quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
That is true Whitworth but it is because the nose on jacketed is just too small even if plugged up.
You could pour lead in the cavity but the meplat is still too small. It is close to a round nose.
Those funny bullets NEED to expand!

Some hollow points are very wide and I can tell you from expereince that a hollow point that doesn't expand is not the same as a flat point. The amount of damage is not the same.

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Some hollow points are very wide and I can tell you from expereince that a hollow point that doesn't expand is not the same as a flat point. The amount of damage is not the same.

This is so true and I agree with you 100%. The big thing is that even those that seem wide are not as good as a WLN or WFP.
I have never seen a hollow point bullet as wide as a WLN.
If you notice, the hollow point on most jacketed revolver bullets is just a little cup. They are made for controlled expansion within certain velocity ranges and go both ways. Too tough and slow, zero expansion. Too weak and fast, over expansion.

whit.......the cast bullets that broke apart were two different 475 linebaugh factory loads at about 1350 fps and one 45/70 load which was in the 1800's. one of the 475's was on a buff shoulder bone, and the other 475 and 45/70 were on elk shoulder bones. so two pushed not too fast and one pushed faster than i think a cast bullet should be pushed. oddly enough, it wasn't long after these hunts that i read about the disasterous cape buff hunt with a 475 in which the bullets broke apart repeatedly and it took well over 5 shots to finally put it down. that said, i've never had a beartooth bullet break apart pushed to any speed. i've run 340's out of my casull at 1800+ fps and hit large bone with them and they've not broken apart, just a mild flattenening when pried out of whatever the backstop was behind the target it went through. i'm a big fan of their bullets and just ordered another couple thousand or so.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

quote:

Some hollow points are very wide and I can tell you from expereince that a hollow point that doesn't expand is not the same as a flat point. The amount of damage is not the same.

This is so true and I agree with you 100%. The big thing is that even those that seem wide are not as good as a WLN or WFP.
I have never seen a hollow point bullet as wide as a WLN.
If you notice, the hollow point on most jacketed revolver bullets is just a little cup. They are made for controlled expansion within certain velocity ranges and go both ways. Too tough and slow, zero expansion. Too weak and fast, over expansion.

The old Speer "flying ashtray's" were and so are the Barnes XPB 185 grain in 45 caliber

Why did they stop the Flying 'Ash trays'. They were friggin great!

well - the marsh hare didn't notice no expansion and the bullet was the last thing to go through her mind ... at 35 or so yards, through thickette- 45 LC sw 625-9

Excellent, Jeffe! That's good bunny medicine!

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he old Speer "flying ashtray's" were and so are the Barnes XPB 185 grain in 45 caliber

The Barns does have a wide nose but it is an EXPANDING bullet. However, even if it did not, it would still be good. The old Speer was good without expansion but it is gone.
The current crop of hollow points are all still designed around a certain velocity and some are not even a hollow point per say, just a cup point. The nose is too small to work by itself if it does not upset.
It always comes down to what the bullet or boolit action is inside an animal.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:

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Melt some candle wax into the hollow point and try the test again. It works well with the XPBs.

Just like being packed full of any other material. If the point does not expand at all, you have a flat point with a meplat.
If the wax initiates expansion, then you have a hollow point. But after expansion, you will have a measurable meplat.
If the bullet does not expand, what matter is it what the cavity is filled with?

The wax acts as a hydraulic force and causes rapid expansion, unlike dry mediums like dirt, sand, or fur, which cause no expansion (with copper bullets)

Like I said, just try it out for giggles.

Jeff, I guess I should have clarrified myself. I loved the 'Flying Ashtrays' for the 45 ACP, not for a hunting load. They were badass in the .45ACP!, but not for hunting critters other than human. They grouped great out of my Colt 45ACP, Sorry for the confussion.