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Maybe old news but The Marines have decided to move back to the 1911 format with some tricked out additions. 12,000 of an close quarter shooter have been ordered for the Corps. | ||
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The Marines never stopped using the 1911 and now they have ordered more ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012...-45-caliber-pistols/ Sticking to their guns: Marines place $22.5M order for the Colt .45 M1911 By Maegan Vazquez Published July 28, 2012 FoxNews.com The M1911 Colt .45 The Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols. It’s been called the greatest handgun ever made, and it has barely changed sine 1911, when the legendary John Browning designed it especially for the U.S. Military. And now, the Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols. The gun, which has been wielded on film by John Wayne and in real life by Sgt. Alvin York and Maj. Audie Murphy, was the standard-issue sidearm in the military for decades, until it was replaced by the Beretta M9 in 1985. "It just became an iconic part of military and American history." - Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense "It just became an iconic part of military and American history," Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense, told FoxNews.com. The gun, one of the most successful pistols ever used at Camp Perry's National Matches, a competition known to be the main world event in artillery sports, has barely changed since it's creation. Dinkel says that shows the gun's "elegant design" just can't be improved on. And firearms experts agree. "You can’t beat a .45 cartridge," Jack Lewis, firearms director for Cowan's Auctions, told FoxNews.com. "Some things are hard to replace," he said. Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets. "I'm really glad that they're keeping it in the American economy," Lewis, who used the gun while he was in the armed forces, said. "I was quite upset when they went to the Beretta," Lewis said. Some reports suggest Marines are not happy with their main Beretta M9s for their lack of accuracy and stopping power. With M1911's now supplying Special Ops, growing interest may lead to a better solution. "To have the 1911 selected again for U. S. Forces 101 years after its initial introduction is just an incredible testament to the timeless design and effectiveness of the Colt 1911," Dinkel said. "This is truly a gratifying contract award." _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And thats most likely why they didn't go with a better newer designed 45. Because they wouldn't have to go through the bidding and testing of a differant pistol. And all the head aches of that. | |||
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Better designed? I doubt that, the 191 has stood the test of time and comes out on top. LAPD SWAT, FBI, Speacial Forces all use the 1911 by preference _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Oh Geez, here we go again. Give me a Glock 17, or any striker fired gun(and I do have several 1911's). Peter Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Not me and aparently not the Marines, FBI Elite units, nor the LAPD SWAT nor many of the Special ops comunity _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Why "here we go again?"  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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In my personal experience, there is not a better semiauto for defense than a 1911 in 45 ACP. If you consider everything, size, weight ergonomics, shootability, ruggedability, life of the gun, reliability, carryability, I have not found anything that can beat it. I have owned and shot a lot of different semiauto's, and none compare to a 1911, to ME. IF I could not carry a 1911, and had a choice I would carry either a Glock or an H&K in 45 ACP. In a 9mm, my choice would be a Glock, H&K P7, or a Browning Hi Power. The last few years when I was on the Job, I had to carry a 9mm. My choice was between a Beretta, a SIG or a Glock. I chose the Glock. I personally do not see the need for a DA semi auto, for ME. I carried 2 Glock 17's when on duty 100% of the time. I have over 200,000 rounds through Glock 17's. I find them to be very reliable, very rugged, I only ever had one part break, the trigger return spring, durring a qualification, and the gun still worked, I did not know when it broke, it was discovered durring cleaning/inspection right after the qualification. I will say when you are used to shooting Custom Accurized 1911's, and you handle a Glock, you are very unimpressed. However after I shot the Glock, and the Beretta, and the SIG, the choice of the Glock was a no brainer for ME., I will say THE DAY I retired, as soon as I got home, I put up the Glock 17's and put on my 1911... I am wearing a 1911 as I type this. The ONLY handgun I would consider to replace a 1911 is a Star Trek Phaser. And mine would not be set on "stun"...  DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Those of you who want "a newer better designed .45..." are welcome to one, with my blessings and best wishes. Us old jarheads with a tiny bit of experience will stick with 1911's thank you very much. | |||
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Amen to that, brother! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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More info on the contract --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...ESRC=marine.nl Marines Pick Colt for New Pistol Jul 20, 2012 Military.com| by Matthew Cox Add a Comment . The Marine Corps has tapped Colt Defense LLC to make more than 10,000 new Close Quarter Battle Pistols for the service's elite special operations troops. The July 19 contract, which has a total value of $22.5 million, brings an end to the Corps' exhaustive search for the top .45 caliber, 1911-style pistol to replace the fleet of worn-out Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command, or MARSOC, M45 pistols. Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., was the original maker of John Browning's revered 1911 design – a potent handgun that served all branches of the U.S. Military for more than 70 years until it was replaced by the M9 9mm pistol in 1985. Marine officials, however, say they didn't play favorites. "It was performance based. . . . We picked the best-performing pistol," said Charles Clark III, who oversees infantry weapons requirements at the Corps' Combat Development and Integration office in Quantico, Va. "There were three candidates that made the final round of consideration," but Clark would not discuss the competitors. In addition to Colt, Springfield Armory's Full Size MC Operator and Smith & Wesson's 1911 design were also contenders, sources tell Military.com. Marine testers placed a high priority on accuracy. The winner had to be capable of putting five-shot groups on target that "didn't exceed four inches by four inches at 25 yards" from an unsupported firing position, Clark said. Reliability and magazine life were other important factors in the decision. The new Close Quarter Battle Pistols will be very similar to the M45s they are replacing this fall. They will have a rail for mounting lights, a custom trigger, a manual safety, improved ergonomics and glowing Tritium sights for low-light conditions. <SCRIPT language='JavaScript1.1' SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/N5853.4611.MILITARY.COM/B4378946.4;abr=!ie;sz=160x600;click0=http://oas.monster.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/us.military.en/daily-news/2012/07/20/marines-pick-colt-for-new-pistol.html/L25/1731902457/TopRight/Monster/1017474_OAS_Military_ROS_160x600_001_1109393751/Military_ROS_160x600_298681.html/53394c374b464157736a414144413834?;ord=1731902457?" > </SCRIPT> <NOSCRIPT> <A HREF="http://oas.monster.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/us.military.en/daily-news/2012/07/20/marines-pick-colt-for-new-pistol.html/L25/1731902457/TopRight/Monster/1017474_OAS_Military_ROS_160x600_001_1109393751/Military_ROS_160x600_298681.html/53394c374b464157736a414144413834?http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N5853.4611.MILITARY.COM/B4378946.4;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=160x600;ord=173190 2457?"> <IMG SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N5853.4611.MILITARY.COM/B4378946.4;abr=!ie4;abr=!ie5;sz=160x600;ord=173190 2457?" BORDER=0 WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=600 ALT="Advertisement"></A> </NOSCRIPT> The most visual difference is the Colt models will come in Coyote tan instead of gunmetal, Clark said. The Corps began issuing custom 1911 .45 pistols to its elite Force Reconnaissance units in the 1990s. Gunsmiths at the Quantico Weapons Training Battalion Precision Weapons Section hand built them from old 1911s that had been replaced by the M9 in the mid 1980s. The creation of the first MARSOC units in 2006 caused the requirement to grow from 400 pistols to 4,000 pistols. Finding enough surplus 1911s for the Precision Weapons Section's custom rebuilds became impractical. "We realized that hand building 4,000 guns was not sustainable," Clark said. Marine officials would not discuss the individual price for each new pistol. But the $22.5 million contract to Colt will allow the Corps to buy replacements for the new pistols as they wear out, Clark said. The contract also includes some money for spare parts. "The contract is built so we can re-buy the approved acquisitions objective three times, so we can buy 4,000 guns three times," Clark said. "These pistols will be getting used a lot; deployed a lot so the guns are going to get shot out." MARSOC operators stay on a rigorous deployment cycle, "so they fire a lot of rounds. It's a 15,000-round plus [training] work-up to a deployment," Clark said. "It's more efficient to replace the guns over time instead of attempting to completely rebuild them." _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I like 1911s and I put more rounds through them than anything else. But I would want a Glock for a combat sidearm. I sure wouldn't be putting down my rifle for a puny handgun, but if I had to carry something around 24x7 I would want the Glock. IMHO, the 1911 has evolved into the best shooting platform. But the Glock is a better design for durability in crappy conditions. Well, at least have an OK day  | |||
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I love the 1911 and I believe it is a great HG. But I do like double action HGs and frankly the Sig is very easy to field strip and reassemble, much more so than my 1911s. The real winner here is my beloved 45 ACP Snake | |||
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Apparently some posters still believe that such decisions are based on merit! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Hopefully the Marines will consult you before their next purchase so they can get what they need  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I would not mind being able to get one myself.... Good for Colt....about time American made products came first. One nice thing about a Glock, however, easier to get sick leave when it goes off as you try to pull it from your holster, finger slipping into the trigger guard. Laugh not, many cops have shot themselves that way.  "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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Funny thing about Glocks, they go off when you press the trigger with 5.5 lbs of pressure. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Very enjoyable post. Think most of what Herter used to call the "drugstore cowboys" got a good lesson. Lots of semi auto pistols work but a mil spec 1911, with the correct ammo ALWAYS works. Will not shoot tiny groups but will shoot "minute of raghead" at 7 yards. | |||
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They tried the "newer, better" design. It has been found lacking. I can't stand the Glocks. I like the way the Sig feels, strips, and shoots. I have a few different pistols, but the 1911 has proven itself for a hundred years. No other pistol can say it's been in service that long. There must be a reason.... BTW. Gov't contracts are not always because of price, quality, or need. Politics continue to make a mess of good progress. The Spec War dept gets a budget and can request what they want. You want to know what works, check the holster of a SEAL team member. | |||
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At $1800 per pistol, they better damn well shoot better than 4x4! A pretty color certainly isn't worth that. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Larry, is that what we, the taxpayers, are paying Colt Industries? They don't call him Uncle Sugar Tit for nothing ... There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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22.5 million / 10,000 guns equals $2,200 per. I can't access the link so maybe the contract includes spares & such. Still, even $1,800 per is a lot considering that 1911's on the whole have decreased in price considerably.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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The contract includes new pistols, spare parts and rebpairs/rebuilds as needed _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Well it's not exactly like Colt has to tool up for the 1911 is it? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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If it is your son or daughter in harms way just how much would you pay? I find that to be a reasonable price considering the way government contracts work. It does include spare parts, rebuilds/maintenance, new pistols if necessary etc. Maybe we should go back to the early days of our nation where each soldier/militia member showed up with their own weapons? Although there are some who would be better armed.  Last since when is it difficult to field strip a 45 colt? If I can teach an entire platoon of raw recruits to do it with reassembly in 10 minutes or less then anyone can do it. It took exactly one hour to get them from never touching one to field stripping and then putting it back together blindfolded. Same thing was true for the M14. Even those who arrived on the short bus mastered it.Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Great string of comments, but I think that a missed point of the original article was that it's not Glock vs 1911 (and yes I have both), but M9/Beretta92 vs 1911 (carried both in the Army as well). I do salute the Corps for staying with the 1911, but note that the new 1911 is for the Force Recon and the MARSOC, not the bulk of the USMC. Maybe it will spread...? The Complete Book of the Model 1911, The Cooper Edition. c.2012 p.70 "M45 CQBP", by Timothy Yan sputster | |||
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