How many of you have a revolvers chambered in .475 Linebaugh? This is a caliber that I have wanted for a very long time. I have an SRH in .454 Casull and one in .480 Ruger and was wondering if it would be worth having a revolver in .475 Linebaugh. The factory Hornady loadings are quite conservative, and not much more than the .480 offerings. Do you guys think it is a big enough step up over the .480 to warrant owning one? I would like to have an SRH built Bowen, but only if it will be a significant step up. I mainly use my handguns to hunt hogs. What kind of ballistics are possible with the .475? Thanks in advance.

Whitworth,
I'm not sure what kind of information you are looking at...but the Hornady .475 Linebaugh ammo I have will push a 400 grain bullet about 1440 fps... The 480 Can't do that with the 350 grain bullet.
The way I see it...and the main reason I bought a .475 Linebaugh (Freedom Arms model 83) is that it will do all the .454 will do but at a much lower operating pressure. This means it won't beat up the gun as much. It will still pack a wallop though.
For most of my hunting I actually download my .475 with a 350 grain WGN cast bullet to about 1,000 fps. Its a very effective load and doesn't beat you up as much as the 400 at 1400 fps will...trust me THAT is a stout load.
I know some people who can safely drive a 400 grain bullet to over 1500 fps with their Linebaughs. But I personally find such performance unneccesary and the recoil simply isn't manageable.
I'd love to have a Linebaugh revolver...unfortunately they are approaching $3k now and you are looking at about a 2 year wait. Freedom Arms is as good as it gets in many ways and you can have it now for less than $2k in a premier grade gun.

KY Nimrod -- thanks for the info. According to Hornady (website), the 400 grn XTP loading is moving at 1300 fps. Whether or not that's a conservative claim or not, I don't know. Have you chronographed them? I have some .480 loads from Buffalo Bore that supposedly push a 410 Grn bullet at 1200 fps. Now if the Hornady's will actually do over 1400 fps, that's another story all together. I attempted to verify Buffalo Bore's claims the last time at the range, but the wind was blowing so hard that I couldn't set up the chronograph. I'm just going by the manufacturers' claims, hence the 100 fps difference.

I called Bowen Arms a while back, and they told me they could build an SRH (based on a .44 Mag SRH) in .475 for about 1500.00, if I can recall. I would prefer a double action, so this is the direction I would take.

Consider the S&W 500. They can be purchased now for about $700 out the door. Best of both worlds. You can load it down or stoke it to get more power than any other revolver in the bigger bullet weights.

Snowwolfe, seems like a logical solution. But, I'm going to wait till hype dies down before I buy myself a .500 Smith. I'm quite fond on my Rugers and I find the more exotic rounds like the Linebaughs a bit more interesting. Don't get me wrong as there is no denying the .500 Smith, but I find the alternatives to be more attractive, hence my desire to build a .475 Linebaugh. Plus, I will have the option of using .480 rounds for plinking.

Getting a 475 Linebaugh in an FA 83 is probably the only option now. It seems that BFR's are getting scarce in that caliber for some reason. Mine was the Field Grade when I started looking for one when Brian Pierce wrote it up in the magazine some years ago. Since then, I've up-graded the rear sights and had a 480 cylinder added. This is a very big gun and find that it's all that I'm willing to carry in a handgun let alone a 500 S&W. Have you ever handled the S&W 500, way too damn heavy.
A 475 or 500 Linebaugh is all that is needed in a portable package.

I have a bfr in .475 and I love it and the caliber. Another option is Gary Reeder at www.reedercustomguns.com He builds great revolvers and has one for sale right now if you want it. It is on his in stock list on the website. I have two guns from him and plan to order two more over the next year. Atleast give him a call and talk to him about the African Hunter he has in .475. Hope this helpsm,

Shane

I agree, the Smith is a handful from a physical standpoint. I just find the Linebaughs to be more intereting calibers. If I'm not mistaken, the .475 (perhaps even the .500) is based on a cut-down 45/70 case. builder45, I will take a look at his web-site. How crazy can one load the .475? I mean what do max loads look like balistically? Sorry for so many questions! Thankd for the info, guys.

The 475 was originally based on the 45/70, but with Freedom Arms making a revolver chambered for the 475, the rim was made a few thou smaller. The 500 was based on the 348. So far nothing has surpassed the revolvers that are chambered for both in a PORTABLE package. The 475 can go around 1350 f/s with a 400 +/- grain cast LBT and the 500 will go around 1300 f/s with a 450- 500 grain LBT or similar cast bullet. Due to the smaller diameter of the 475, it penetrates better than the 500. For pure brute force, the 500 probably wins out. If you want more power than that, then the only to go is to go for the longer 475 and 500 Linebaugh's in the maximum packages. I don't think you'd want to as recoil is way brutal.

I had a FA 83 475 and just traded it so I could get a 475 Maximum on order from Gary Reeder.
The 475 Linebaugh will go w/425gr WFNGC at 1380 fps,a 375gr WFNGC will do 1530 fps these are MAX loads in my 475 w/7-1/2" bll,if you would like some load data,email me I will send it to you when I get to the house tonight.
I cant wait till the 475 Maximum comes in about 5 months to go.


Sean

Thanks again, guys. The maximum cartridges sound brutal. What kind of ballistics can one achieve with them? Sean, I'll send you an e-mail as I'd love to see your loading data.

I e-mailed Gary Reeder to see if he can perform a conversion of my .480 SRH. Don't know it they perform conversions on double-action revolvers. Will keep you posted.

Sean -- I sent you a PM.

Gary Reeder won't do a conversion on the SRH. In fact he won't do conversions on any DA revolvers at all. The very thin chamber walls on the 480 would blow if you could find anyone to rechamber it to 475 as the pressure would be damn near double. Reeder believes implicitly in 5-shot cylinders and finds that to build one in a DA SRH would be cost prohibitive.

475Guy -- but the cylinder would have to be replaced anyway. So how would it be cost prohibitive -- even the barrel can be reused. When Bowen Arms does a conversion, they replace the factory cylinder with a five-shot cylinder. Unfortunately they won't do a conversion on the .480 SRH, only on an SRH in .44 Mag. There's aparently some problem with removing the barrel. Instead of buying another revolver to replace this one, I'd love to be able to convert it.

What kind of pressures are we talking about here?

You don't have to convert your 480, just seat cast bullets to the first lube groove, and you get the same case capacity as a 475. The other option is getting a custom bullet mold. I have a 400 gr LFN gc that is .51" from the canalure to the meplat, which gives me the same COL as a .475. My buddy was pushing 400 gr cast 1350 from his 7 1/2" SRH.

I know there is at least one guy that reamed his 480 out to take .475 cartridges. While he apparently didn't damage the gun (475's run slightly higher pressure than the 480) he did say recoil in the SRH was brutal.

My personal thought is, if 400 gr @ 1200 fps isn't enough, I'll take a rifle. I've shot several 475's, and the added recoil over the 480 makes mastering them very difficult. I also don't see an extra 100-200 fps making them into dramatically more effective killers. With 400 gr @ 1200 fps, or 460 @ 1050, I expect to get consistant exits on any game I hunt, and trajectory is flat enough for huting with an iron sighted sixgun.

I'm not going to hunt elephants with a revolver, and I've shot enough 475's to know I can't handle the recoil. A 475 definately needs to be built on a single action, as the double action delivers too much impact to the web of your hand.

Thanks for the reply, Paul. I find my SRH is Casull to be much more brutal in the recoil department than my .480 even when loaded with Buffalo Bore's 410 grn 1200 fps loadings. I've to say also that with the additional velocity of the .454, it shoots a lot flatter than the .480. Granted, I won't shoot game much beyond 50 yards with my open sights, so perhaps the trajectoy issue is moot. I got a reply back from Gary Reeder and he says that too many guys have blown up their SRHs that have been converted to .475. Don't know how when I thought that a different 5-shot cylinder would replace the stock offering, but that's what the man said.

At 1350 fps with a 400 grain bullet, is your friend seeing any visible signs of excessive pressure? Just curious to see how far one can go with the thin cylinder walls of the SRH before you get into the danger zone.

I agree with you that there is a practical limit to handgun hunting and for the truly big stuff I have a .416 Rem and a .458 Lott, but I am simply intrigued with the .475. I have yet to hunt with the 410 grn loadings from Buffalo Bore, but they are accurate and I need to give them a whirl. Thanks again for the info, Paul.

My buddy sold his 480, so no comment on how long the gun would hold up with those loads. That was with the bullet seated out long in the cylinder.

The key to the 480 IMHO is that it offers big bore performance, ie 400 grs @ 1200 fps (30% more power than a 44 mag), but it is still shootable. I find 475 linebaughs to have subjectively twice the recoil of a 480, but all that recoil only adds 200 fps. One of the guys that used to post here loaded up some of my 460 gr WFN's to 1100 fps in his 480, and took it to John Linebaughs summer get together. In penetration tests, that load penetrated to 90% of the best 475 and 500 linebaugh loads.

On my SRH 480, factory hornady ammo is slightly sticky on extraction, so I've used sticky extraction as my pressure indicator as to whether to stick with a load or not. All the loads I've settled on drop right out of the cylinder, so are lower pressure than factory loads.

The 480 is super easy to load for, get a box of CCI mag pistol primers, either H-110 or Lil gun, and some 400 gr cast bullets. Load 21 gr of either Lil gun or H-110, and you'll get ~1200 fps from 390-410 gr bullets. That load has worked equally well with a 390 gr LFN LBT, 400 gr Lee, and a 400 gr LFN gc with the long nose, as well as a 410 gr from an NEI mold. You can get into reloading for way less than the cost of converting your 480, and you can load it to any level you want. My favorite target load is a 310 gr LFN over 9.7 gr unique for 950 fps, and accuracy that exceeds my shooting ability. I shout 3 into a 1 1/2" group at 100 yds with that load.

I have a 458 Lott and a 500 Jeffrey, they'll cover anything the 480 won't do. I just don't see the 475 Linebaugh being that much more gun than the 480, and certainly nowhere near a big bore rifle.

Thanks again, Paul. Unfortunately at this point I cannot do any reloading. In fact I haven't done any reloading in more than a dozen years, so for the moment I'm stuck factory loads. Both Buffalo Bore and Grizzly load for the .480 with 350 to 425 grain offerings in the 1200 fps range. I found BUffalo Bore's 410 grain loads to shoot at the same POI as the Speer 325 grain Gold Dot ammo. Again, haven't hunted with it yet.

What are your thoughts on the Casull, and how do you think the .480 stacks up to it?

I think the casull is a great round if one wants to hunt with a scoped revolver, and have flat enough trajectory for 200 yd shots. The recoil is snappy, but there is no doubt about what the round is capable of.

I personally prefer iron sighted revolvers, and keeping my shots within say 75 yds. For that use, I think the 480 is a getter round, big heavy bullets at reasonable velocity, and no snappy recoil. I'm a huge fan of the 480, so perhaps I can't provide an objective opinion. I think when everything is weighed out, the 480 is one of the finest big game revolver rounds out there.

You're right. For me handgun hunting is an up-close and personal experience. I have never scoped a handgun and don't intend to (not that there is anything wrong with scoping a handgun, it's just not for me). I obviously need to experiment with the round a bit more. I've only shot two hogs with it and that was with factory Speer 325 grn rounds and it killed admirably. Thanks again for answering my questions, it's appreciated.

Whitworth,

I use the 325 gold dot in my .475 linebaugh simply because it is all I need for black bear or hogs or any lesser threat. Plus it is an accurate bullet in my revolver. For the nasty stuff I have one of garys 510 Hunters in 510 GNR it pushes a 435 gr LBT bullet at 1300+ fps. Although I have not ran my 325gr load over the chronograph I sure it has better performance than the 480. Now I am interested to know what the difference will be.

builder45 -- I have also found the 325 Gold Dot loadings to shoot well in my SRH -- better than Hornady's offerings from an accuracy standpoint-- in my revolver. I hit a 250-lb hog behind the shoulder, it took the lungs out and broke the offside shoulder on the way out, so no bullet was recovered, but I was pleased with the results. Can't wait to try the Buffalo Bore 410 grn loads that I have. What is the 510 GNR case based off of?

builder45 You stated elsewhere that you got 1265 fps with the 510 long with a 435 from an 8 Inch barrel.
LJ Kovach stated he got 1220 with the 435 in his 6 inch.
What is the real velocities of the 510GNR with the 435"s?
Other than just wanting a different cartridge what is the purpose of the 510 GNR as people have been loading down the 500 Linebaugh for years with excellent results?
That is people who use the appropriate powders to build reduced loads and not the slower powders.

Me_plat,
After posting that I couldnot get the point of impact up on my gun. I called Gary and he said that he was using a different load so I switched to that and squeezed about 50 fps more out of the gun. Personally I do not like the 435 long and feel that this cartridge is better loaded down with th 350 bullets. Grtanted I probably had an increase in pressure and I know I had an increase in recoil over the first load but that is just reloading data and we all know that unless conditions are the same every time we will not get the same data. I am not a business devoted to load data like Larry Kovach plus Larrys load data is a little on the conservative side for legal reasons.

The purpose of the 510 is a custom revolver. I do not know of any reason to have a revolver in that caliber or 475 or 480 or 500 linebaugh or 500 s&w except because you can. Much like printing speedometers with 120 mph when the maximum speed limit rarely exceeds 75mph.

Whitworth,

The 510 is based off of the .348 winchester case.

quote:

posted 08 March 2005 17:01
builder45 You stated elsewhere that you got 1265 fps with the 510 long with a 435 from an 8 Inch barrel.

I'm going to have to change my name and buy a new gun to keep from being followed.

quote:

I'm going to have to change my name and buy a new gun to keep from being followed.

builder45 You don't have to be worried about being followed I was just curious about the 510 Long and short. Anytime that you ask a guy who designed a cartridge what it will do it is like a parent talking about their kid. They can do no wrong even though they may be out raising all manner of cain.
So don't get your Fruit of the Loom's in a wad ok.

Its Hanes for me.

I have the BFR .475 and shoot a lot of .480 brass as well as Linebaugh brass. I use 8.5 grs. of Unique in the .480 brass for fun loads as well as heavy loads. My most accurate load in the Linebaugh brass is the 400 gr. Lee boolit and 26.5 grs. of 296. I use fed 155 primers. Working for accuracy with each case, I find the .480 will do everything the Linebaugh will as far as hunting. I did get accuracy easier with the Linebaugh brass. I don't think a deer will notice any difference but I do like the Linebaugh loads better. I have groups of 1" and less at 50 yd's and some just over 1" at 100 yd's. I have no problem hitting pop cans at 100 yd's from a rest.
The velocity of the 26.5 gr. load in .475 is 1274 fps. The light Unique load in .480 brass is 889 fps. and another great load with .475 brass is 15 grs. of HS-6 at 1111 fps. All are very accurate.
I keep reading here about how fast will it go. This is not the question that should be asked. Any good load is more then needed and the question should be about accuracy. I do not like a super fast load that will not hit the animal or target. If the Linebaugh will shoot as accuratly as the .480, but faster, is the answer you want. And I can say that it will.
We have been experimenting with the Freedom versus the BFR and find the BFR has a 1 in 15 twist and the Freedom has a 1 in 18 twist. The BFR will shoot a heavier boolit from 400 grs. up and the Freedom likes lighter boolits of about 325 grs. Both are as accurate as a revolver can be made but require different feeding to perform.
Yes, a lot more velocity can be reached, but accuracy will fall off as it will in the .357, .41, .44 or .45. Why everyone wants to shoot a boolit so fast it sprays the backstop is not understood by me. Is it a macho thing? An accurate load in these calibers will kill anything on earth.
If you think they don't kick enough to impress the neighbors, my friend came out and at his first shot, split his head open with the scope ring and gave himself a great shiner where the scope hit his eye. He doesn't like my guns!
Please guys, don't keep pushing these weird velocity figures. It is not what is needed. Accuracy is top gun and pushing a larger, heavier boolit, faster, with great accuracy should be the criteria. Load down a little, the animal will not get up and complain.
The .475 is a great caliber but so is the .480. I would not complain with either one. I would love to have the .500 as it is a great caliber also but then again I could never fault the .44 either. Hit any animal in the boiler room with any of them and they are dead--dead--dead. Never had one jump up and say my boolit was too slow--ha-ha-ha, get a faster gun.

Couple issues here that are affected by velocity. The first being trajectory. There is a noticable difference between the trajectory of my .480 and my .454 Casull -- a function of velocity.

Two, muzzle energy concerns me -- which is largely a function of bullet weight and velocity. A classic example of this is the .38 Special versus the .357 Magnum. With identical bullet construction and weight, the .357 will handily out-penetrate the .38 spl on game as well as hit it with more authority, because it generates more energy because it has more velocity.

Not trying to be contrary, but velocity up to a point is important. Since pistol rounds are challenged from a velocity standpoint compared to rifles, I think it critical. Big bore pistols already have diameter, so and expanding-type bullet may not be necessary, but penetration is critical, and if you have good bullet construction, velocity will help drive the bullet deeper. So I do think that this is a critical issue. Think about it, a .500 Smith can generate a whopping 2500 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. If that same bullet was pushed another 500 fps faster, what will happen? Muzzle energy will climb noticeably, all because of velocity.

Really all one needs in a pistol is heavy bullet of good construction that can get to the vitals, the only issue is having enough velocity to get it there. What is enough velocity? I don't rightfully know what exactly is enough.

Personally I think any load from the 480 Ruger or 475 linebaugh is plenty for deer hogs black bear elk, etc. but when it comes to Cape Buffalo, Brown Bear and possibly elephant I would like the 375 or 410 gr Cast Performance bullet at atleast 1400fps if not 1450. I hope on my next trip to Africa I will be able to try my 510 on Buffalo so I will know first hand what works.

builder45 -- my point being that there is a place for velocity. I did a lot of hog hunting in Florida. While it is never fun chasing a wounded boar anywhere in the world, palmetto groves and swamp offers even less incentive not to drop a hog in its tracks. I always prefer ËoverkillË to barely adequate -- besides, there are no such things as degrees of dead. I agree that deer aren't particularly hard to kill, but sometimes boar is. It's all about bullet placement and penetration. When are you heading to Africa?

I will be leaving march 30 for RSA. I will only be there for plains game. I wanted to get a feel of the hunting in Africa before I hunted something that might get back up and and chase me instead of the other way around.

I hear you. Will you be using handguns exclusively? I was going to try to do a Cape Buffalo hunt in Tanzania this year, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to swing it. But, I will be shooting my .416 or my Lott.

I will be using handguns but I am taking a rifle just in case I am having one of the off days of which I often have.

Whitworth, try calling Jack Hunting @530-268-6877 I am sure that he can convert your SRH My firts 475 I ordered from Bowen in 1986 and it was the first 475 that Hamilton built very nice gun some years latter that revolver was stollen and I had Jack build me another one and loved his work not to mention his prices are more reasonable and you give up nothing in quality. The current 475 factory loaded case dimensions are Jack,s as he was converting Freedom guns to this caliger long before freedom started to offer factory chamberings the case is also shorter than the original Buffalo Bore factory loaded 420grain all cronograph 1400to 1420fps in my 3 475's also 480 Rugar can be safely fired in a 475 Jack also has been in contact with Freedom arms about chambering his 500JRH in the freedom factory revolvers and Jack has factory loads available in this caliber

jwp475 -- I will contact him this week and see if he's interested in tackling an SRH project. Will keep you posted as to my progress on this front.

Witworth, I am not talking about light loads, but accurate heavy loads. The light loads are for plinking. If 1 or 1/2 gr less powder shoots tighter groups, you will not be able to say the animal knows it. The penetration with the accurate load is not any less then a full house load and no animal on earth will stop it. Trajectory is a function of caliber, ballistic coefficient, velocity, etc. You can't compare a large bore with a smaller bore. Are you shooting 500 yds with your revolvers? Are you really worried about an inch or two at 100 yds? Can you really explain what 50 or 100 fps will gain you if you can't place the shot exactly? Some loads I have worked up that shoot less then 1 inch at 50 yds. will start to open to 3 inches or more with 1 grain more powder. This will be better then 6 inches at 100 yd's. But, I forgot, you are interested in an inch less trajectory at 100 even though you are shooting 7 or 8 inch groups. Makes no sense to me at all. If only I could put pictures on this site, I could show you pictures of groups at 100 yd's that most can't get at 25.
And, yes, I have shot at 500 yd's with groups that would turn you green with envy. I also put 12 out of 12 shots in the center of a 5 gallon bucket at 400 meters with a .44 SRH. I have a coke can with holes in it from the same gun at 200 meters.
I am sorry, but I don't buy the trajectory bull or the penetration bull. I would rather hit what I shoot at. I have killed too many animals to think a little more speed is needed. When you get to the 360 big game animals I have taken, you can tell me what kills best.

Settle down bfr. Don't rightfully know what it is that I said that you took offense to, or that triggered you listing your marksmanship qualifications. But, I'm not talking about plinking loads or 100 fps velocity differences. I'm talking 1000 fps versus 1500 fps. I'm a firm believer in marksmanship myself, hence my obsession with this topic. Isn't it boring when everyone agrees? Am I worried about an inch or two? No, but I like the fact that my Casull shoots a hell-of-a-lot flatter than my .480, and there's not a whole bunch of difference with regards to the diameter or the weight of the bullets that I am shooting through the both of them, but there's a good deal of difference in their velocity. I'm not into sniping at game and every animal I have taken with a handgun has been with open sights at moderate distances. I have a .338 for long distances when the need arises.

Now what about energy? Where does that come into play when hunting large angry animals? There's a reason why there are minimum calibers in every African country when hunting DG. Obviously pentration plays a huge role (after bullet placement of course), but where do you feel that muzzle energy (or wherever you want to measure it from) comes into play? I know I'm steering this a bit towards rifles, the concept is basically the same. I don't think that we would be seeing the development of bigger and nastier calibers over the last couple of decades, if the ability to push a big, heavy bullet with more velocity was meaningless.

Not trying to get your goat, here, but I believe that I have raised some valid issues which don't call for being brushed off.

whitworth I hope that I can explain a little about the power of these big bore revolvers.
1- they donot need speed inorder to take big game all out of perportion the to thier energy figures
2-there would be little diference in game taking ability between a 475 Linebaugh and a 480 Rugar loaded with 400 grain LBT style hardcast @ 1200+ fps or a 420 grain @ 1400+ fps out of a 475 linbaugh
3- in My opion for large game [Moose, Big Bears,Bison ,etc] the light weigh high speed bullets are lacking
4- on large game a 500 Linebaugh is no where near as impresive with 435 grain bullets @1350fps as it is with 525 grain @ 1130 fps
4-A rifle can use speed and bullet deformation inorder to creat a suficent wound channel the big bore revolve use's largre flat points of heavy weight and from my experience out penetrate 338's on Moose[250 grain partions]
Try 400 grain hard cast out of your 480 and compare its long range abilty again to the 454 and you may be surprised at the results
GOOD SHOOTING

Well, I gotta say, I'm well beyond the 360 mark, and an avid Linebaugh shooter, as well as a Casull shooter. I will say this for the 480 Rugrat, it's a great plinking round. It is decent for medium game, and marginal at best at 100m, no matter what the load.

The 480R is to the 475L what the 45LC is to the 454C. Simple matter of physics, gents. The slower and heavier 475 will run circles around nearly everything else where it counts, impact energy. Using the rifle analogy, it's like a 458Lott compared to a 458WM. Of course the Lott will work better, hit harder, penetrate deeper. That's the point. The 475L and the 480R are about the same difference as the Lott/WM comparison, which would you take up against buff? Both would work, but give me the smaller margin for error every time.