For an antihuman load, I'd pick the Wincherter Silvertip. For "whatever is around the next corner" load, I'd use a 240 to 260 grain cast lead bullet at 1300 fps. My only use of .429 bullets in self defense, from a .44 Special, indicated to me it worked about like the .45 ACP with hard ball. A 240 grain cast at 1000 fps isn't difficult to control in recoil and will penetrate well in 500+ pound animals. Good placement is the issue, not maximum loads, in my opinion.

Reed, If you are rifle hunting for your elk it occurs to me you are pretty well armed already. Perhaps you are bowhunting? FWIW I've had good luck in Africa with a 325 LBT WFN over a maximum charge of H110 but it is not the sort of load one uses in a hurry fired from a beltgun. Phil Shoemaker had an interesting take on bear defense pistols in a recent issue of Handloader or Rifle; inasmuch as only a CNS hit is going to stop a bear attack quickly enough to matter he has settled on standard weight FMJ bullet handloads for effective penetration and faster followup shots. Good hunting! McB

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the replies to date. I am rifle hunting for elk but envision a lot of time where the rifle will be leaning against a tree, in a scabbard, essentially a lot of cases where it won't be handy, hence the desire to have a suitably powerful carry side-arm. Who knows, if the opportunity presented itself I might even use it on the elk?

I've considered that super light-weight S&W 329 but have lately been leaning toward the S&W Mountain Gun. Mostly one finds these in 44 Mag but I've also found one in 45 Colt that I'm very interested in as well. I find myself thinking the 45LC is a much better caliber selection than the 44 Mag. I also like the fact that this is a double action 45LC whereas most everything else available is single action or else not stainless steel which I prefer over carbon steel heavily.

Anyway, I'll most likely choose some type of handload since I appear to be allergic to factory ammo.

Thanks again for the information.

Reed

The Smith MG in .45 Colt I have will not handle the heavy loads. About 1000 fps with a 250 gr cast is all it will take without sticky extraction.

The .44 MG will handle the 300 gr. lead SWC loads with 21.5 gr. of H-110/296 a lot better than my arm does. That is the gun/load I would choose if I were going to carry a MG for protection against bears.

Reed - First of all...Hello!. I don't often see your name on this board, but I happened to run across it on this topic. BTW, that 24x Leupold is doing the trick nicely.

I think that either choice of .44mag or .45LC is a good one. Bullet choice here is the most important as you've probably already gathered. A heavy cast bullet with a large meplat is preferrable to create a serious killing bullet as you're not concerned with external ballistics only short range power. That heavy cast will give you the penetration that you need via high sectional density. I've loaded some 320gr cast bullets for the .44 mag with something like 8gr of Unique. I haven't had the opportunity to chronograph them but I was going for around 1000fps. Velocity doesn't really add that much to penetration so you should be able to get by nicely with anyting in the 900-1200 fps range depending upon what you and your gun can handle. In an effort to keep recoil and muzzle blast to a minimum, I'd use a powder between Unique and Blue Dot...anything near maximum or use a ball powder and you'll have yourself a full fledged Roman candle!

I have a 4-inch model 29 that handles heavy loads just fine (not as heavy, perhaps, as a Redhawk, but full magnum loads nonetheless.) The Mountain gun in .45 Colt will not handle heavy loads, as mentioned before. If it will handle a hardcast 250 - 300 gr flat-nosed bullet at about 1000 fps, that is the least I would want for a bear.



I have shot lots of California hogs, and the only boar over 250 pounds that I shot with the 240 Remington HSP resulted in poor performance by the bullet. It mushroomed perfectly, but did not penetrate the gristle plate over the boar's shoulder at 20 yards. I cannot recommend that bullet for anything heavier than deer. The 240 JSP (no hollow point) Remington bullet is much better, but I like a heavy hardcast or the Sierra FPJ 250 gr best for heavily built game.

I agree with Frank.If it's your second firearm it is to bulkie and heavy to mess with.Whatever firearm your using for Elk will certainly take care of anyother critters.But if your bow hunting and can carry a side arm that is a different matter.I have a .454 that I carry when I don't have a rifle and use a 300 grain Speer Unicore as a jacketed and 335 and 360 grain hardcast.

Good luck on your hunt.Jayco.

Reed, I don't mean to rain on your parade but if you plan on hunting in Wyoming with a sidearm you best brush up on our regulations. Wyoming has minimum energy requirement for handguns used to take big game animals. I seem to recall it being 500 foot pounds at 100 yards. Game & Fish goes strictly by published factory ballistics, so a 45 LC or a 357 mag won't cut it no matter how fast you handload them. The local warden tells me that even if you are only finnishing off a wounded animal every bullet in that animal better be from a legal firearm. I personally carry a 44 mag but I know others that speak highly of the 454. Good Luck on your hunt. - Kurt - Oh yeah, one other thing, I agree with Frank I don't carry a revolver when I'm out hunting with a rifle but when I go back to haul out the meat then I carry a revolver and leave the rifle in camp.

When I carry a sidearm in S.E. Alaska for bear protection, it's my S&W 629 w/6" bbl. I will carry it alone when fishing streams and or as backup when rifle hunting. Generally, If I bring my .338 or .375, I don't feel a handgun is all that necessary, but there are plenty on instances when a fellow gets jumped by a bear a seperated from his primary weapon. Fists and knives don't make very good bear weapons!!!

Anyho, I've always used 300 gr bullets. The Sierra jacketed is a good one, but I do prefer factory hard casts - only because I don't cast my own.

20.5 to 21.0 gr H110 is a stout load - 21.0 gr gives 1,250 fps

21.0 gr IMR 4227 is my preferred load - gives 1,200 fps

I much prefer 4227 to H110 and this is why: I find H110/W296 gives a big fireball and significant muzzle flip. 4227 is much more comfortable and managable and I only lose 50 fps in velocity.

I really would love to get the XS express sights for this gun as I don't really care for the factory sights.

No, I have not ever shot or needed to shoot at any bears with this gun. I did kill a nearly 6-foot black bear with my M686 and 140 gr jacketed HP's - that was a fiasco!!!

kalbrecht, thanks for the info. This is only a secondary weapon. The primary weapon will be my 308 Norma rifle. Quite frankly if it ends up getting used, God forbid, the Wyoming regulations will be about the last thing on my mind...I'll hope whatever I do ends up working and then I'll head straight to camp for fresh underwear...

MuskegMan, I sure do agree with you on H110. I did some rather extensive testing with 44Mag loads awhile back and there were several instances where H110 FELT very hot, i.e. big recoil, yet the chrono didn't indicate any increased performance compared to other powders. It seems to make it feel 'bigger' than it really is I guess. Suffice it to say, if I can sling a 240g bullet out of the 44mag at say 1200fps with H110 and a LOT of felt recoil, yet turn around and sling the SAME bullet at 1200fps with another type of powder but with much LESS felt recoil, well call me a wimp but I'm using the load with less felt recoil.

Thanks for the replies.

Reed