What about this new caliber from S&W? I understand it will also shoot the 454 casull. I looked at the rnds today.Them things are big.It shoots a 200 gr at 2300FPS could you load a bigger bullet in that case or do you half to stick with the 454 for the heavy bullets?How is the recoil also? 1,000 bucks is a high price to me. Gun looks cool.

By next elk season, I'll have mine zero'ed and ready to go. With a little luck, I hope to draw blood on a spring bear this year. They are a hand full!

The 460 smith and Wesson will not be able to handle heavy bullets because of it powder capacity. You will have to drop down to the 454 Casull in order to shoot the heavy weighs.

The 454 will be able to do more with the heavier bullets.
the 460 has to push all that powder so it will be behind on the heavies.

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
The 460 smith and Wesson will not be able to handle heavy bullets because of it powder capacity. You will have to drop down to the 454 Casull in order to shoot the heavy weighs.

The 454 will be able to do more with the heavier bullets.
the 460 has to push all that powder so it will be behind on the heavies.

You are so far off base it is not funny. The 460 Mag will shoot any bullet made for the 454 Casull and at a faster feet per second. I am loading 260 gr. bullets and they are smoking out of my 460 Mag. The same 260 gr. in my 454 Casull uses 10.5 gr's. less powder then the 460 Mag. Here is my load for the 460 Mag. 45.5 gr. of H 110 compared to 35.0 gr. of H 110 for the 454 Casull. Also you won't find many if any 454 Casull rounds that will shoot a 395 gr. bullet like the 460 Mag will.

Go here and look at the data. the 460 Mag loaded with 395 gr. bullets. http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/460swmag.php

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
What about this new caliber from S&W? I understand it will also shoot the 454 casull. I looked at the rnds today.Them things are big.It shoots a 200 gr at 2300FPS could you load a bigger bullet in that case or do you half to stick with the 454 for the heavy bullets?How is the recoil also? 1,000 bucks is a high price to me. Gun looks cool.

The guns are will worth the close to $1000.00 in my opinion. I have two of the 460 Mag PC models and paid $1219.00 for each. My post above shows how the 460 Mag out performers the 454 Casull. Also, the 454 Casulls in the 460 Mag are very mild in my opinion. The weight of the gun and the compensator tame the recoil even on the 460 Mag.

It is a simple law of physics. When a cartridge has a large quanity of powder to push it is overtaxed trying to push a heavy bullet. that is why a 460 will not be as good at it as a 454 Casull.
Less powder equals more power with a heavier bullet.
There is less for the less powder to push when you combine it with a heavier bullet.

quote:

It is a simple law of physics. When a cartridge has a large quanity of powder to push it is overtaxed trying to push a heavy bullet. that is why a 460 will not be as good at it as a 454 Casull.
Less powder equals more power with a heavier bullet.
There is less for the less powder to push when you combine it with a heavier bullet.

Can somebody translate this into layman's terms?
Physics was never my strong suit. But this doesn't even require maths.

I don't know why this so hard to understand. More powder means more weight. More weight to push ups pressure because it takes more pressure to push more weight.
When you are limited in pressure allowances you can have only so much weight. Heavy powder charge plus heavy bullet equals pressure that is over saami specs. That is the reason for the lighter bullet in the 460.
Light bullet plus heavy powder charge equals normal pressure
That is the reason the 458 win Mag is better than the 458 Lott when it comes to bullets heavier than 500 grains.

[

quote:

It is a simple law of physics. When a cartridge has a large quanity of powder to push it is overtaxed trying to push a heavy bullet. that is why a 460 will not be as good at it as a 454 Casull.
Less powder equals more power with a heavier bullet.
There is less for the less powder to push when

you combine it with a heavier bullet.

**Simply put Meplat does NOT know what he is talking about,stay clear of listening to him PERIOD.

Sean

Is there a better way to explain the situation of light bullet heavy power charge and heavy bullet light powder charge.

It is easy to make inuendoes and say I don't know but can anyone else come up with a better explanation
This all very hurtful and not nice at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
Is there a better way to explain the situation of light bullet heavy power charge and heavy bullet light powder charge.

It is easy to make inuendoes and say I don't know but can anyone else come up with a better explanation
This all very hurtful and not nice at all.

#1)I prefer to say I dont know something rather than make up an answer.
#2) I am not sure were you got the light bullet/heavy bullet theory from??
I do know that when you use light bullet per caliber there is a level were adding more powder does you NO good(no velocity gain).I believe the bullet weight does not offer enough resistence to burn all the powder).With heavy bullets you do not have this problem.
As to being hurtful,I apologize

**If you can find John Linebaughs website it has a ton of useful info.
www.linebaughcustom.com this might be it.

Sean

Me_Plat, you lost me on your win mag vs Lott example. The win mag is already struggling with too little case capacity when using a 500 grain bullet, whereas the Lott is not. How does reducing case capacity help push a bullet faster?? Sorry, not following your line of reasoning. Please explain again.

Redhawk1. What kind of performance are you getting from your S&W 460's in terms of accuracy with heavy loads? How comfortable are they to shoot? I have been toying with the idea of getting one. Any suggestions about barrel length. How nuch do these things weigh?
Thanks, Peter.

Me_Plat....I minored in physics in college, so I know something about the science. In short, you're clueless about powder weights and velocity. Answer me this....why does a .357 Magnum propel a 158 grain bullet faster than the same slug in a .38 S&W? When answering, ask yourself how much pressure is needed to drive a 158 grain bullet to 1,400 fps.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

Hey Me_Plat Lee Martin states so plainly I doubt you'll step up to the plate...... I already have a 44 mag.I'm debateing in my head that just cause I don't have a use for one doesn't mean I shouldn't buy one.

Peter,
You may find this forum has a good deal more information about the 460.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/
Cheers

LeeMartin: Certainly I will answer your question concerning the 357 and the 38 Special.

The 357 runs around 2 times the chamber npressure than the 38 special plus uses different powders.

The 454 Casull and the 460 Smith and Wesson as I remember runs close to the same Saami Spec psi. of 65000 psi. Now I wouldn't want to run 130000 psi in a 460 Smith and Wesson would you?

If you want too than that is your business but to try and give the impression that if the 357 can do it that it is alright with the 460 is not being very safe it seems to me.

Ok maybe I'll pick one up(S&W 460) where can I get brass? Saw some factory stuff for $69.95 for 20 rnds. There is no way I'm going to buy that stuff.

I tell you what Me_Plat.....you shoot a 395 grain bullet @ 1,700 fps out of a .454 Casull (at under 65,000 PSI) and then I'll listen to your babble.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
Ok maybe I'll pick one up(S&W 460) where can I get brass? Saw some factory stuff for $69.95 for 20 rnds. There is no way I'm going to buy that stuff.

Friend, your ammo dealer is ripping you off. I pay about twenty-one bucks for a box of twenty.

Wow Does your gun shop have Mail order service? Again where can I get brass for this new cartridge?

quote:

Originally posted by IronWorker378:
Ok maybe I'll pick one up(S&W 460) where can I get brass? Saw some factory stuff for $69.95 for 20 rnds. There is no way I'm going to buy that stuff.

You are looking at Corbons over priced ammo, You can get Hornady rounds for $20.00 to $21.00 for 20 rounds. Also you can get brass at MidwayUSA. I reload also.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Redhawk1. What kind of performance are you getting from your S&W 460's in terms of accuracy with heavy loads? How comfortable are they to shoot? I have been toying with the idea of getting one. Any suggestions about barrel length. How nuch do these things weigh?
Thanks, Peter.

Peter, at 50 yards I get one large hole with my 260 gr. Nosler Partitions. My accuracy is great, at 100 yards I am getting 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups. With both my 240 gr. Hornady XTP's and the 260 gr. Nosler partitions. The gun shoots better than I can. I am ordering some 300 gr. hard cast bullets from Ranger Rick to try. As far as weight it is Weight Empty: 72.5 oz. and really helps with the recoil. I have owned the 8 3/8, 10.5 and now own two of the 7.5 inch PC models. I prefer the 7.5 in barrel lengths. I find the 460 Mags very comfortable to shoot and felt recoil is very manageable. The only thing is, it has a lot of muzzle flash and they are loud. Heavy bullets shoot very well in the 460 Mag. Just ask anyone that shoots them not someone that thinks they don't but has not shot a 460 Mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
It is a simple law of physics. When a cartridge has a large quanity of powder to push it is overtaxed trying to push a heavy bullet. that is why a 460 will not be as good at it as a 454 Casull.
Less powder equals more power with a heavier bullet.
There is less for the less powder to push when you combine it with a heavier bullet.

Me_Plat WHAT!!!! You know when you dig yourself in to deep the first thing to do is get rid of the shovel. You don't have a clue my friend. I sure hope you don't reload.

me-plat is very very right thats how come the 38spl and the 44spl shoot the heavy bullets so much better than the 357mag and the 44mag and faster to

quote:

Originally posted by Me_Plat:
LeeMartin: Certainly I will answer your question concerning the 357 and the 38 Special.

The 357 runs around 2 times the chamber npressure than the 38 special plus uses different powders.

The 454 Casull and the 460 Smith and Wesson as I remember runs close to the same Saami Spec psi. of 65000 psi. Now I wouldn't want to run 130000 psi in a 460 Smith and Wesson would you?

If you want too than that is your business but to try and give the impression that if the 357 can do it that it is alright with the 460 is not being very safe it seems to me.

One big thing about the 460 compared to the 454 Casull is, the 395 gr. bullet would take up most of the 454 Case and leave no room for powder. Now do you understand that concept. The 460 Mag has enough room for powder and the bullets and still work under the Saami Spec psi. of 65000 psi. It is very easy, and if you understand simple law of physics, that one should be a no brainier for you.

The reason why the 44 Mag shoots faster than the 44 Special is because it operates at roughly twice the pressure as does the 357 compared to the 38 Special.
Who wants to run 130,000 psi in a 460? Not me for one.
Sure when you double the pressure over an existing cartridge you will get an increase. I know that but when you are running horrendous pressures in the first place (454 Casull) who would in their right mind would want to double them (460 s&W) to gain a few FPS?
The answer is obvious to anyone once they look at the equation thourghly.
Giving bad examples to try to prove your point and then getting mad when they are shot down is poor policy. It is the giver of the bad examples that are at fault.
Get mad at yourselves.

Hey Me_Plat or whatever. You need to see a shrink. Look at your signature for one thing.Not only don't you care about facts your in Denial. Any how a 357 or a 44mag does not operate the twice the pressure. You wrong on everything!@@$$%^&*&(*())__)((*&^$#!@!

IRONWORKER378 If you will look on page 518 or the speer reloading manual 13 it says that the standard 38 special industry pressure is 17,000 psi
On page 526 it says that the 357 mag operates at 35,000 psi.
On page 554 it says that the 44 special operates at 15,500 Psi. on page561 it says that the 44 Mag operates at 36,000psi.

Where did I go wrong on the pressures? Are they not at least twice as high? They sure aren't lower unless you are challenged in understanding what high and low means.

Also quoting the Bible at the bottom of your posts and then using symbols for cuss words are a bad testimony for whatever flavor religion that you profess to be.
May you find the patience to calm yourself and find the inner peace to free yourself from using foul language and to keep your thoughts pure.

Me_Plat,

One last question and then I'm done. Go to Hodgdon's website and compare the .454 Casull to the .460 S&W. Now explain the following from their tests:

.454 Casull (9.4" test barrel):
30.0 grs of H110 with a 300 grain bullet goes 1,716 fps @ 53,700 CUP

.460 S&W (10.5" barrel)
42.5 grs of H110 with a 300 grain bullet goes 2,034 fps @ 56,100 CUP

So tell me how a 6% increase in pressure gets you an additional 19% fps with the same bullet and the same powder (the extra 1" of barrel is probably only good for 40 - 70 fps). Where are we doubling pressure to achieve another 300 fps? How does a 40% increase in H110 only translate into a 6% rise in pressure? (I'll give you the answer....'increased case volume'). Now granted, the .454 may be more efficient from the standpoint of how much powder is burned, but the larger case does outperform the smaller one. The same holds for .45-70 BFRs....they're able to duplicate 60,000 CUP .454 loads at 35,000 - 40,000 CUP.

The funny thing is, I personally like the .454 better than the .460 due to the smaller package....that being said, I can't deny the performance returned by the big S&W.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

Mr. Martin: It is being done with the gain twist barrels. The bullet meets very little resistance upon first entering the barrel. As it moves farther down the barrel the rifling gets steeper but by then the pressure has dropped off to the point that what would have been catastrophic pressures are then controlled to the point they are no more than the 454 Casull. Its sort of like a very very long freebore but with a nearly straight system of lands and grooves.
It has long been know that the longer the free bore the heavier the payload can be.
One must get on the with the program to under stand it. You being a highly educated person must know this.
I know that you are being kind to the original poster by going along with the heavier bullet heavy powder charge equaling more velocity but try to put him into perspective so he will understand it.
Must we keep everyone in the dark just to be nice to ironworker378?
Besides Hodgdons used a solid breech barrel for testing. A revolver will get much less than they report.
thats alright if that is what you want but don't try to convince everyone that there is something for nothing.

I never said my last sentence was cuss words.You did.

OK, I'm not done....I completely understand gain twist theory as well as how Hodgdon performs their tests (btw, they use breach blocks for all their rounds to include the .454). Secondly, the .454 also uses very slow twist for added velocity....usually 1:24". Most are also throated.

What we're all arguing is that you stated the .460 can't handle heavy bullets....the tests prove otherwise. You also state that you'll need to drop down to .454 Casull to effectively shoot heavy bullets. So again, tell me how I can use the .454 case in an X-Frame 460 (with gain twist) to hit 1,700 fps with a 395 grain slug?

While you're at it, let me address your comment about the .458 Winchester and the .458 Lott. I own a .458 as well as a custom .450 Ackley (just an improved Lott). Both have 23" Shilen barrels with identical twist (I should know cause I built both rifles). With 500's, the .458 Win tops out at 2,050 fps; the Ackley does 2,370 fps with the same bullet and powder type (pressure is within 5% of one another). Explanation? Increased case volume and increased powder charge.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

It's been fun. You guys have proven you will argue with anyone.
I just wanted to see how far this would go and it is at roughly 30 post now arguing about some horse manure that I dreamed up. How far would it have went?
And to beat it all it was pure horse crap from the beginning.
Good night and have a good laugh.
Just don't take offense at being jerked alittle.

IRONWORKER378 If they were words you didn't mind saying and were proper why did you use symbols for them like they were trash mouth talking?

He baited you guys into that one. MePlat is a well known troll. All his posts are nonsense. Just ignore him. He's not worth wasting time on.

The best thing to do is ignore the troll. Stupidity runs in his family.

IronWorker378 and Peter, if you want more good information PM me.

Why do I half to have a reason?!@#$%^&*()_

If loaded to equal pressures, the 458 Lott will push a 500 grain bullet faster than a 458 Win mag.

If loaded to equal pressures, the 357 Magnum will still push a 158 grain bullet faster than a 38 Special.

If loaded to equal pressures, the 460 S&W will push a 300 grain bullet faster than a 454 Casull.

Why? -Or- What's the common thread between the six aforementioned cartridges?
Assuming equal pressure, the longer case that enables you to burn more powder will always generate more velocity. This isn't physics, rocket science, or black magic, its a fact.

Simply put, the more powder you burn, the more energy the combustion will create and the more speed you'll get. This is very simple science and requires neither a slide rule or computer to figure out. The facts are irrefutable and the results are pointless to argue...

Ha, ha, ha; i should have visited here sooner to boast of the superior heavy bullet performance of the 45 Auto Rim.