So the ranch-hand has been around for awhile now. Who has been hunting with it?

I did some handgun hunting in Alberta last fall but did not get an opportunity to shoot a deer with mine.

Shooting this gun is different that shooting a rifle or a "conventional" hand gun but with some practise and using a rest it can be effectively shot.

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but with some practise and using a rest it can be effectively shot.

The same can be said for just about any firearm.

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Originally posted by p dog shooter:

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but with some practise and using a rest it can be effectively shot.

The same can be said for just about any firearm.

Yes thats true. The reason I mentioned it is because often I hear people say "the ranch-hand is not very accurate, its hard to shoot and is just a fun toy etc."

I think if you have spent some time learning how to shoot a more "conventional" handgun then you should give the ranch-hand the same kind of patient practice and learning time. Some guys are putting full but stocks on them and saying "now they shoot half decent" instead of taking what it is and working with it.

It just doesn't do any thing for me in that form.

Now it I could stock it with out the hassle we have in the states over short barrel rifles I be interisted in one.

I like to be able to use my hand guns one handed if need be.

Theres no reason it could not be accurate.

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ranch-hand

How can you handgun hunt in Canada?

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Originally posted by kaboom:

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ranch-hand

How can you handgun hunt in Canada?

Two ways for me. I have been carrying a CO2 .22 cal pellet pistol for grouse and I have been hunting with a ranch-hand.

1. It says its a handgun right on the box.
2. It fulfils my definition of a handgun.

A holder of a registered trap line can get a permit to carry a handgun on his line.

Hi Duffy,
I take it you are Canadian?
I didn't think Canada allowed handgun hunting?
or is that just for non Canadians?
or have I got it wrong altogether?

We are not permitted to hunt with modern handguns in Canada...well other than Duffy's pellet pistol. Interestingly, the Ranch Hand is classified as a long gun in Canada and not a pistol as it is in the U.S. and is perfectly legal to hunt with here.

Ok, Thanks guys, I guess that was what I didn't understand. I was hoping there was a loop hole I didn't know about that would allow me to chase caribou with my Smith & Wesson.

Also, consider the AWA lightning. A more compact version with a short throw pump action.

I've seen a picture of a TC with a very short butt stock. That would make it a rifle I guess as it is stocked to shoot from the sohulder, but I'm not sure of what barrel length limitation if any applies. Now if you hunt without putting the stock against your shoulder, I suppose that's your choice isn't it?

Off of shooting sticks the Ranch Hand is amazingly accurate. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at 100 yards with one. Off hand they are awkward for sure. As we cannot carry a handgun in Canada, I often carry a Ranch Hand in bear country and I can shoot a 4" group at 25 yards off hand, good enough for bear protection I figure. Not ideal perhaps but it's the shortest firearm made that we can legally carry.

I bought one of these in .44mag last summer, and have spent a fair bit of time playing with it. Up here we have lots of guys hugging themselves and almost peeing because they're so excited that we can have this "handgun" (says so right on the box!) and use it for hunting. Then the first thing that many of them do is replace the mini-buttstock with a full-length one!

Yes, it's easier to shoot with a long buttstock. Duh! I love using it as-is, now that the initial problems of a too-low front sight have been addressed. I actually carried it a couple of times during deer season last year, although I never took a shot with it. I have taken a coyote at around 75 yards, another at less than 20 yards, and have smoked a few pigeons (not flying) around the barn. It's definitely a novelty and requires a lot of familiarization, but it's loads of fun and quite effective with practice.

Sheephunter, as much as I like the Ranch Hand, I can't imagine a clumsier thing to get into action quickly to use for bear defense. Give me a pump 12-gauge with a barrel between 8 and 14 inches any day. To our American friends: yes, although the Canuckistan government doesn't trust us to use handguns, radar detectors, hi-cap gun magazines or AR's...we can indeed own and use short-barrelled shotguns!

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Originally posted by jwm:
Sheephunter, as much as I like the Ranch Hand, I can't imagine a clumsier thing to get into action quickly to use for bear defense. Give me a pump 12-gauge with a barrel between 8 and 14 inches any day. To our American friends: yes, although the Canuckistan government doesn't trust us to use handguns, radar detectors, hi-cap gun magazines or AR's...we can indeed own and use short-barrelled shotguns!

Ah, it was a good excuse to buy one plus it's very easy to keep tucked out of sight in a pack if need be. I'd feel confident at 20 yards with a bear with it. For summer trips in the mountains it's a bit of extra security from toothy critters.

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Originally posted by sheephunterab:
We are not permitted to hunt with modern handguns in Canada...well other than Duffy's pellet pistol. Interestingly, the Ranch Hand is classified as a long gun in Canada and not a pistol as it is in the U.S. and is perfectly legal to hunt with here.

Is the ranch hand actually "classified as a long gun? or is it just NOT classified as a Restricted weapon?

I have not looked at the hunting regulations for other provinces. Are you sure it is legal to hunt with everywhere in Canada?

I don't believe the term "long gun" has any legal meaning. The Ranch Hand is most definitely classified as "non-restricted" and so is legal to shoot anywhere where discharge of a firearm is not prohibited by law.

I think you'd need to check your provincial regs to make sure there are not other limits such as minimum barrel length for a hunting gun. Good luck finding someone who can categorically state that it's legal everywhere...too many different sets of rules to worry about.

Sheephunter, I like your rationalization process for buying this gun, being somewhat of a master of self-delusion myself . In the case of the Ranch Hand, I was actually spared the need to practice this skill...my wife had an encounter with a black bear that made her nervous enough that she likes me to have a boomstick on hand when we go for a hike or stroll. The Ranch Hand sold itself, even though I think of it as more of a toy than a "serious" gun.

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Originally posted by duffy4:

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Originally posted by sheephunterab:
We are not permitted to hunt with modern handguns in Canada...well other than Duffy's pellet pistol. Interestingly, the Ranch Hand is classified as a long gun in Canada and not a pistol as it is in the U.S. and is perfectly legal to hunt with here.

Is the ranch hand actually "classified as a long gun? or is it just NOT classified as a Restricted weapon?

I have not looked at the hunting regulations for other provinces. Are you sure it is legal to hunt with everywhere in Canada?

It is a non-restricted long gun in Canada. No it is not legal everywhere in Canada. There are some areas where archery-only gear is permitted, others where only muzzleloaders and shotguns are permitted and others have calibre restrictions. Best to check with local regulations.

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Originally posted by jwm:
I don't believe the term "long gun" has any legal meaning. The Ranch Hand is most definitely classified as "non-restricted" and so is legal to shoot anywhere where discharge of a firearm is not prohibited by law.

I think you'd need to check your provincial regs to make sure there are not other limits such as minimum barrel length for a hunting gun. Good luck finding someone who can categorically state that it's legal everywhere...too many different sets of rules to worry about.

Sheephunter, I like your rationalization process for buying this gun, being somewhat of a master of self-delusion myself . In the case of the Ranch Hand, I was actually spared the need to practice this skill...my wife had an encounter with a black bear that made her nervous enough that she likes me to have a boomstick on hand when we go for a hike or stroll. The Ranch Hand sold itself, even though I think of it as more of a toy than a "serious" gun.

I'd actually feel fairly confident in it being a serious gun in a close up encounter with a bear. I also think it makes a great choice for hound hunters. It's easy to pack and plenty accurate enough for shooting a bear or cougar in a tree.

Never even thought of that...I've never hunted over hounds. The Ranch Hand should be perfect, especially for those extremely physical, deep-snow cougar hunts over hounds.

"An unholy mess has been made by earlier legislation plus Bill C-68 regarding the definitions of non-restricted firearms, "restricted firearms", "prohibited firearms" [the two in quotes are defined by CC s. 84(1); the term non-restricted is not defined in the law]. Let's try it this way, for the education of those who want to understand this area of law:"

As a ranch-hand has not been classified as restricted I think it best to just call it "not classified as restricted" rather than "non-restricted"

Or, we could call it a "fun gun".

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Originally posted by duffy4:

As a ranch-hand has not been classified as restricted I think it best to just call it "not classified as restricted" rather than "non-restricted"

Or, we could call it a "fun gun".

We have non-restricted, restricted and prohibited firearms in this country.....the Ranch Hand in a non-restricted long gun....just like my Cooey .22.....plain and simple. Not really sure why you always feel the need to way over complicate things Duffy. Now why don't we allow these fine American folks get back to discussing handgun hunting, something we cannot do with modern handguns in our country and really doesn't belong in this forum.

The registration certificate for my Ranch Hand clearly labelled it as "non-restricted". Unless the law has been re-written in the few months since that was issued, I'll choose to believe it rather than an infamous internet troller.

I thought that your handle was familiar, but it wasn't until I saw the location that it clicked into place. Don't I feel silly!

Mine says the same thing.....my Ranch Hand certificate was actually issued the day the registration was abolished...only one I kept as souvenir. Hard to believe it was a year ago.

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Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Mine says the same thing.....my Ranch Hand certificate was actually issued the day the registration was abolished...only one I kept as souvenir. Hard to believe it was a year ago.

I never had mine registered. The quote above is from the National Firearms Association and I was just going on what they had said. If there is really no legal definition of Non-restricted as they suggest, it is perfectly believable that the gun registry people would be using it.

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Originally posted by duffy4:

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Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Mine says the same thing.....my Ranch Hand certificate was actually issued the day the registration was abolished...only one I kept as souvenir. Hard to believe it was a year ago.

I never had mine registered. The quote above is from the National Firearms Association and I was just going on what they had said. If there is really no legal definition of Non-restricted as they suggest, it is perfectly believable that the gun registry people would be using it.

I think common sense would dictate what non-restricted means....Duffy I'm not so sure why you want to bring so much government attention to this firearm as it may ultimately lead to you finding out what restricted means. Enjoy the small freedoms we have....or at least let the rest of us enjoy them. I think you've shopped this thread around enough messageboards....don't you?

There was no intent to "bring government attention" to anything.

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Originally posted by duffy4:
So the ranch-hand has been around for awhile now. Who has been hunting with it?

I did some handgun hunting in Alberta last fall but did not get an opportunity to shoot a deer with mine.

Shooting this gun is different that shooting a
rifle or a "conventional" hand gun but with some practise and using a rest it can be effectively shot.

Back to my original question. (after some side tracking) Regardless of what one calls it, has anyone done much hunting with one and what was your results like?

I was excited to see them when they first came out, but I think they would get a little getting used to.

I think they'd work better like this.

Now that looks like it would be fun!

Too bad that I couldn't be trusted to own one without going on a baby-killing spree...just ask my government...

I seem to remember the Ranch Hand concept worked pretty good for a particular hunter...

Josh Randall, BOUNTY HUNTER.

Sorry, could not resist.

However in a place where you cannot have a "handgun", I would want one for bear, and other protection over a long gun, because you can "holster" carry the Ranch Hand, and thus have it on your personand have the use of both hands...

Nothing wrong with keeping a long gun as handy as possible, but I would WEAR the Ranch Hand.