I've done a lot of big game hunting with a rifle and a bow but have very limited experience with handgun hunting so I'm lookin' for some sound advice.

While I have 44Mag and 45ColtMag shooters I'm interested in deciding between 2 autos for a carry gun in the woods and trails where the concern is not so much buttheads but rather furry creatures to deal with along the lines of black bear, cougars, wolves, and maybe a ferrous raccoon.

1st choice - .40S&W with 10 round capacity and the lighter of the two but not that much; 180 hard cast slug with 532 ft lbs of energy

2nd choice - .45ACP with 11 rounds capacity; 230 hard cast slug with 477 ft lbs of energy.

I shoot them both equally well/bad so accuracy is not a big factor between the two. The round capacity is just about the same. I'm not sure that ft. lbs of energy is the best comparison along with bullet weight and am certainly open to better measures. These loads were shot with the autos through my chrono and are real world numbers.

QUESTION:

From the info given above, hopefully it's complete enough, what would be your choice for carry based upon your experience with either shooter???

The energy differences are not that great. I would take the additional round and bigger hole.

I would much prefer the 45 ACP.

2nd both these guys. But that N E dude is kinda shady, LOL!

I say get a few pork shoulders or a comparable test medium and do a little penetration test between the two. I'm assuming both firearms are on similar platforms that you're equally comfortable on as far as training/instincts (ie: safeties, control placement, etc)?

From what you listed, I would pick the 45 ACP. But if given the chance I would buy a 10mm.

quote:

Originally posted by AK Caster:
From what you listed, I would pick the 45 ACP. But if given the chance I would buy a 10mm.

I understand what you are saying, but rather than buy a 10mm I would simply strap on the 44Mag.

Those loads out of the .40S&W are about 40fps faster than an average of 13 out of 40 popular factory loadings for the 10mm. As with all reloading, it can make the cartridge perform while much of the factory stuff falls short.

I would shoot a 255 grain hard cast at 960 FPS out of my 45 ACP. The Buffalo
Bore factory load will do this as well as a handloads.

quote:

Originally posted by AK Caster:
From what you listed, I would pick the 45 ACP. But if given the chance I would buy a 10mm.

Yes, the Original 10mm loads were bad to the bone. The modern 10mm loads are not up to the same specs.

However, I still prefer a 1911 with good loads like the heavy Buffalo Bore loads.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:

quote:

Originally posted by AK Caster:
From what you listed, I would pick the 45 ACP. But if given the chance I would buy a 10mm.

Yes, the Original 10mm loads were bad to the bone. The modern 10mm loads are not up to the same specs.

However, I still prefer a 1911 with good loads like the heavy Buffalo Bore loads.

I looked into Buffalo Bore loads and on their website I copied the following on the actual in the gun performance they posted:

" 45 ACP+P

45ACP+P ammo is externally/dimensionally identical to 45 ACP ammo and can be fired in any 45 acp firearm that is in normal operating condition. However, the greater pressures and power of the +P ammo will give you greater slide velocity and if you are going to shoot more than a box or two of +P ammo, you should consider replacing your recoil spring with a Wolf Spring that gives roughly 4 to 6 lbs more spring weight than factory stock springs. A shock buffer might also be a good addition although it is not too necessary if you use the stronger spring.


The below velocities were fired from my personal Colt Gold Cup 1911 (5 inch)


1. 45185-----------1180 fps (185gr. Jhp)
2. 45200-----------1078 fps (200gr. Jhp)
3. 45230------------979 fps (230gr. Jhp)
4. 45230FMJ------981 fps (230gr. Fmj-FLAT NOSE)
5. 45255------------960 fps (255gr. HARD CAST-FLAT NOSE)


As always, with Buffalo Bore Ammunition, we use real world firearms to give real world data and results. Laboratory test barrels tell you little about what kind of speed you can expect from your stock firearm.

All our 45 ACP+P loads utilize flash suppressed powders so that you will not be blinded by your own gunfire should you need to fire in the dark when the criminal element is at work.


The three JHP loads are designed for defense against humans, while the two non-expanding loads are designed to shoot through large shoulder bones or the skull on a black bear. These non-expanding bullets also work well if you need to shoot through cover like car doors or stick frame walls."

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Both of their 230 grain loads are in the 979-981 fps range and are jacketed slugs and this is out of a 5" barrel. I would have thought that the velocity would have been higher from the reputation that is around about how hot Buffalo Bore stuff is but like the fact that they publish actual data from their own guns.

I checked my spreadsheet on my reloads and with a hard cast 230g. (yes I know that is different in performance from a jacketed load) which should give out some "special" performance, I'm getting an average of 966 fps with a range of 1100 fps to 945fps out of a Glock 30 with a Lone Wolf standard length barrel of 3.8 inches although the Lone Wolf barrel looks a wee bit longer, say 4.0 inches. And that is with 11 shots and a loaded weight of 38 oz.. Maybe I should keep my reloads and be happy with that performance. That is a Laser Cast 230g on top of 9.0g or AA#5.

The thing that intrigues me still is my Glock 27 with a 180 grain Laser Cast slug at an average of 1164 fps with a ES of 24 and a SD of 9 as a potential shooter. That is with 7.2g. of Power Pistol with a Lone Wolf standard length barrel for the 27 which is a stock length of 3.43" but the Lone Wolf barrel could take that to 3.5-3.6" also. At 27oz loaded with a total of 10 rounds it would be light to carry. I haven't looked at the Buffalo Bore .40S&W loads but my guess is that the load I'm shooting is a small amount shy of their velocities but would also guess that they are shooting out of a longer barrel.

The reality is the .45 is a wee bit easier to handle with the recoil than the .40 as both of these loads are on the warm side, but that's where I want to be.

I hear what you guys are saying from the experience that you have had with the .45 and understand that there is a difference in that bullet weight. I'll be packing the .45 first with my handloads and with the .40 a close second. Thanks for your experience.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Yes, the Original 10mm loads were bad to the bone. The modern 10mm loads are not up to the same specs.

The modern loads from most of the big time commercial manufacturers are little more than warm .40 S&W's. Winchester 175gr silvertips, and offerings from Buffalo Bore and Double Tap differentiate the 10mm from the .40. Double Tap hard cast 10mm's are my woods carry load in a Dan Wesson 1911.

.45 hands down. I'm not a .40 fan at all.

First off, throw the energy levels out as this is a calculated figure used to sell "bigger and better" calibers to people who don't know any better. Energy is not transferred and "energy dump" is a myth.

I prefer heavy for caliber bullets and although the 1,100 to 1,200 fps velocity range seems optimal, I have gotten good penetration with cast bullet loads down to the 800 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:
First off, throw the energy levels out as this is a calculated figure used to sell "bigger and better" calibers to people who don't know any better. Energy is not transferred and "energy dump" is a myth.

I prefer heavy for caliber bullets and although the 1,100 to 1,200 fps velocity range seems optimal, I have gotten good penetration with cast bullet loads down to the 800 fps.

+ 1 on that sentiment.

.45 or .40 every time for me.

quote:

irst off, throw the energy levels out as this is a calculated figure used to sell "bigger and better" calibers to people who don't know any better. Energy is not transferred and "energy dump" is a myth.

I prefer heavy for caliber bullets and although the 1,100 to 1,200 fps velocity range seems optimal, I have gotten good penetration with cast bullet loads down to the 800 fps.

Me too. MS shows wisdom.

I tend to push my 45 rather hard compared to most with 275s at 1100ish but i get complete through and through penetration on game as large as black bear with the 255 grainers at 950. My 1100 fps load shoots very accurately so i just run with what works. Even my heavy load only has 738 ft lbs which is nothing compared to any decent rifle yet i feel just as confident with my handgun as i do with any long gun.

What powder are you useing to get your 275s up to 1100ish?