I have a gunsand ammo mag of the 80s i think that have an article about bufalo hunting and elephant hunting with a 44magnum written by larry kelly he used tugsten bullets .i killed water bufalos with a 44magnum but elephents are another matter what do you think has someone read the article.juan

I think you are right or it was JD Jones. The hunt was written about also in his book about handgun hunting that he wrote with JD Jones. Another gentleman (Otto ?) harvested an elephant with a 475 also.



Hcliff

no im sure was larry kelly but ill try to find the mag and post later they were in rhodesia in a culling operation .juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar

You are correct, it was Larry Kelly. I'm not so sure JD hasn't taken an elephant with a .44 also.

I've read the article & while I'm sure it can be done, whether it should or not is another story. I think ele have been taken w/ a bow as well, but??????????????????

NE450No2 who post here shot 3 elephants with his .450 double rifle this past summer in Africa. He also test shot the heads with his 4" S&W M29 .44 Magnum with the 320 grain Buffalo Bore loads. He said there was more than enough penetration to kill an elephant. Last time we talked he is planning to go back in the summer of 05 or 06 and shoot a cow with the .44. Bob

I was a cadet officer in the Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) parks department when Ollie Coltman took Larry after lion & Elephant. He used a .44mag, with tungsten cored bullets. Took a cow and then a good bull with side brain shots.

In 1996 I demonstrated to our department how effective a handgun could be (we were trying to get handgun hunting legalised again after it was unintentionally baned in 1990). I used a .41 mag with tungsten cored bullets made by Carlos de Fratos. 250grn at 1350fps. They worked for a side brain and woild proabably be fine for a heart lung shot provided the leg wasn't hit (have to wait for the ele to walk and then shoot behind the leg). I dropped one ele and one buff on the matusadona floodplain as a demo to the senior officers. I then tried a combination of different loads on both animals.

On a cow, the tungsten cored bullet would do for a frontal brain shot- provided you don't hit the tusk base. On a bull- no. Same applies for a side heart shot through the leg.

I also tried a combination of hard cast bullets. On buff they are fine. Also for an ele cow on a side brain.

Ganyana...very interesting. At what distance were your shots made? Why the tungsten core?

TIA

Hunter20ga

Hi Hunter.

Shot the ele at 12 paces and the buff at 24. Why the tungsten core? Because I couldn't get a decent steel jacketed round nosed solid for my handgun! Olie and larry did alot of experimenting on a couple of bug boddied bulls that Larry shot with a rifle before he went out and tried it with a handgun. Larry had some 300grn .44 lead bullets that had been hardened by dropping them into water. They had a BHN of 30 and were much less brittle than lynotype (they were lyman No 2 base). They were ok on a side brain provided the Zygomatic arch wasn't hit. To be sure of not hitting the arch you have to either be on higer ground or shoot from 30+ metres away. Larry didn't want to take the chance. He had also bought some jacketed bullets from the states. They were alot better than lead.

Living in the 4th world I was just easier to get Carlos to make up some tungsten cores , put them in the normal mold and cast a lead driving band around them than try and import special swaging equipment just for one demo. Now Zimbabwe has legislated that river guides have to carry a handgun, hopefully we will see a better selection of suitable bullets.

the magazine was from may 1981 larry kelly hunted with ph don price of kudulands safari he used jdjones ktwbronze bullets with a cavity there a nucleo of tugsten and all the bullet was covered by teflon 208grains at 1500feets per second,he used a 375jdj too.the elephant was shooted first with the 375jdj and then with the 44mag he said that the job was done by the 44.juan www.huntinginargentina.com.ar

I used a 4" S&W and 310gr. Garrett Hammer Heads. I shot the elephants side brain shot above the "Z" arch. Next time I go to ZIM I will try to take one with the 44, side brain shot.

thats incredible, i killed water bufalos but elephants please post some photos .congratulations you are a real handgunner.juan

juanpossi...I think you misunderstood NE...the elephants were already dead....he shot them with a rifle and then just tested the handgun on the body. He is going to try and shoot one with the .44 on his next trip...I may have to be there for that one.....Bob

RJM is correct, I was testing the 44 on a dead elephant cow. The PH was impressed, even he said next time we will try the revolver. I know it will work on a side brain shot on a cow elephant. I will do a test on a frontal shot when I can.

I must say that any time you try a brain shot on an elephant you should be ready for an IMMEDIATE back up body shot to be fired, either by you with your rifle, or in the case of a handgun hunter, by your PH or buddy if present. You must accept the fact if the brain shot is not perfect the elephant can run off or attack. Additional shots should be fired by all present to bring the animal down. It is not proper to let a wounded animal escape.

If I do/did not think I could do the job with the 44 I would not use it. If the shot is not right I will not take it. I respect the elephant too much to take a chance with a "pot shot", either with a rifle or a pistol.



I also did a test shot into the head of my Buff cow, the bullet went through the brain pan down into the neck. I have no doubt that the 44 with Garretts Hammer heads would penetrate into the brain killing the buff before he could get to you.

I felt real good having the 44 in Africa.



Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I FEAR NO EVIL, for my 44 Mag is with me. Its heavy hard cast bullets [and Speer shot shells in snake country] comfort me, All the days of my hunt.



A few days ago I was almost bit by a rattle snake when walking back to my vehicle in the dark in North Texas. I had not loaded any Speer shotshells in the 44 [can you say dumbass ] but I was able to take his head off with a 270 Speer soft point at about half a step. While I am a pretty good shot with a pistol it pays to be lucky too.

I never go anywhere afield [OK except for a Canadian Bear hunt, and I missed having the 44 for sure] without my 44 Mag.

I know some people on AR do not put much faith in a handgun.... But a COMPETENT pistolero can walk anywhere without fear, even Jurassic Park, WITH A GOOD REVOLVER AND THE RIGHT AMMO.

i always carry a glock40sw with fiocchi major factor fmj truncated cone and in the field asw 62944magmun perhaps ill buy a 454casull what do you think i killed a lot of bufalos with revolver look at hunting mag forums there are some photos there ill try to post them here.juan

Juaun,
You are right about Larry Kelly using KTW solids on elephant, I had a chance to talk to Larry a year or two ago about this and he told me that his P.H. had him shoot 1/2" mild steel with the KTW's and upon seeing the results told Larry "that's good enough". It was after speaking with Larry about his many hunting exploits and listening to his reasons for not using cast bullets that I began, in earnest looking to find answers to making the best big game solid that I could. After lots of research both armchair and physical testing I settled on a design with the creator of the cavitator bullet and now produce these for myself and some friends. Yes they do out penetrate just about any 44 bullet made and I do believe the secret is in that pesky cavitator nose. If you would like to give some of these a try on your "vermin" buffs in Argentina judt drop me a P.M. and I will be glad to send you some. My best to you guys and sorry my first post on this forum was so long. Steve