Random thoughts...

I hunt alone on several different trips every year.

Ok, not a good idea, but because of circumstances I do.

One of my hunts, usually done twice a year is a bear hunt in Idaho. While I always carry a rifle, or a Drilling, and a 44 Mag Mountain Gun, I have also considered carrying a 2" S&W with me as well. I started carying one for "work" in 1976, in my left front pocket, and have continued the practice to this day...

For some of those years I carried a LW Commander or a Glock 17, so a 2" S&W is no strain.

On one of these hunts I might be as far as 50 miles from the cabin, on an ATV, or snowmobile, that might go dead.
Thus, I might have to "walk home".

I do carry some food and water, but I have thought about carrying a 2" Mod 34 in 22LR and 50 rounds or so of 22LR. Useful for small game or signaling...

However, I have also thought that a 38 Special with a few shotshells, as well as some wadcutters would be good for small game as well...

So what do y'all think the 2" 22 LR, or the 2" 38???

I think this next deer season I will do a small game test with both of them and see how they compare...

BUT until then, what do you all think???

You sound like you're already armed for food gathering in a survival situation. If you hunt alone in remote areas then I suggest you get a PLB (personal locator beacon). If you end up in a bad spot out there it will immediately become your best friend.

Regarding shot cartridges for revolvers:
The .22 shoots 31gr of #12 shot (dust). Forget about it for anything other than snakes or mice at 5-10 feet.
The .38 shoots 109gr of #9 shot reasonably well for small critters to about 15 feet
The .44 shoots 140gr of #9 to about the same effective range as the 38.
All of these are limited because of the fast opening patterns from revolvers.
All three have a claimed muzzle velocity of 1000fps

Shot shels for the 44 make more sense than for a 2" 38. Shotshells in the 44 are much more effective than in the 2" 38


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot30.htm

Years ago, I played with 185 and 200 grain cast bullets at low velocities in the 44 mag for small game, and came up with some very accurate loads. Took a couple of squirrels and rabbits and they did a good job. I make shotshells for the 44 mag out of shortened and turned 444 Marlin brass and sized them to fit the full lenght of a Redhawk cylinder (made some homemade dies). These shotshells will carry about an ounce of shot....good enough for any small game animal, rodent or snake within the distance of a good pattern. I dont see why the 44 mag (or other large caliber handguns) could not be used for anything from dangerous game back up to small game/survival use....one handgun...many functions.

We haven't yet answered the man's question...

I would opt for wadcutters out of the 38. With any of the textbook loads they shoot like a .22, are quite accurate, and will give you a bit more distance. Seems to me they would be perfect for grouse, etc.

I see no benefit at all to carrying shotshells. Even if you got close enough to shoot small game with a 38 shotshell, the wadcutter would accomplish the same thing.

I agree with Doubless. I think if you find an accurate 2" 38, that would be the way to go. Mine is very accurate out to 15 yards.

You've already got a rifle and a .44 so you're not going to need much more. Both of those are obviously better for signalling. I wouldn't carry something extra just for that.

Small game means rabbits and squirrels in my part of the country. .22s are a lot more practical for squirrels than a .38 for a number of reasons. So I'd skip the .38.

Rabbits are harder to say. Frankly I find cottontails hard to hit with a handgun of any kind, but I know it's different if you work at it and get enough practice.

I used to have a Model 34 in a four inch and I found that I do much better on squirrels with a longer barrel. I'd hate to have to live only on squirrels shot by a 6 shot 2" revolver. Most shots I see are anywhere from 15-30 yds and they are usually high up and active only at brief times very early and late. And they are a very small target with highly unpredictable movements. I've frequently gone thru mag after mag 10 rounds each before hitting one. For that reason, if squirrels are on the menu and I'm using a .22, I want an autoloader with longer than a 2" barrel. The S&W Model 41 is my usual gun for that. The Colt Woodsman's good too, as is the Hi-Standard military issue, and the Browning Challenger II. In a revolver I like the 9 shot top break H&R for squirrels and the new USFA 12 shot SAA.

So, here's what I'd do. First, I'd check the gun carrying laws before anything else. That includes both kinds of laws...the game laws and also the laws against carrying concealed weapons with intent to go armed (unless you have a permit).

For the second step, I'd decide which is more important, self-protection or small game, which I presume is mainly squirrels. If the latter is what matters most, I'd carry along a .22 autoloader with lots of spare mags already loaded. If the former is what's mainly the issue, I'd carry a 9 mil or .45 acp also with extra mags, assuming the authorities have no problem with that. The option of being able to put a lot of lead in the air quickly would come in more handy than either the rifle or the 44 should it come down to what stands between you and thieves/poachers or trespassers or aggressive packs of wild dogs or coyotes (I've been forced to shoot at them to keep them at distance when out woods walking at dusk by myself).

I think I'd put my personal well-being first and go at it like that. I hope all this helps.

I've been thinking about a .22 Mag for about the same set of circumstances. 8 shots in a JFrame sized revolver. Noticeable uplift in speed/power from the regular .22 LR but you can still carry 200+ rounds in a sandwich baggie.

Gents, thanks for the replies.

I havd killed a lot of game with 44 Shotshells.

The reason for the 22LR or the 38 is in case the 44 Mag Breaks....

I live by the old rule, One is None, two is one and three is what it might take to get the job one.

I have also thought about getting a 44 Mag Night Guard. They are very light, but much bigger than a J frame.

to me a .38 is a defensive weapon... and a .22 is targets, small game...i'd look for a composite framed, 4" .22... and 100 rds of .22 can be stashed in several packs, buttstock of your rifle, for instance...

If you're carrying a rifle or a drilling AND a .44 mag, I think carrying any other weapon for survival purposes is guilding the lily. The drilling solves all the small game problems if you carry 3 or 4 shotshells. Your best plan is to leave a detailed itinerary with a trusted individual with a specific return time. If you're not back within 12-18 hours of that time, it is time for him to call in a missing person. Assuming 12 hours is one night then you can easily survive one or two nights with NO food if you're halfway prepared for the conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
to me a .38 is a defensive weapon... and a .22 is targets, small game...i'd look for a composite framed, 4" .22... and 100 rds of .22 can be stashed in several packs, buttstock of your rifle, for instance...

When used against cottontail rabbits and squirrels a .22 HP has far better killing power than a .38 WC. !00 rds. of .22 would be lighter than 50 rds. of .38's. The .22 gets my vote.

If you really are using a drilling (16 ga. I guess), I agree that a second handgun would just be extra weight to lug.

At any rate, how well does a .44 with shotshells work for squirrels anyway? It's not something I've ever done. 22s and shotguns have been it for me on that.

I have trouble visualizing what the pattern and shot string with #6 at 25 yds would be like on a squirrel high up in a tree and quickly moving.

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Originally posted by swampshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
to me a .38 is a defensive weapon... and a .22 is targets, small game...i'd look for a composite framed, 4" .22... and 100 rds of .22 can be stashed in several packs, buttstock of your rifle, for instance...

When used against cottontail rabbits and squirrels a .22 HP has far better killing power than a .38 WC. !00 rds. of .22 would be lighter than 50 rds. of .38's. The .22 gets my vote.

Personally, I don't believe you've ever used a .38 WC on small game. At normal small game ranges, under 5O yards, it is a sledge hammer compared to the .22's tack hammer. I've shot hundreds of squirrels with both .38 WCs and .22s out of pistols, mostly with a Hi-Standard or Smith 41 (.22) and Colt Python (38 WC) and there is absolutely no comparison between the two, the .38 is far superior.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:
to me a .38 is a defensive weapon... and a .22 is targets, small game...i'd look for a composite framed, 4" .22... and 100 rds of .22 can be stashed in several packs, buttstock of your rifle, for instance...

When used against cottontail rabbits and squirrels a .22 HP has far better killing power than a .38 WC. !00 rds. of .22 would be lighter than 50 rds. of .38's. The .22 gets my vote.

Personally, I don't believe you've ever used a .38 WC on small game. At normal small game ranges, under 5O yards, it is a sledge hammer compared to the .22's tack hammer. I've shot hundreds of squirrels with both .38 WCs and .22s out of pistols, mostly with a Hi-Standard or Smith 41 (.22) and Colt Python (38 WC) and there is absolutely no comparison between the two, the .38 is far superior.

I have to agree with Gato on this. .38 makes a much bigger hole!

Gatagordo, I've shot hundred's with both .38's .45's and .22's I know you won't believe it but they run farther when shot behind the front leg with a .45 than they do with a .22 LRHP. In the 2 or 3" of a rabbit or squirrel a .22 HP will make a much more severe wound than a .45. I don't think that you've done much small game hunting period. Numerous times I've had the entire front half of a rabbit or squirrel shot up so bad that I had to throw it away when shot with a .22 LRHP. A .38 WC or a .45 just makes a neat little hole.I grew up where it took about 1 or 2 hrs. to shoot 5 rabbits on the family farm. I've shot them with most reasonable calibers. I hunted tree squirrels in Mo. and Il. extensively for 40 years. Normally killed between 70 and a hundred a year. That's no record by any means, but I've killed enough to know what I'm talking about. The last place I lived I'd shoot my limit of squirrels off the back deck while having coffee in the morning. You guys aren't the only ones who have done a little bit of hunting.

i personaaly prefer the 22 and is what i carry small game hunting

"they run further when shot behind the front leg with a .45 than they do with a 22 LRHP"
What ????????
I must be missing something...............

A .22 LRHP will turn the entire chest cavity of a rabbit or squirrel into bloody pulp. If your's don't do it change bullets. The only way to get a faster kill is to disrupt the central nervous system. When hunting small game with a .22 care must be used in choosing the right bullet to avoid excessive meat destruction. For small game you don't need more killing power than that and you can stick a box of 50 rounds in your pocket and not even know they're there. You can't do that with .38's.

A frigging rabbit will fall over if you hit him with a soft rock and your's are running off with a .45 hole through the chest. Yeah, I know who's been hunting around here or not.

BTW I shoot headshots almost exclusively on squirrels. Miss a bit with a .22 and you've got a wounded, possibly lost squirrel. Put a .38 WC in the same spot and he falls over dead.

quote:

A frigging rabbit will fall over if you hit him with a soft rock and your's are running off with a .45 hole through the chest. Yeah, I know who's been hunting around here or not.

Now THAT is funny!

I see no reason for more then two guns extra food or Personal locator seems a bit more reasonable to me.

At work I have 4 guns available a 40,9mm,870 and a AR but then I don't have to carry them all at once.

One hand gun one rifle. out in the woods for me even for some one like me who really like playing with guns.

Doubles, for sure you've never shot many with a .45 or you wouldn't laugh. I carried a .45 acp loaded with WW hardball at work for many years and shot many rabbits with it. I didn't say they ran off, you said that. I said that they would run farther when shot with a .45 than with a .22LRHP. I didn't believe it either the first time it happened. Hit behind the shoulder with a .22 LRHP a rabbit will normally die right there. Hit in the same place with a .45acp hard ball they will normally run from 5 to 20 yards. these are large northern cottontails of 2 1/2 or 3 pounds, not these little 1 pound Texas midgets. P.S. Where do you guys find these "soft" rocks that you're referring to? I've never seen a soft rock.

Soft rocks ???
Sand stone ??

quote:

BTW I shoot headshots almost exclusively on squirrels.

Well, my hat's certainly off to anyone who concentrates on headshots with squirrels. But I'll take a pass on that; it'd ruin the best part of the meat.

Mine don't run off when shot the usual way with a .22 handgun. What they do instead is drop a considerable distance hard enough to bounce a bit when they hit the forest floor.

Anyway, where I am, centerfire handguns aren't even legal for small game.

I just got back from squirrel hunting. That's what I do this time of year at the farm when there're no birds working the dove field.

Headshots with a handgun? Soft rocks?

Since you're in Texas, care to put some serious money where your BS flag mouth is? The "soft rocks" was humor, I understand why you didn't understand.

Why did I even mention a 2" 38 Special???

Well many years ago, in the mid 1970's a freind had a horse...

So we had to feed it every day.

While there we would shoot a couple of rabbits for the "barn cats".

We started out with full sized guns, me a 44 mag and a 45 ACP my buddy a 357 and a 9mm...

As time wore on we kept getting smaller and smaller guns.

For quite a while we used 2" 38 S&W's with wadcutter ammo. [I used a S&W Mod 52 with wadcutters as well, but it was so accurate it was cheating...]

The 38 wadcutters killed like the Hammer of Thor.

We did load some Hollow Base Wadcutters backwards over "large copious amounts" of powder, but they did WAY too much damage.

If I told you how much powder we used, you would have a Heart Attack.

Regular wadcutter loads over 2.8gr of Bullseye were accurate, easy to shoot, in the 2" guns esecially, and knocked the bunnies over in their tracks...

The "barn cats" were pretty smart, they would follow us while we hunted, and would "run foward" after we shot to claim their prize.

I've had good luck shooting rabbits and squirrels with .38 wadcutters, although occasionally they would run a little ways if not hit just right. Squirrels are a lot tougher than rabbits. My point was why carry all that extra weight when a .22 will do an excellent job, just as good as the .38 and is much more convenient. In a survival situation it is quite feasible to carry 100 rds. of .22's. and not even notice them. Gato said the .22 was inadequate and a .38 was necessary, not really true, as dead is dead.

Must close for now as I'm leaving town for a few days.

quote:

NE 450 No 2 - "One of my hunts, usually done twice a year is a bear hunt in Idaho. While I always carry a rifle, or a Drilling, and a 44 Mag Mountain Gun, I have also considered carrying a 2" S&W with me as well. "

NE 450, you did not say what part of Idaho you'll be hunting bears, but as I've hunted all over Idaho other than in the northern panhandle, I can only suggest what I'd do in your case.

If I were already carrying a centerfire rifle and a .44 Mag. revolver, and wanted that extra handgun, I'd take the .22 pistol. For all practical purposes, the .44 Mag. will handle anything the .38 Spec. will handle, so I'd be close to duplicating handguns for whatever needs if I also carried the .38 Spec.

I've killed quite a few Blue (forest) Grouse and cottontail rabbits here in Idaho with .22s, so if I thought I might pot a grouse or rabbit for the pot, that's what I'd carry for that chore.

Just my take on it based on my bustin' around out here in the Idaho boonies for a fair number of years. (I don't carry two handguns and a centerfire rifle, but if that's your choice, fine and dandy. Here in Idaho, fortunately, no one cares what you carry. ) )

Good luck on your bear hunt. There are plenty of them here.

L.W.

NE after being in the same game you where I settled on a 3" heavy barrel J frame 38spl, wadcutters,loaded backwards work great on jack rabbits, full base work great on deer close up and two leggers to boot. SHot cups hand loaded with 9's or 12's have worked well on short neckers here in the swamp

But I have been eyeong a 22 mag, have been inpressed with the little round for awhile now

I agree with Leonwolff, if your in the backcountry, the rifle and .44 should cover the majority of the siuations a .22 revolver and ammo would be lighter to carry for survival scrounging for food.

Reminds me the first time I went bird hunting with my supervisor in ND,..I brought a remington 1100 and a box of shells.

He had in his truck.
a 12 gauge, a 20 gauge, a 410 contendor a .223, a 22.250 for long range varmints, a 300wm senderno, a .22 pistol and a kimber .45 on the hip,......needless to say I felt a little undergunned!