Gents, and ladies. This has been a "project" for me for over 30 years.
I have always wanted a Colt SAA with a 4 3/4" barrel, even with the extractor rod, in 44 Special. This would be a fun gun, carried at the deer lease, with Elmer Keith type 240gr cast bullet loads, in the 7 to 8gr of Unique range. Not trying to make it a 44 mag.

I have considered this project many, many timmes over the years, but always practicality, has won out, and I have not bought the gun. After a 4" S&W in 44 Mag or a 1911 in 45 ACP can do the same job, and they are easier/faster to reload, than a "pluck and chuck" Single action.

However receintly this project has resurfaced, in my mind and in the mind of one of my shooting hunting buddies...

So here are a few questions.
Which is to be prefered, an Original Colt SAA or one of the "clones" like say the USFA single actions.

44 Special is the only calibre considered as I have a progressive loader that I can adjust to load 44 Specials. There is nothing wrong with the 45 Colt in a SAA it is just that I already have the ability to load the 44 Special.

I would be intrested in those of you that have one or the other, and especially those of you that have experience with both.

I have even thought of, and my buddy recommended I go with a FA 97 in 44 Special.
I do have a FA in 475 and consider them to be one of the best handguns made, it is just that for this project, I want to stay with an original type SAA, for nostalga reasons.

Have you given any thought to a Colt New Frontier? Just an idea.

Re: New Frontier, ea I have as i am a believer of adjustable sights/.

However, since this handgun would be mostly a one load gun I am mostly thinking about a standard SAA.

I'd suggest a Colt or USFA in .45. A .44 special in a Colt SAA, will be a little harder to find & higher $$$, espcially in a 4 3/4 barrel. But you could order one from Colt, but would require a lengthy wait for production.
Reloading .45, would only require a case holder & die set.
Colt /USFA much better quality than the clones.

nobody2

I agree with your post, however I load on a Star Progressive loader. ANY increase in the cost of a 44 Special SAA over a 45 Colt, is well worth the money spent, considering the efficency of the Star loader.

Again, for me, the only calibre CHOICE IS THE 44 SPECIAL...

About 10-12 years ago I got bit by the Cowboy Shooting competition bug and bought 2 Colt clones from Cimarron.

Both were in a 45 Colt caliber and one was what they call their Model P blued with a 4 3/4 barrel and the other was a Calvary model 7.5" barrel in a Custer Commemorative format. I would clasify both as a POS.

The Custer went in for repairs 3 times and the P model twice, each time a gunsmith would work on them they would comment about the poor quality of the metal in the internals. By the time they had been repaired so many times and crap parts replaced with Colt parts I came close to having a Colt Shooter. I gave up on them but wouldn't sell them to anyone as I didn't feel it was a good thing to do to someone. After getting them repaired for the last time I gave them to my sons and cautioned them about how much volume shooting those Cimarrons would handle.


If Ruger made their New Vaquero in a 44Special it would be a good one to look at, but I don't think that's available.

I've been thinking very hard on one of the new Vaquero's with the 3 3/4" barrel in .44 Spl. If they made it with the Bird's Head grip it would already be in my safe.

I'd think a moderate .44 Spl load would be a fine choice for just bumming around in the bush. I've got several .44 Mags, just need brass as I've already got bullets, powder and primers on hand.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
If Ruger made their New Vaquero in a 44Special it would be a good one to look at, but I don't think that's available.

http://www.ruger.com/products/...specSheets/5146.html

They have a few different flavors in .44 Spl, it's something new for Ruger.

I have a friend who bought a set of the Cimarrons for SASS and he didn't think much of their durability either.

I am a great fan of Colt revolvers. And if expense is not a consideration go for it...send it to someone like Bowen to tune and regulate and it will give you joy.

But, my recent purchase of this revolver left me joyful....

RUGER BISLEY BLACKHAWK FLAT TOP
.44 special
7.5" barrel
S.N. SH25-096
1-16 twist
High Polish Blue; fancy rosewood grips
Special 25th Anniversary’s revolver


It is everything I look for in a revolver and more..25 yards; the 1st five out of the box
250 grain Leadheads Keith style
7.5 grains of Universal
Starline brass
Winchester large pistol primers
..

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
If Ruger made their New Vaquero in a 44Special it would be a good one to look at, but I don't think that's available.

http://www.ruger.com/products/...specSheets/5146.html

They have a few different flavors in .44 Spl, it's something new for Ruger.

I have a friend who bought a set of the Cimarrons for SASS and he didn't think much of their durability either.

I knew that the Ruger production line did not make a stock item .44 Special but wasn't aware of the limited production runs made for other houses. My experience with those runs is that they are sometimes hard to find with the limited number ordered.

My experience with Cimarrons did indeed "pee in the pool" for me as far as ever buying anything from them. When I contacted them about the problems I had, they asked me to send the guns back, and when I received them from Cimarron the note said that the parts were "within specs". I didn't consider a freewheelin" cylinder and lead spitting to be within specs and knew that further attempts would be useless. Very difficult people to deal with over the phone.

But I figure their failure to service my two shooters, from the bad referrals I give about their QC, would more than equal what I had to spend to make their POS at least safe.

Have you looked at the Ubertis? I had a really good experience with the one I had.

Because I like adjustable sights, I would go for a 4 5/8" Ruger Flattop in either blue or stainless, made as a special run for Lipsey's (although Ruger now offers the blue version in their line). I have one of each, and like them, particularly the stainless version.
They are made on the mid-size (357) frame, are all steel, have the "Micro" rear sight, and feature the original XR-3 gripframe, essentially the same size as the Colt SAA.
Both the blue and stainless versions are currently available on Gunbroker. A blued 3 3/4" version of a fixed sight New Vaquero is also available.
My personal choice between Colt and USFA is USFA by a slight margin.
The new New Frontiers are not yet available in 4 3/4" barrels, although they are promised in the future. I'm told that new production Colts are better than those produced a few (4+) years ago. As a result, If you choose Colt, I'd select a new one.

I have a Ruger Blackhawk I bought 50 years ago as a .357 Mag. I had it converted to .44 Special by Dave Clements in 2004 and they did a very nice job.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Have you looked at the Ubertis? I had a really good experience with the one I had.

One of the importers for Ubertis is Cimarron and my shooters were Ubertis. Very bad QC.

I have a gen 3 Colt 4-5/8 in .45 Colt. Beautiful on the outside and ugly on the inside, action rough, horrible trigger, worst part is that the throats are way oversize for the bore. I don't know if this is a problem with the .44's.
They are available, they can be smoothed out a bit but not much to do about oversize throats (what do you expect foe >1k$?). I have heard nothing but good about the USFA guns, if you are not hung up on Colt I think I would look there.
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Have you looked at the Ubertis? I had a really good experience with the one I had.

One of the importers for Ubertis is Cimarron and my shooters were Ubertis. Very bad QC.

I had a Callahan in .44 Mag and it was a really nice little revolver that was not only nicely finshed, with a good piece of walnut as well, it shot accurately and had a really nice trigger. Not bad at all for a $600.00 (or thereabouts) gun. I have heard that they have soft internals, so I don't know what the long term looks like, but it left a rather good impression on everyone who handled it and tried it out.

Ne 450, I understand what you are asking and I would look at the Colts and if I was not happy with them I would look hard at the USFA before anything else. This is something I would want in my hands before buying.

Gents thanks for all the info.
I am also going to take a look at the Turnbull Open Range Revolvers.

The last word in 44 Special single actions - USFA period. I have/had all manner/brand of 44 Specials in both SA (and DA) both factory and full customs by the best. The biggest bang for your dollar is the USFA, which is really a custom revolver from the factory for $1000 less than what you will pay for the full smith custom. Colts....overpriced and nowhere near what you should get for that much money. I had two Colts and unloaded them quickly. I have at least 6 of the USFA's. Two in 22 rimfire (full size gun and cylinder too), two in 44Special and two in 45 LC. All so smooth and so accurate. I have nothing against Colt, as I have MANY Pythons, Anacondas etc but won't have another of their later SA's. BTW, I also have all of the versions of the Ruger 44 Specials which are also quite a bargain for the money...but not in the same league as the USFA. Did I mention that the USFA have the most beautiful color casing and the most lustrious nickle of any manufacturer. That makes the choice even easier.

I am pretty sure the Turnbull revolvers are USFA made and I am equally sure Turnbull does the color casing on the USFA revolvers.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
I am pretty sure the Turnbull revolvers are USFA made and I am equally sure Turnbull does the color casing on the USFA revolvers.

I believe you are correct, Woodrow.

I know the feeling regarding a Colt. Five years ago I wanted one but every 3rd Gen I looked at was poorly put together and finished. So I bought a USFA instead which was perfection in every way. Today, Colt is putting out good stuff again and I would likely go the Colt route, to have a Colt. That said, for months CDNN has had some darn nice Turnbull built USFA's priced well. Not sure what's left but they had three or four models with a full range of engraving as well.

Get the Colt. If you check it out, the problem Colts are from the 80s and early 90s when they were having both management and labor issues. Anything from the later 90s till current production are very fine guns. Likely the only "tuning" they need is a somewhat lighter main spring to ease cocking. I have both SAAs and New Frontiers and all of them are plenty accurate. Mine are all 45s, and as far as I am concerned, the oversize throats are a non issue. 44 Special is likely the closest there is to "perfect" caliber for the SAA.

I have several single actions in 44 special as it is my favorite handgun cartridge. I have Colt's SAA, Colt's NF, an Old Ruger Flat top that Jim Stroh converted to 44sp, and a couple of the New Ruger (Lipsey's run) Flat top 44sp. The Colt's are earlier 3rd Gen and were a little rough when I first got them.

The USFA's look nice and I have heard good reports on them. A friend of mine has a bunch of them and has had to send more than one back to the factory, so no one is immune to quality control problems. The new Colt's SAA are the finest I have seen. There is not a lot of price difference between a Colt and a USFA and the USFA will never be a Colt when it comes to holding its value.

The Ruger that Jim Stroh converted for me is special, but if Ruger made a flat top 44sp during that time, I never would have had it built. Having said all of that, if I wanted a real SAA, I would buy a Colt. Otherwise, the new Ruger flat tops are a lot of gun for the money and shoot great.

I would buy a Turnbull open range clone. Mechanicals from USFA and fit and finish by Turnbull Restoration. They are several hundred $ more than a colt but I think the extra care in finish is worth it.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/sto...id=31717&catid=19872

I've had this 2nd gen Colt SAA since the mid 70s and have owned several others in addition to Ruger & Uberti SAs. All were good guns but IMO the original 4 3/4" SAA is near perfect. They shoot right where you point, balance is optimum and they are like an extension of your hand. They just "feel" right. Mine has had several thousand handloads thru it, no problems.

Well I finally did it.

I was made an offer I could not refuse by a good buddy on a Turnbull USFA in 45 Colt with a 4 3/4" barrel. This is one of the revolvers he got from USFA and not only colorcased, but worked over the whole revolver as well.

Recently there was a post by Cal Pappas on "Why a Turnbull?".

Well this SAA is a perfect example of "Why a Turnbull".
As I stated in the original post I have been wanting a SAA for well over 30 years. So I have handled and shot a lot of them over the years. This Turnbull is no doubt the best SAA I have ever handled. Not only is the finish flawless, but the trigger pull is like a target gun. Also this revolver locks up and feels like a FA, solid.
I have only shot it a few times off my back deck at some rocks but it hits right with the sights with the only 45 Colt ammo I have on hand. I will be testing several different rounds in the near future, as I plan to carry this gun while pig and deer hunting, as well as on Turtle Patrol here on my place just to get some trigger time with it.

Yes, I know I stated I "had" to have a 44 Special, but this particular 45 Colt was so nice, I had to make an exception.

And actually now there are as many good different factory loads in 45 Colt as in 44 Special. Also I reload so a new set of dies, and I am in business there as well.

Pics!! We Need Pics

It aint true till we see pics!!!!

Good job on grabbing the Turnbull/USFA 45. USFA is not making these beautiful single actions any longer which is a shame. While I have had Colts in the past, I would grab a USFA in a heartbeat if I was looking for another SAA style revolver. I just listed a 414 Supermag in the classifieds that Turnbull colored and it is beautiful as well.

Sorry can't do pics...

I did order some reloading dies, and ordered some different factory loads to try, till I load my own.

I ordered the following:
Ultra Max 250gr. I will use these for some trigger time/plinking around my place.

Buffalo Bore 225gr Full Wadcutter.
I think these will be OK for use on an upcomming trip to the deer lease in case I have some pig trouble. They should give good penetration.

Buffalo Bore 225 gr Soft Lead HP. These are designed as an anti personel defensive round, but should do good on most game under 250 lbs, up close.

Barnes Vortex 200gr X bullet. They claim good expansion and good penetration with this load.

Hornady 225gr FTX. I have had great results on pig with the 225gr 44 Mag Hornady FTX load and great results with the 325gr FTX bullets in a 458 SOCOM, and the 45 Colt Hornady FTX are very reasonably priced.

The above loads were just about all that were avialable. I wanted to try as many loads as possible just to see how they printed with the sights on this revolver.

I wanted to order some of the Buffalo Bore 255gr SWC but could not find any of them.

I also have some CCI 200gr Blazer loads, and I know the gun shoots them to POI.

My plan is to develop a good reload for field use, that hits to the sights, suitable for up close deer, and pig hunting.

Something along the lines of a 225 to 255gr hard cast SWC, at around 950 to 1000fps.

I will use Unique powder, as I do not see the need for 2400 in the short 4 3/4" barrel.
And I keep it on hand for other calibres.

I will also get some of the CCI/Speer 45 Colt shotshells for small game and snakes.

I got to "fondle" a couple of Turnbulls at SCI.
They are good enough quality that Colt has him doing their case hardening. His SAA repro has all of the internals made to his specs, and heat treated properly.

That would be my choice...

I found some 45 Colt ammo at a local gunstore today, and fired a few rounds off of my deck.

I shot Hornady 255gr Cowboy loads, 225 Hornady Lever Evolution, Speer Gold Dot 250gr GDHP, and the Barnes 200gr XPB HP VOR-TX load.

I was shooting at rocks, and all the ammo seemed to hit spot on, except for the 255gr Cowboy loads, which makes sence as they are low velocity loads and should hit higher...

When I get the other ammo I have ordered I will shoot all of them on paper...


However, I must say that all of these loads have very little recoil, this revolver is very plesant to shoot.

It might be because of all those years of shooting full power 44 Magnums, and the 475 Linebaugh, but I am thinking about boring this 45 Colt cylinder out to 454.

OK only kidding.

I do not have ANY plans on trying to make this revolver any sort of Magnum

But still, I am suprised at how pleasant it is to shoot...

This route is still probably the best as you can pretty much load it any way you please (within reason of course):



My Bisley .45 Colt has proven accurate, economical, and reliable. What's not to like?

Whitworth

No doubt the Rugers are rugged revolvers. I have been using a 44 Mag SuperBlackhawk since 1970.

However, they are just not the same as a Colt or Colt style SAA.

Besides being an iconic classic, the Colt SAA is a lot smaller and lighter.

It is more neat, sweet, and petite.

You forgot fragile......

Actually if you read Ed McGivern, he talkes about how rugged the Colt SAA was durrinig his tests, which included a lot of fanning and slip shooting.

I think where the fragile business started, was with the foreign clones, and when Colts quality started to suffer.

The USFA's with the American internal parts are supposed to be pretty rugged, as are the guns fitted by Turnbull.

Now the Colt sized SAA's will not take a steady shooting of hot Elmer Keith type loads, and the current +P type loads should not be shot in the revolver at all.

No doubt the Ruger is a LOT stronger and a LOT more rugged,even more so that the S&W double actions.

For what I want this revolver for I prefered the Colt SAA style, and size.

I do not plan to load it hot, nothing hotter than the loads in the Lyman 45th Edition Reloading Handbook

Starting out for plinking loads I am ging to shoot some ammo from Ultramax, I just recieved some of their 250gr loads at 730fps, and I have a box of Hornady Cowboy loads, I have shot a few of them off my back deck,and I will test and see which shoots the best, and get a bunch of them.

For a urban defense load I will thest the loads I listed above and again see which shoots the best, and get some of them.

I also plan to test the Buffalo Bore 225 full wadcutter and the BB 255 hard cast SWC, and pick one of them for my field load, untill I get enough brass and some Keith SWC cast bullets around 250 to 255 grains.

Then I plan to start with8 grains of Uunique and work up untill I have the accuracy and power level I want for my field load.
The Lyman book shows 10gr as max with 255gr bullet, velocity 1011fps, shot out of a 5 1/2" Colt SAA.

I am going to try and find some REAL Keith cast 45 Colt bullets.

Does anybody have any recommentations?

I talk to Dick Casull quite frequently and he hurt more than his fair share of Colt SAAs. Keep in mind that even in original blackpowder form, the .45 Colt was no slouch.

Right, even Elmer damaged a 45 Colt SAA, which is one reason he went to the 44 Special.

I do not plan on hurting my SAA, if I need more power than a 250/255gr bullet at @950fps then I can always go to a 44 Mag or a 475L.

This revolver seems to shoot spot on with a 200gr bullet at around 850 to 900, so when I get enough brass I will load up a bunch of them for plinking, and save the heavier loads for actual field use.

I also managed to find some CCI/Speer shotshells,so I am good to go for snakes and small game.