My brother and I met at 3:00 this afternoon to go another round with the wild hogs of the North GA Mountains. As we were driving up the mountain to the "secret spot" we noticed that there was lots of hog sign on either side of the truck. Undeterred by this distraction, we kept driving. No need to stop and hunt right next to the road! No, we needed to get about 3-4 miles off of the road. We drove the truck as far as we could and loaded up our gear. I was hunting with my 209 X 50 pistol stoked with 45 caliber, 260 grain Speer Gold Dots in a Hornady sabot propelled by 80 grains of Triple 7. My brother opted to carry his bow on this trip instead of the T/C Black Diamond blackpowder rifle that he usually carries.

As we continued up the mountain on foot, we noticed that the hog sign was dwindling down. Nevertheless, we kept gaining elevation until we reached the top of the mountain and headed down the back side toward the secret woods. Well the secret woods were so secret that evidently the hogs didn't know about them. We did see where bears had bedded down and had made trails around the side of the mountain. A few red oak acorns were falling and it appeared that the bears were interested in those but there was absolutely no hog rooting to be seen! I asked my brother "Reckon how long it will take us to get back to the truck and drive back to where we passed all of that hog sign on the way up?" We looked at our watches and saw that it was 5:20 P.M. We knew that we had walked 40 minutes on the way in, so we could make it back in another 40 minutes and we would only have about a 10 minute drive to where the hog sign was plentiful. We decided to do just that and we would split up to double our chances.

As we were driving back, I noticed abundant sign on my side of the truck. I asked my brother to stop and let me out; I wanted to begin hunting right here! I planned on hunting until dark and we agreed on a meeting place. My brother was going to drive about a mile up the road and he would begin hunting, hunt until dark, and then drive back and pick me up. I moved out of sight of the road and began slowly making my way up a ridge toward the highest top in the area. The hog sign was spotty; there would be lots of rooting and then it might be awhile before I saw any more, but there was definitely enough to keep my interest and spirits up. As I reached the top, there was a flat ridge that headed to my right and I turned and worked my way slowly out that ridge. I was amazed at how open that ridge was this time of year. You could literally see one hundred yards in some places. The wind was blowing from my left to right and from just slightly behind me, so I opted to hug the thick stuff near the right hand side of the ridge and hope that any hogs that I spotted would be on my left.

I got into some major hog sign! I kept walking slowly out the ridge and spotted something black up ahead. I couldn't make out whether it was a bear or a hog so I held my fire. I kept trying to creep closer, and finally the animal came walking fast right toward me and stopped about 40 yards in front of me. It was a small bear; somewhere in the 80-100 pount range. He caught my scent and retreated into cover so I continued my stalk out the ridge. As I neared the end of ridge, I brought out my map and was planning my next move since the ridge had played out on me. All of a sudden, I saw movement to my left and my brother appeared carrying his bow. Somehow or other, we had hunted toward the same mountaintop and we wound up in each other's lap! He had seen plenty of hog sign too. We decided to split up again and that we would rendevous at the truck after dark. As we stood there and quietly argued about where we were and which was the closest route toward the truck, I heard movement in some briars about 20 yards in front of me and downwind! I pulled my pistol out of my holster, cocked it and brought it up. I quickly identified the quarry as a hog and knew that it was just a matter of seconds before it winded us. My brother whispered "shoot"; so I did!

The bullet hit the hog high in the lungs on its right side and it dropped it in its tracks and began squealing. There was another hog with it about 40 yards away that ran off. My brother took off after it with his bow, but he couldn't catch up with it. We decided that I would do my own photography of the hog (a 150-175 pound sow) since I had a treepod and an automatic timer on my digital camera. Then I would butcher it right where it lay. That would allow my brother to continue hunting since it was still an hour or so until dark.

To make a long story short, he didn't see anything else. He wound up getting into a major briar thicket and he came back to help me finish processing my hog. The best part was that it was only a 15 minute walk back to the truck!

Great story, excellent job...

Great story!! Thanks for posting it...... That is a fine hog and it should make some good eats!!

What happenedthe other photo you posted here, x-caliber??

Here it is again Whitworth. I wasn't sure about posting that one; it is kind of bloody. If you can post a pick of jwp's .300 Mag gutpile pig, I guess that I can post this one up.


I have never seen so much blood come out of an entry wound. Blood had foamed up around the edge of the hole and it was literally everywhere around the hog.



Notice how fat she is and how thin her hair is this time of year. I didn't think she weighed all that much until I went to hang her up. BTW, that was pretty good performance from those "junk" Gold Dots don't you think?

Thank you for re-posting! I killed a rather large pig with a Gold Dot, but still wasn't all that happy with it overall, even though it ultimately put the pig down. I would use them on light skinned game, but I like Texas heart shots!!

quote:

I killed a rather large pig with a Gold Dot, but still wasn't all that happy with it overall, even though it ultimately put the pig down.

I remember you posting that you had killed a large hog with a Gold Dot but considered it a junk bullet. I am just curious as to why you weren't happy with it? Did it run quite a bit or something? Less than perfect shot angle or broadside shot?

I think that I will continue using them in this gun until I have a problem. I have killed 2 hogs with this combination so far and the results have been great. Conversely, I have used a 250 grain SST muzzleloader bullet in the past and I think that it was designed to open up at a little faster speed than i can push it in the pistol barrel. I got complete pass throughs but the pigs would lie there forever before dying so I quit using them.

Actually everything was picture perfect in that one case and on that same hunt a Gold Dot failed to exit on a much smaller pig which I find unacceptable. I shot the big one at about 30-35 yards broadside and all went well. I like through and throughs and never fail to get them with WFNs or other flat-nosed hardcast bullets. I don't have confidence in expanding bullets when handgun hunting. They just don't inspire the confidence I get from other loads and bullets. Now, that said, I think they are fine for deer and smaller pigs, but when they hit heavy bone or a heavy shield on a large boar........ I'm not saying they won't work in even 75% of the time, but the perfect shot doesn't always present itself and I feel I got lucky with the way it performed.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but give me heavy for caliber harcast flat-points any and evry day........

I understand your point Whitworth. This is the old penetration vs. expansion argument and everyone has a different opinion on that subject. I personally don't mind not getting a complete pass through as long as I've got a short tracking job. I certainly respect your point of view as well.

I will admit that I wonder how well an un-gas-checked WFN cast bullet (the sabot should serve as the gas check) would perform in the short-barreled muzzleloader at 1600 fps?

To further expand on the subject, I think when your bullet displaces .476 - inch, there really is no need for expansion, but there is a real need for penetration to the vital...... Plus, I like two holes as they leak more.....

I understand your point of view Whitworth. However keep in mind that this little piggie, who weighed less than 100 lbs, took forever to die (literally 15 minutes) with a .451 caliber hole shot completely through his body right through the lungs.

A pig I shot in Missouri about 5 years ago ran off farther than hog I have shot to date (save for one other), and he was right around 200-lbs. I shot him with my .416 Remington Magnum with a 400 grain Hawk Deadsoft bullet at 2,400 fps. Despite the shredded heart and incredible damage, he ran and took some serious tracking to locate. I don't think there is a hard, fast rule to how they will succomb to the damage. I think they all react differently to being shot. Not trying to be contrary.......

Here's the heart:



Here's the exit on the rib cage:



And here's what I did with him afterwards.....

Great looking mount Whitworth! That is a great hog. And to think I was worried about putting up some bloody pictures. LOL! Are those his real tusks? My best hog had a busted up upper tooth which allowed his lower tusk to grow really long. I had the taxidermist record the number of inches of tusk extending out of his jaw and mount him accordingly with his real tusks. I'll try to get a photo of him put up. I didn't have my camera with me the day I shot him.

Here he is mounted. He weighed 200+ lbs. I killed him with a T/C Black Diamond muzzleloader.



I have noticed that heart-shot creatures tend to run farther too. Tell me about those "400 grain Hawk Deadsoft bullets". I'm not familiar with those. They sure did a number on that hog's heart!

You're right about no hard-fast rule...dead is dead! Thanks for sharing your experiences. I'm enjoying the discussion.

Those pictures are for the squeamish --

Hawk bullets are pretty inexpensive and they are very soft. Grizzly Cartridges actually offers a number of loads in a variety of calibers with Hawk bullets. They might work well at handgun velocities, but I have used them in .458 Lott and .416 Rem, and even though they killed their intended prey, a couple of them came apart. But, they do expand to the extreme!!

Thanks for the compliment on the mount! It actually placed in a large taxidermy show. Those are not his real tusks -- he actually had a broken tusk on the right side.........

While we're talking about hogs...

I shot a nice boar in the winter of 2006 right through the neck. He was lying in a bed snoozing with his ladies and I put a bullet through his neck. His lady friends ran off and he got his back legs up but couldn't get his front legs to work. I reloaded my muzzleloader and shot at him again while he was thrashing around. I missed him completely on the second shot. I reloaded again and finally got close enough to him to put a bullet through his lungs. This finished him off and I walked over to examine him. You could literally stick your fist through the hole in his neck and it appeared that his spine was completely severed, but it took a bullet through the lungs to finish him off.

These things can be tough!

Here is a photo of that boar:

You're not kidding they're tough! Sometimes they just don't want to concede that they are dead.......

x-caliber -- that hog that jwp shot with his .300 win mag -- the one that was unzipped, actually ran off in that condition.... It took a round frm his FA in .500 JRH to convince her that she was dead.......

quote:

Actually everything was picture perfect in that one case and on that same hunt a Gold Dot failed to exit on a much smaller pig which I find unacceptable. I shot the big one at about 30-35 yards broadside and all went well. I like through and throughs and never fail to get them with WFNs or other flat-nosed hardcast bullets. I don't have confidence in expanding bullets when handgun hunting. They just don't inspire the confidence I get from other loads and bullets. Now, that said, I think they are fine for deer and smaller pigs, but when they hit heavy bone or a heavy shield on a large boar........ I'm not saying they won't work in even 75% of the time, but the perfect shot doesn't always present itself and I feel I got lucky with the way it performed.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but give me heavy for caliber harcast flat-points any and evry day........

Whitworth, I thought about this statement and I don't think that we are too far off in our thinking. I would not want to hunt elk, moose, grizzly bear, etc. with an expanding pistol bullet. I would feel much better with a cast bullet in those situations. For example, I killed my 2007 elk with a .308 caliber Accubond in order to insure penetration to the vitals. I think that Redhawk's post where Dick Metcalf killed the Cape Buffalo with a cast bullet from a .500 S&W proves the point that cast bullets penetrate! I do think that if you hit shoulder bone you are better off because the bone fragments cause additional internal damage.

I would put deer, most black bear, and most hogs in a catefory where I think expanding bullets are fine. I'm not convinced that you need a cast bullet to penetrate to a hog's vitals, but keep in mind that I have never seen a 300 lb boar around here. The largest one that I have ever killed weighed exactly 241 lbs gutted. That would put him around 300 I guess. I shot him about twenty years ago with a 130 grain, .270 caliber Ballistic Tip and it worked great; it only ran about thirty yards before dying, and no I didn't get a pass through.

I would feel better with a cast bullet on big hogs and big black bears but again, while there have been some 500 lb black bears taken around here, all of the ones that I have seen over the years have weighed less than 300.

Again, I appreciate the civil debate and discussion.

Darrell

Darrell, I too enjoy civil discussion.

I have seen jacketed expanding bullets fail spectacularly on hogs. They are a lot tougher than deer from hide, to bones, to shield (obviously only on boars). I am the type of person who likes to find the ultimate load for all occasions, and leave it at that. I will dial my handgun in and then practice, practice, practice. Takes all of the guess work out of the equation. With a heavy, hardcast, flat-nose bullet, you can take shots at angles you can't with a hollow-point (obviously we are talking about handgun velocities -- and when I say handgun, I am talking about revolvers and not hand rifles). That 325 grain Gold Dot would be a poor choice for aTexas heart shot on a 300-lb hog, or any animal for that matter. So, what I am trying to say is that I always plan for the worst case scenario.......

OK, I understand your feelings on that subject. Now if you don't mind:

quote:

and when I say handgun, I am talking about revolvers and not hand rifles)

Please define when a handgun becomes a handrifle.

When all it is missing is a stock that will fit into your shoulder, and it requires a grip on the forend (and a stock on the forend), and it has/requires a bipod, and if it is a bolt action.......those items place them into the category of hand rifle IMO. They don't necessarily have to have all of these features. We actually have a hand rifle forum on the website (it is below this one when you look at the list of forums on this site). If you can't carry it in a holster....... I was drawing the distinction based on the attainable velocities of the hand rifle versus the typical revolver. The bottle neck cartridges and the long barrels can reach much higher velocities than a sixgun. I wasn't making a dig.......

I'm asking out of pure ignorance, not trying to be a smart a$$. Handrifles are those handguns with a barrel length of 16.25" or longer? If I understand the rules correctly, if you put a buttstock on a T/C frame with a barrel shorter than 16.25" you are committing a crime. What about a 15" .308 Encore for example, is that a handrifle?

I have several T/C barrels chambered for straight walled pistol cartridges: ex 8" .357 mag, 10" .357 max, 12" .44 mag, 13" .460 S&W. These are allowed here correct?

It appears that this hog tale should have been posted in the "handrifle" section instead of the handgun hunting forum. But, I do carry the gun in a holster and it has a EER scope attached to it. I'm so confused!

Again, not trying to be a smart a$$, just trying to understand. Thanks for the clarification. BTW, I prefer the term "specialty pistol" to "handrifle".

Darrell

It's all good, x-caliber!! This forum is definitely more popular than the hand rifle forum and there is a huge grey area in the definition IMO. Who cares, keep posting kills! I was watching a hunting video and the guy was using a Savage Stryker and you know, it really isn't much of a handun IMO -- bipod and bolt action....... There is a gray area especially in light of the fact that you can get TC barrels in all of the popular handgun cartridges. I was merely drawing the comparison based on attainable velocities.......

Whitworth you obviously like hog hunting stories so I thought that I would tell you one more. Once upon a time I was hunting in an area where I have killed several hogs in the past. I was having trouble locating any hog sign in the usual places so I decided to expand my borders a bit. I was sitting on top of a ridge and looking at the next ridge over. I could hear rustling in the leaves but couldn't see what was making all of that racket. So, I shrugged it off figuring it was squirrels and started down the ridge that I was sitting on. The ridge began to get very thick so i decided to go over to the other ridge that I had heard the racket on earlier and make my way back up to the top.

As I worked my way up the ridge, I noticed a hog nest right in the area where I had heard the rustling in the leaves about a half hour earlier. I peeked over the edge of the nest and this is what I saw:





These little fellows had evidently been making the racket that I heard earlier that day. I snapped a couple of photos with my digital camera.

I didn't kill a hog that day but it was one of my more memorable hunts.

I do love huntin' hogs!! Gotta hunt something between deer seasons! They are cute buggers when they're little! I caught a really small shoat once when I was out hunting and I have the pictures of it somewhere, I'll have to dig 'em up....... Look forward to the picture!

Fixed! Can you spot the third pig in the bottom picture? He is lying between the two pigs that you can see clearly. When I got too close, the two pigs ran off and left the litte fellow there by himself. He was terribly emaciated and I wondered if he could make it in the wild. I wound up making the decison to take him home and try to nourish him back to health. However, that wound up being the wrong decision because the little fellow died on me.

You took him home?! I probably would have done the same thing! Hey, at least you tried...... If he died in your care, he would have died had he remained in the wild. Thanks for digging up that picture! It's great!

quote:

Thanks for digging up that picture! It's great!

You're welcome! I enjoy talking about hogs and hog hunting. I hunt them with whatever I can, whenever I can! I added some photos to some of my previous posts about past hog hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
While we're talking about hogs...

I shot a nice boar in the winter of 2006 right through the neck. He was lying in a bed snoozing with his ladies and I put a 295 grain, .50 caliber Powerbelt through him. His lady friends ran off and he got his back legs up but couldn't get his front legs to work. I reloaded my muzzleloader and shot at him again while he was thrashing around. I missed him completely on the second shot. I reloaded again and finally got close enough to him to put a Powerbelt through his lungs. This finished him off and I walked over to examine him. You could literally stick your fist through the hole in his neck and it appeared that his spine was completely severed, but it took a bullet through the lungs to finish him off.

These things can be tough!

Here is a photo of that boar:

That's a big hog, x-caliber!! What did that monster weigh?? Where did you hunt him?

A handgun is a handgun, is a handgun! The only difference with the big single shots is that they encroach on rifle velocities and the use of rifle tough bullets. Ranges are extended a lot too but it makes no difference here.
But the question of hollow and soft point bullets will never end because some are made tough enough to expand just right and keep on truckin but others fail.
For the big revolvers, the easy way is a large meplat, fairly hard boolit. That will do it all with a minimum of meat damage and is easier then trying to find the perfect jacketed bullet and have some fail while looking for the right one. Same with cast hollow points, best to use them for varmints.
Controlled expansion without expanding too fast, weight retention and penetration is the secret to the rifle and pistol but to expand too much in the slower revolvers can mean a lost animal.
That is why I don't like the .357, some bullets are explosive and others don't expand at all and poke little holes. A balance must be found and it is very narrow. Even the right bullet for deer will fail on a larger animal. The right bullet for a large animal will poke a little hole through a deer. Too unpredictable for me.
With any rifle or long pistol there is a choice between total meat destruction, a clean kill or a lost animal depending on the bullet.
The big revolver with a heavy flat nose boolit covers all of it from chipmunks to elephant.
Then there is the .460 with the light bullets that tries to pretend it is a rifle!

quote:

What did that monster weigh??

I'm terrible at judging the weight of these things. I guessed him at 225 lbs.

quote:

Where did you hunt him?

All of the hogs that I have posted have been taken on Cohutta and Rich Mountain Wildlife Management areas. The one that you asked about specifically came off of Rich Mountain WMA. I live near Ellijay, GA. Ellijay lies right between Cohutta and Rich Mountain wildlife management areas. There are some trophy deer on these areas, but they are few and far between anymore. However, there is an abundant population of black bears and wild hogs. The problem is limited access. These wilderness areas have few roads and the terrain is very rugged and steep. Getting a hog out is a challenge! Most of the time we are 2-4 miles from the truck when we find hogs. We carry hoists in our packs along with plastic bags, so if we kill a hog it gets hoisted in a tree, skinned, deboned, and the meat is placed in plastic bags for packing it back to the truck.

It is very similar to Western wilderness hunting. We have the steep terrain, just not the altitude. I absolutely love it!

It sounds like a great place to hunt!! It does make someone consider shooting nothing but meat hogs for ease of packing out!

I would guess he's heavier than 225! That's a really good hog!

Thank you! He is one of my better ones and I was very proud of him.

Yes they are all nice animals and the hunting story was great. I enjoyed it.
BUT, at my age you can keep the steep hills!

quote:

BUT, at my age you can keep the steep hills!

I hear you BFRshooter!

I'm gonna keep doing it as long as I can!