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Gentlemen, I have on the chopping block one 5 ½” 44 magnum Bisley stainless that I have been wanting to convert for a long time. I would like a 45 LC in 4 5/8” or 5 ½” with a oversized 6 shot cylinder or a 5 shot cylinder. I also would like a 500 JRH with the standard S&W rim diameter. What are your thoughts? Speaking of the 500 JRH maybe some of you could help with some questions… The BFR in 500 JRH is it the standard S&W rim? How much more does it weigh compared to a Ruger? How does the grip feel under recoil (without the rubber grips)? Ruger or BFR in the case of the 500? Regards, smallfry I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | ||
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First off, your Stainless Ruger Bisley in 44 is a pretty good gun. If you purchased an identical one in 45 Colt( williams shooters supply still had em ) You can run a 340 grain bullet at 1200+ fps all day long at less than 30,000 chamber pressure. Not trying to discourage you if you want a "big" 45. Just making an observation from one who has been there and now back again. The oversize 6 shot will do anything, and the 5 shot is more ( just make it a 454 ). When I get to that point, I look for a heavier hammer. ( 475 or 500 ) The BFR is a bit heavier than the Ruger as they have made the frame considerably wider on the bottom. ( the reason why it is now an involved job to put a Bisley frame on a new BFR) As far as the grip frame goes, I still prefer the Bisley though that is not the preference of some. I have no experience with the JRH, but I can recommend the 475 Linebaugh or 500 Linebaugh if you really want to step up a bit in horsepower. | |||
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The BFR in .500 JRH is wonderful. I use the .500 S&W Hornady dies and shell holder to load. I love the factory rubber grips and the .500 actually twists my wrist less then the .475. The JRH has much more horsepower then the .475 and might be the best of all the .500's. No, I hate Bisley grips. Those are the very last I will recommend and I never seen what the love affair is. Smooth, high polished pretty grips are not for real shooting. Do you shoot or drool and sleep with your gun? Save those for little guns with no recoil or the false "roll" in the hand junk. | |||
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I can say with absolute certainty, that you are the odd man out with regards to the Bisley grip frame. VERY few people share your disdain for the Bisley on heavy kickers. Hamilton Bowen won't even build you a .475 on up without a Bisley grip frame. Now I know your middle finger on your right hand precludes shooting a Bisley without getting bashed, but there are mods that can be performed on the Bisley to make some more space. That said, if the finger bashing is eliminated, the Bisley is still vastly superior to the plow handle in the way it handles recoil. For me at least, it offers a lot better control. JMHO. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Yes bfrshooter,with my new custom I shoot,sleep with and drool all over it. smallfry the 45colt will do anything most need in the lower 48, but the 500JRH is a nicer tool. Having recently acquired my first full out custom...everybody needs one.Here are two pics to make you ponder. The 45colt I done all the work and is a shooter.  This next one I can't take any credit for and is a 500JRH and it is absolutely fabulous  "If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence,try orderin' someone else's dog around" unknown cowboy | |||
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Different strokes for different folks as I agree with BFR about the Bisleys. Something in the frame hits the middle knuckle of my middle finger and it hurts. Have only tried one Bisley 45 Colt that is a recent purchase and it is a Ruger Bisley with the 5.5 barrel. I don't remember any of my SBH's biting into my finger like the Bisley does. Not trying to start an arguement just trying to point out the Bisley does not fit all hands well. But if your in the market for a 500 BRF I can't think of a better priced choice than a BFR with the 5.5 inch barrel. Depending on where you find one and then pay dealer transfers and shipping the street price seems to be about $900. As soon as I find one it will follow me home as I already purchased dies and just sent Jack Huntington a check for brass. Found a couple of prospects but none of the dealers advertising them would answer my emails and tell me if the revolver actually had the 5.5 and not the 7.5 inch barrel. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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So true but Whitworth brought over a Jack Huntington revolver that I might be able to shoot. His version is real good. Fingers with the Bisley is my problem too. I had a .44 hunter Bisley for two weeks, sold FAST. No gun hurts my hand and barrel rise means nothing if it raises your arms. It comes down to the trigger guard bashing you. Also the gun should never change position in your hand, shot to shot. There is not a single bit of proof that the Bisley handles recoil better and it can be more touchy to hold. The original Bisley was made for off hand with one hand with weak loads just for target. So if Mr. Bowen only makes a Bisley, I will never own one. | |||
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The proof is in the fact that most big-bore custom conversions are retrofitted with a Bisley grip frame. There is a reason for this and it's not a myth because you personally don't like them. Face it, Jim, you are the odd man out on this issue. More people prefer the Bisley on a heavy kicker than the plow handle (of any iteration). No need to argue about it. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I have one of the stainless 5-1/2" Ruger Bisleys with the unfluted, scroll-marked cylinder, and even though it does bump my middle finger under recoil, I prefer it to any single action grip I've ever used. A little discomfort to me is well worth the extra control and accuracy I get with the Bisley grip frame. I'm getting very nice groups with mine using 315 FN-GC bullets from Matt's over 18 gr of 4100 and WLP primers. I haven't chronoed them yet, but should be giving around 1125 fps, just a good, stout load. | |||
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Doubt, you'll be owning a Linebaugh either then. John L, makes his conversions on the Bisley grip, especially for the hard kicking Max cartridges. Only in your backwards world will a plowhandle grip shoot more comfortable than a Bisley for the hard kickers. Your knuckle notwithstanding; you are definitely the minority on this matter.  If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Gentlemen, Thanks for the replies. I like the idea of the 5 shot but have been leaning to an oversized cylinder 6 shot with a 4 5/8”. Might just but another Ruger Bisley stainless and have the frame opened up and the barrel shortened to 4 5/8”. That would leave me still with the 44 Bisley to keep or modify  . I have always wanted the 475 but the 500 suits my ideas as well and there are a lot of projectile choices.I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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Smallfry, Give John a call, 307-645-3332. Tell him Todd from Illinois sent you. | |||
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I guess I'm another one of the odd men out. I too detest Bisley grips. I have very large hands and have not yet found any way to keep my middle knuckle from being hammered unmercifully when I shoot my Ruger Bisley .45 Colt with 300 grain or heavier slugs. With custom grips which would fill the space between the front grip strap and the back of the trigger guard, it would probably be okay, but I just wish Hogue or Pachmayr would make some of their rubber grips for it. They would fill that space. If it is really THE grip for heavy recoil, I don't understand why neither Hogue or Pachmayr doesn't grab that market. Could it be because Bisleys aren't all that popular except with the Cowboy Action Shooting's light loads where Hogues or Pachmayrs aren't needed anyway? | |||
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I never liked the fact Pachmyer didn't make grips for the stainless steel Super Blackhawks. I have a Hogue on my silhouette Ruger. The .44 mag doesn't recoil so badly. I have found I prefer the micarta grips on my my .500 and .475 Linebaughs as the web of my hand is not rubbed raw from the rubber grabbing my skin during recoil. the old Dragoon grip frames are terrible on the knuckle of my middle finger with certain loads. I don't see where you are going with the "popular" remark. As I have pointed out before, if you have any of the top pistol smiths convert your revolver to a heavy kicker, it's gonna be with a Bisley grip frame. Jack lengthened the grip some, but it is still close to the Bisley configuration. One need only call and ask them why they do it. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Bisley Bisley Bisley............seems for the last couple of years it is the latest buzz word and trend. The reason I bought a Ruger Bisley 5.5 inch 45 Colt was to keep an open mind and try one. If my 45 Colt busted my finger up I would hate to shoot one in 475 or 500 Linebaugh. Non Bisley lovers try them and move on but the shooters who like them seem obsessed to convince others they are the best thing going. BFR seems to have the largest selection of regular production big bore revolvers on the market yet they don't offer a Bisley. Wonder why? I still contend each person is different. If you like the Bisley grip by all means go with it. Want a custom 500 built on a Bisley frame? Then enjoy the works of art and happy hunting. Neither of my S&W 500's are Bisleys and they don't bust my finger or hurt my hand. But the Bisley ain't the cure all for everyone. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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The latest buzz since introduction (Ruger's version) in 1986. I implore anyone who doesn't believe me here, to call John Gallagher, John and Dustin Linebaugh, Alan Harton, Gary Reeder, Jack Huntington, Jim Stroh, Hamilton Bowen, Dave Clements (shall I go on) and ask them what grip frame they 9 out of 10 times put on their big caliber conversions and then ask why. It's not a myth, or conjecture. The Bisley was a real breakthrough for custom gun builders as they finally had a grip frame that offered superior control when recoil levels climbed up to serious levels. Now, I know they aren't for everyone, particularly if all you are shooting is lukewarm .44 mag loads, but when you step into .475 Linebaugh territory in a 3-lb revolver, the Bisley makes it infinitely more controllable. I know plenty of folks who get their middle finger smacked, but there are solutions to that as well. BFR get's bombarded with Bisley requests, but it would end up costing them too much to make the change. Don't believe me, I can give you their production manager's number as well. Your .500 Smiths don't bust your fingers up for two reasons. One, they are double action revolvers and the recoil impulse is completely different than that of any single action revolver -- apples to oranges. Two, the .500 Smith X-frame is one of the largest, chunkiest, heaviest revolvers in production -- with a muzzle brake, and even loaded hot, doesn't really kick badly. It's relative, I know, but you need to shoot some seriously heavy kickers next to a .500 Smith and it will be obvious. How do I know? I had one (6 1/2-inch .500 Smith) and tested everything from 400 to 700 grain bullets and loads. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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As Whitworth pointed out, it's been the grip of choice for big bore single action conversions for nearly the past two decades. I agree all hands are different, but there is a very valid reason John Linebaugh departed from the plow handle grip early on when considering conversions to the heavy kickers. I have big hands,yet my Bisley grip frames with properly fitted micarta panels are not a problem to shoot well. I have many single action revolvers with plow handle grips, but they are not chambered for my heavy recoiling revolvers. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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The Bisley has been the "trend since introduction" for the realy big bore conversions. My middle knuckle is over 1" in one direction and .907 in the other direction and with stock grips and stock configuration my knuckle takes a servere beating. The cure is simple remove a few thousandts from the inside grip strap and a set of custom grips made to fit your hand and that includes the exact amount of palm swell for your hand and now no more banging knuckle. The plow handle grip is even worse in stock configuration and only becomes shootable with oversive grips that cover the back of the grip frame effectively changing the grip angle. This is not an option for me as my fingers are not long enough to properly postion my hand and still reach the trigger, so Bisley it is. Another great option is the modified plow handle grip configuration that Jack Huntionton performs. Comparing the recoil impulse of a double action revolver to a single is like comparing apples to grapes. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Valid points by both of you, but bottom line is for some shooters, including me, the Bisley simply does not work. But then again, I like rubber grips on big bore hunting handguns as well. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Have you shot any heavy kicking Ruger revolvers (.454 on up?) without a Bisley grip frame? Just curious how you liked them when they were sporting wood or Micarta. I ask because in the case of the rubber grips on the BFR, they change the grip angle considerably, to the point that the recoil dynamic changes significantly. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Nope, never shot a Ruger in any heavy caliber other then a SRH .454 My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Then you have no idea how effective the Bisley grip is for the heavy recoilers _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Your correct. As I stated in my first post here I was sharing knowledge with the Ruger Bisley 45 Colt. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Anyone ever shot a Bisley gripped .500 Maximum with REAL max loads, like over 500 grain bullets at over 1350 fps? Bisley is a target grip, and fine for the low recoil of the .475 Linebaugh and .500JRH. It sucks with Maximum loads. Feels like someone hit your palm with a baseball bat at 50 miles an hour, with 80 ft-lbs of energy. Feels like your hand is split in two. I think it has more to do with the grips being custom fitted to your hand size then the actual grip design. I've shot a BFR .500JRH with their grip design and custom grips for my hands. I LOVED it. Still the best for the lighter loads, like the .475 Linebaugh and .500JRH is an FA 83 grip with custom grips. Your mileage may vary. I'm really curious how some say their is a lot of difference between the .475 and .500JRH when you can use the same loading data for both? Saying the Bisley is the grip because gunsmiths choose it is a bit of a sketchy position. When the grip was originally used the tiny plow handles, with slim grips were terrible for heavy recoiling handguns. FA's grips worked great, but putting that grip on a Ruger was difficult. The ONLY grip that was cost effective was the Bisley. Plus it provides a nice chunk of change for the gunsmith to do the conversion, or put custom grips on it. It also made the fact that you just spent 4 times the cost of the gun on a conversion more identifiable to the owner. After all if you spend 2 grand trying to turn a Ruger into a FA you want SOMETHING that screams to the world, "Look!!! I have a cool, exclusive gun that you don't have! You can tell by my fancy grip frame!" It's more a choice because of a lack of a reasonable costing alternative. Kind of strange having more money in the grip and frame then the cost of the gun. It's nice to be able to buy a super high quality BFR in .475 Linebaugh and .500JRH without having to pay 2000-3000 dollars to convert a 500 dollar gun to a caliber it wasn't designed for. Jack Huntington's custom grip frame is a great idea, but first try the original frame with custom grips fitted to your hand size. Hands are unique and saying one simple solution fits all is stupid. | |||
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Dang, where to begin. First of all, Greg, is that you? Your commentary sure leads me to believe you are Greg. As a matter of fact I have shot Maximums with the Bisley grip frame (odd, that most of them are built with a Bisley grip frame). I put 50 525s at 1,350 through mine last weekend and not once did it connect with my middle finger. Huntington performs a small mod that gives you just a little more space between your knuckle and the trigger guard. Those loads generate roughly 64 ft-lbs of recoil energy, not 80. I believe you are exaggerating the severity of the Maximum's recoil. The Colt Bisley grip was indeed a target grip. Doesn't really resemble Ruger's version that much. I suggest you put two side by side and the differences will be obvious. Nothing at all "sketchy" about citing the fact that most custom revolver builders fit Bisleys to their large caliber conversions. It's telling and obviously done for a good reason. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Ah GS I see you snuck back on AR. I have shot the 525 at about 1600 and that was with a Bisley grip frame. The Bislley grip on a Ruger is indeed the best grip offerred today on a single action for converting to a large heavy kicking revolver. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Smart man! To promote ANY grip for all of our different hands is nothing but stupid. I will not do it. If you like a Bisley, fine, but don't push it on others. If you like super polished grips because rubber hurts you, fine, don't push your choice. If you have milk toast hands with skinny fingers, never push your choice of grips. If you have short grubby fingers and can't reach a trigger never push your choice. To class the Bisley as best is nothing but showing zero knowledge of each shooter. | |||
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Once again Jim, your reading comprehension just isn't shining through on your posts. If you go to the majority of top shelf pistolsmiths in this country and request a single action Big Bore revolver; especially in the maximum persuasion, it will be built on a Bisley grip frame. I nor Whitworth, nor jwp are making these rules; the ones making the conversions are. You have a beef about that, go to them. I understand you can't shoot a Bisley gripped revolver without hitting your knuckle. I have large hands and don't suffer the same problem you do. Nor do I have to have rubber grips to hang onto these revolvers as I do know how to shoot them properly. There things I do not like about our country, and one man's freedom is not the same as another's, but this is the best game in town still. So once again, NO, BISLEY GRIPS ARE NOT PREFERRED BY EVERYONE, BUT IF YOU WANT A CUSTOM CONVERSION BUILT BY A PISTOLSMITH; THAT IS THE ROAD MOST EVERYONE IS GOING DOWN. If you like to remove the hammer from your hand after the revolver stops its recoil, or place rubber grips over your plow handle, by all means do so. Just stop belaboring the point. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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Simple is always to find a gun to try FIRST. It is why so many grip makers are in business because one does not fit all. | |||
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Split the difference and go with a 5 shot 475 linebaugh (or 480), 5 1/2". The 475 will do everything that that a 5 shooter 45 will do, as well as what it won't and it'll cover what a 50 will do. I've had the good fortune to shoot most configurations of big bore single actions, and in my hands the best grip is a roundbutted FA mdl 83. The Bisley is a close second. Everyone's hands are different, so what works for one guy won't necessarily work for the next guy. I personally detest rubber grips in a single action as the gun should rotate in your hands under recoil. Rubber grips will tear your hands or gloves. On a double action, rubber all the way, on a single action mikarta or smooth wood. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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