grips. My BFR's shed them ugly grips the day they arrived at the house. But if they work for someone, that's cool, but they are still ugly...lol

I think I'm becoming less befuddled. I have a question that may really do a head trip on me.

Let us assume that tacky, textured Pachmayr single action grips are deleterious to comfortable shooting with heavy recoiling single action revolvers, such as FA Model 83s in 454, 475, 500 WE. Why would Freedom Arms install this grip on their Field Grade Model 83s? Cost cannot possibly be a reason with revolvers in that price range. If it were, explaining wood single action grips used by the remainder of the single action revolver universe is impossible.


So what's going on?

Naphtali

It is simply a matter of personal preference.

I like Pachmayer's on S&W 44 Mags, but I do not like them on Single Actions.

I have tried them, but do not like them.

Pachmayrs are a LOT cheaper- perhaps 15-20% the cost of precisely fitted wood or micarta grips. Bead blasting is a LOT cheaper than hand polishing. Those are the 2 primary differences between PG's and FG's, and cost is the reason they were implemented.
Recoil comfort/discomfort is a highly personal thing. No one can tell you with absolute certainty what grip will feel best to you, nor which you will shoot best with. I do use some Pachmayrs on light recoiling handguns, but will not use them on .44's or larger calibers, although I tested them on SBH's in the early days of IHMSA shooting. For many FA 83 users, however, they do position the hand to protect the middle knuckle from the rear of the trigger guard. For others, they are abrasive to the palm. In any event, they're BIG on a FA.
Aesthetics? Well, that's a personal thing, too. None of my FA's or SBH's have them, and they never will.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
I prefer the micarta grips on my heavy kickers, but then I also prefer the Bisley grip frames. Each to his own preference.

+1

no condoms on my single actions. My favorite grip material is ivory but its too expensive. Stag would be second and nice walnut or real micarta would be a tie for third. You guys that get beat up by them and prefer the rubbers should try a set of grips that have been fitted and contoured properly. It amazes me how much more confortable the grips that dusting linebaugh makes are then a stock set of ruger grips. But again you cant get a set for 30 bucks.

I won't argue about that Lloyd as long as the gap behind the trigger guard is filled some for me. Rubber has been the cheapest way and I admit they are ugly but they are functional.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
no condoms on my single actions. My favorite grip material is ivory but its too expensive. Stag would be second and nice walnut or real micarta would be a tie for third. You guys that get beat up by them and prefer the rubbers should try a set of grips that have been fitted and contoured properly. It amazes me how much more confortable the grips that dusting linebaugh makes are then a stock set of ruger grips. But again you cant get a set for 30 bucks.

I had to laugh my ass off Lloyd, condoms on guns..

You are right though, a good fitted set of grips work great. Stag or some kind of antler is my favorit followed by micarta. Nice wood would be my 3rd choice.

I use both Pac's & Houges ( prefer Houges ), but latley I've been liking the contoured laminate wood stocks on my D.A's so I might have to try a set on one of my S.A's...

been thinking about birds head grips on my pair of new Montados ( 45 Colt )???

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
I think I'm becoming less befuddled. I have a question that may really do a head trip on me.

Let us assume that tacky, textured Pachmayr single action grips are deleterious to comfortable shooting with heavy recoiling single action revolvers, such as FA Model 83s in 454, 475, 500 WE. Why would Freedom Arms install this grip on their Field Grade Model 83s? Cost cannot possibly be a reason with revolvers in that price range. If it were, explaining wood single action grips used by the remainder of the single action revolver universe is impossible.


So what's going on?

.......

Theres lots and lots of things to spend lots and lots of money on when it comes to hunting ....For me , since cold and wet or snow,ice are very common while hunting , a grip I can squeeze helps me hang on to things .....I agree athletically the the rubber grips arn,t as nice but when my 480,s or 454 goes off I like to not have it moveing around too much .... I can,t do that very well with a hard grip .... Tho I don,t know how they will work on a 4 5/8 ,ect. barrel length 475 Linebaugh or one of the 500 Linebaugh size rounds ......
I remember when the Field Grade model 83 came out and most guys really liked the rubber grip ....

I had a fun Friday afternoon. Shot a 475 Turnbull that was absurdly accurate in when shot by the other two shooters. They were able to hit rectangular "gongs" at 300 yards with disgusting regularity. Both men were able to hit the gong at 693 yards with a 45-70 C. Sharps target rifle using Swiss black powder. I didn't observe the first two hits because I forgot just how slowly the 540-grain Postell bullet moved toward the target -- more than three seconds to impact dust.

I shot a heavily loaded FA Model 83 44 Magnum with Pachmayr grip.

The good part:
1. Pachmayr grip emulates a Bisley grip frame between front strap and trigger guard.

2. Grip extends beneath bottom of grip frame about .25 inch, again emulating a Bisley.

The bad part:
1. Grip is prohibitively oversized in girth.

2. Grip is prohibitively tacky. Recoil more substantial than 44 Magnum will tear flesh from your palm and web.

3. The nature of its Bisley emulation is misguided because shooting hand is forced too low to be able to easily and conveniently cock the hammer.
***
What is a significantly improved grip solution would be to have the butt rounded. Then using stabilized wood/micarta®/G-10 to recreate Pachmayr's emulation between front strap and trigger guard and extend the scales beneath the round butt about .25 inch. Now comes the tricky part. Have the hammer spur reshaped to allow hammer to be thumb cocked by shooting hand in its [now] lower position. While not necessarily a Model 83 Bisley, it leans heavily in that direction.

If you are a shooter who uses his support hand only to cock the hammer, the tricky part ain't tricky no more.

I picked up a Model 83 Field Grade 357, so I'm going to test my findings with dollars when I talk with Jack Huntington this coming week. His shop is moving to a different location. He has told me to not send work for a few weeks, until they are running smoothly again.

Naphtali, what are you converting the .357 to? .454?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Naphtali, what are you converting the .357 to? .454?

There's no substitute for cubic inches. It will become a 500 WE.

Your going to have Jack build you a WE when the .500 JRH is his creation?? Come on, Naphtali, get yourself a .500 JRH!!

No Sissy belts on a revolver cartridges for me, thank you very much..

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Naphtali, what are you converting the .357 to? .454?

There's no substitute for cubic inches. It will become a 500 WE.

Naphtali, other than the 500 WE being a FA cartridge, what made you decide on the 500 WE over other 500 calibers?

Smacks of gimmickry?

Yup, the .500 JRH was designed for the Freedom revolvers and they opted instead to create a nearly identical cartridge with a belt instead of a rim.

The good part:
1. Pachmayr grip emulates a Bisley grip frame between front strap and trigger guard.

2. Grip extends beneath bottom of grip frame about .25 inch, again emulating a Bisley.

The bad part:
1. Grip is prohibitively oversized in girth.

2. Grip is prohibitively tacky. Recoil more substantial than 44 Magnum will tear flesh from your palm and web.

This is not entirely true. The Pachmeyer grip only adds 1/32" of an inch of rubber in the back so it is far from a Bisley. It is also narrower then the wood grips being .13" narrower in the center and .35" at the bottom.
The makeup is in the width front to rear that is .345" more then the wood. So essentially the feel is the same.
They are longer because the filler behind the trigger guard has to lower the hand so the little finger is not under the grip.
They are pretty far from a Bisley. I hate the Bisley because of the short distance from the trigger guard to my knuckle. There is no way to keep it from being beat up.
I have been shooting them on the .44 and with HEAVY loads in my .45 Vaquaro, the .475 and 45-70, for years. With thousands and thousands of heavy loads and boolits, I have yet to even see a trace of rubber on my palm. There is no wear on the back of the grips and my hand never hurts or shows any sign of redness. And I shoot with one hand a lot.
I don't know how anyone can have the skin rubbed off. They are solid comfort.
All of my S&W 29's would leave the checkering on my hand and make them red.
Yes, the pachmeyer's are ugly and I prefer the look of regular grips and shoot them well with the exception of knuckle pain and damage. With my large knuckle, the Bisley is pure hell.
So, not everyone has a problem with the rubber grips.
Some like the gun to look nice and some like the gun to shoot nice. The solution is to put the pretty grips on at home and put the rubber on for shooting.
My friend bought a Freedom .475 and he asked what grips to get. I told him to get both but he just got the pretty ones. He shot 10 shots and went home to order the rubber ones. I didn't shoot it much either, NASTY on the knuckle. You need tiny hands.
Cowboy guys don't have a problem with the super light loads and cocking with the off hand so they can use anything.

The essential rationale for choosing 500 WE rather than the 500 JRH are: One is a proprietary cartridge -- that is, brass is available for purchase -- while the other is a wildcat -- that is, I must futz with trimming a whole bunch of 500 S&W cases; and there are pressure-tested reloading data for 500 WE while there is none for 500 JRH.
***
Having Mr. Huntington rebore to 500 WE is the conservative alternative. Were these essential differences not present, I would consider the 500 JRH. Does it incorporate improvements/superiority when compared with 500 WE about which I am unaware, or are interior and exterior ballistics nearly identical?
***********
bfrshooter:

I suspect many of our differences about Pachmayr grip stem from relative differences in size of our hands.

That's just not true. The .500 JRH is NOT a wildcat. It is a production round. BFR even produces a revolver in this chambering. Buffalo Bore offers a couple of different loads in .500 JRH while Grizzly makes the WE ammo. The JRH has been pressure tested and is nearly identical to the WE. What cartridge do you think the WE is based on??

Naphtali, sound like a good reason to me. It's your gun, do what you think will make you happy..

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Naphtali, sound like a good reason to me. It's your gun, do what you think will make you happy..

Yes, I agree, if the basis of the reasoning was true. But, he has been misled.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
That's just not true. The .500 JRH is NOT a wildcat. It is a production round. BFR even produces a revolver in this chambering. Buffalo Bore offers a couple of different loads in .500 JRH while Grizzly makes the WE ammo. The JRH has been pressure tested and is nearly identical to the WE. What cartridge do you think the WE is based on??

From where can I buy 500 JRH brass in quantity? Please furnish a link to 500 JRH pressure-tested data comparable with 500 WE's Hodgdon's data. And lastly, in revolvers having pushrod extraction-ejection, is there some mechanical advantage to using a small-rimmed cartridge case versus a belted case?

These are "buying" questions, not objections. It is not too late to make the change.

You can purchase the brass from Buffalo Bore or from Jack. It is produced by Starline. Naphtali -- I'm sending you a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
I think I'm becoming less befuddled. I have a question that may really do a head trip on me.

Let us assume that tacky, textured Pachmayr single action grips are deleterious to comfortable shooting with heavy recoiling single action revolvers, such as FA Model 83s in 454, 475, 500 WE. Why would Freedom Arms install this grip on their Field Grade Model 83s? Cost cannot possibly be a reason with revolvers in that price range. If it were, explaining wood single action grips used by the remainder of the single action revolver universe is impossible.


So what's going on?

Another point is ~90% of the people that buy the big bore handguns barely shoot them at al, so don't get to the point that they learn what the short comings are of various setups.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:
I think I'm becoming less befuddled. I have a question that may really do a head trip on me.

Let us assume that tacky, textured Pachmayr single action grips are deleterious to comfortable shooting with heavy recoiling single action revolvers, such as FA Model 83s in 454, 475, 500 WE. Why would Freedom Arms install this grip on their Field Grade Model 83s? Cost cannot possibly be a reason with revolvers in that price range. If it were, explaining wood single action grips used by the remainder of the single action revolver universe is impossible.


So what's going on?

Another point is ~90% of the people that buy the big bore handguns barely shoot them at al, so don't get to the point that they learn what the short comings are of various setups.

I don't know where you come up with your percentages, but all the guys I know that have big bore handguns shoot the hell out of them.

Redhawk, he might have a point there. I only have two friends that shoot the big ones as much as I do. The rest won't bring them to shoot and bring smaller guns. Many others will not even try my guns.
I also think there are only a few of us compared to the rest of the shooters as a whole.
Even on the sites, you will see hundreds of posts about the heavy recoil of the .44 and all kinds of questions about making lighter loads.
Recoil does put fear in a lot of people.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
Redhawk, he might have a point there. I only have two friends that shoot the big ones as much as I do. The rest won't bring them to shoot and bring smaller guns. Many others will not even try my guns.
I also think there are only a few of us compared to the rest of the shooters as a whole.
Even on the sites, you will see hundreds of posts about the heavy recoil of the .44 and all kinds of questions about making lighter loads.
Recoil does put fear in a lot of people.

Yea you may be right, I do here of people wanting to reduce the recoil in the little 44 Mag..lol

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
Another point is ~90% of the people that buy the big bore handguns barely shoot them at al, so don't get to the point that they learn what the short comings are of various setups.

AHA! . . . Expecting to become like Roy Hobbs were I to buy one of Ted Williams' game bats?
***
A principal advantage, for me, to use very large bore cartridges is their ability to kill cleanly and quickly without their being loaded to bone-crushing ballistics. If the huge bore owner doesn't handload, this ability doesn't exist. And most shooters in such a position would revert to fondling the revolver rather than get beaten up by it.

Yes indeed. Every site I visit the typical .44 magnum load commentary contains the words severe, heavy, stout, mind-numbing, wrist-breaking, manhood shrivelling, brain rattling, to describe the recoil characteristics of their pet loads........... I can remember when I felt this way too, many years ago.......

Just bought a fa gun with condoms on it and I need a set of wood or micartas. If anyone has a set theyed sell Id buy them and throw in these ugly ones for free.