Pecos and Jim;I think if you consider that this subject is posted under Handgun Hunting the 38/357 is at best 3rd behind 44spl/44rm and45lc.I agree that the38/357 is a great round for self defense and concealed carry.Yeah my 5 inch S&W is kinda clunky for concealed carry but if that was the subject I would be voting for my 1911 45acp.my .02 cents worth . w/regards

I agree 100% gophershooter. The thread took a bit of a tangent. I read the original question to be "the most versatile handgun hunting caliber." Your rankings also are right on.

This is the original question:
"What is according to you the most versatile caliber?
For hunting,reloading,shooting,..."

Versatile: "1. adapting easily to or skilled in different subject or occupations, 2. having many uses"

Versatile CALIBER, not firearm. I can have a small S&W .357 for concealed carry, a bull barreled PPC gun for target shooting, a 4" or 6" revolver for field use, an 8 3/8" scoped Python or a 10" Contender for serious hunting, all in the CALIBER of .357 Magnum - and again I admit to cheating just a wee bit by including the .38 Special here.

The .44 Magnum or .45 Colt are far better calibers for big game hunting - no contest there. The .22 is far better and cheaper for plinking and small game hunting and practice and general fun. The .256 Hawkeye is better at handgun varminting. A 9mm, .40 S&W and or .45 ACP is better suited to fitting in multi-shot magazine fed semi-autos.

But the question seems to be about overall versatility. Which caliber, not make or model of handgun, fits the MOST uses. In that light, I would still say the .357/.38 Special pairing is far and away the most versatile CALIBER.

But that certainly does not stop me from owning .22's, .41's, .44's, or .45's either. Versatility? Heck, I want the BEST caliber for the specific use. And just for the sake of debate, IF I were limited to one and only one handgun it would most likely be a 6" or 4" .357 Magnum revolver. I honestly cannot think of any caliber/handgun pairing that would offer more versatility.

Jim, Jim, Jim ... It appears you are simply wrong because you do not agree with me! Why do I propigate this discussion when it is obvious that I will not persuade you to come over to the dark side? Simply because I'm too darn frustrated at work and this is as good of an outlet as any!!

First, I failed to read the exact wording of the original question. Rather I read it in context of the forum "Handgun Hunting." If I were to follow your logic Jim, I would have to say that I'd make a .44 mag my only handgun if I were limited to one pistol. (Thank goodness this is NOT the case however!)

About the only use(s) that you list where I would grant you .38/.357 superiority is concealability and possibly target. It is much easier to download than it is to upload a cartridge past its capacities. The target use is suspect because I'm confident that I could find a nice accurate .44 spl load that would be just as accurate as the .38.

Okay, Grasshopper see light now. Previously fail to understand context of question.

Would it help to know that for many years an old model Ruger SBH in .44 magnum was my only centerfire handgun? At that I used it for darn near everything? (No such thing as legal concealed carry in Utah and Florida back then.)

FWIW, a Lyman #429215, which is a 215 gas checked SWC, at about 1000 fps is quite versatile as that was what I used mostly for everything I used that revolver for.

Most versatile? .357 magnum.

If I could only have one caliber? .454 Casull or modern .45 Colt- same thing in my mind.

What I'd miss the most if I could only have one? My .22 pistol. And the US Constitution, too. Yeah, that too.

Pete

Got to get me a .41 some day!

Versatility It has to be the S&W 4" 44 Mag. Faster to reload for defensive purposes than a single action, especially with speed loaders, for protection against man or beast. Powerful enough to protect you from ANY animal with proper loads and head shots. Accurate enough to feed you, with loads for light or heavy game, and the Speer shot shells work really well. Light and portable enough to be carried ALL the time. "Factory" ammo of all power levels avaliable almost anywhere. The guns are widely avaliable and not TOO expensive for something that does all the jobs it can do.

As much as I like the 357 mag, I think it's fans are being short sighted in praising it's versitility. Yes, it is mid range in the handgun round spectrum, but it really does fall on its face on the upper end.

Now to me it is a tie between the 44 mag, and the 45 colt. They can be easily down loaded to do anything the 357 can do, and be just as friendly to shoot. Loaded up they are suitable for game which the 357 just isn't.

I guess I'll just have to give a sorta vote for my pet favorite 480, which has been an outstanding hunting round, easy to load for, and very, very accurate. But, I doubt it will ever garner the general acceptance the 44/45 have.

since this is a hunting forum that should leave out self defense? the 454 casull wins you can download to 45lc power or lower,then way up to 454 power.if handload then you have unlimited supply of bullets and power. i have a 475 and 480r and 454 .i prefer the 475 linebaugh and for shear power the 475 wins.but the 454 is more accurate.3/4''at 50 yards w 395gr cpwfn leupold 2x eer scope 475 cant do this.neither 480r

I'd say the 44 Magnum, because it's rim makes it suitable for double action revolvers. The 45 Colt is really a SA round.

H. C.

I'm gonna jump in here because I'm no expert (Has-been shot of goo) but because there is no one "versitile" caliber or pistol, I have an excuse to go buy another pistol, shotgun, rifle, bow, etc. just so I can learn the merits and drawbacks of that particular weapon. My favorite one is the one I'm looking to add to my collection. This argument is like arguing which game meat tastes the best. If I shot it, then it is the best. When it comes to versitile two guns come to mind: TC Contender, and Desert Eagle. Both are multiple choice on caliber, one is handier in a tactical situation, the other offers more choices.

I'm gonna go with the .357 family group and I am proud of the group I am joining. As I recall, the original question was which handgun CARTRIDGE is the most versatle.

I have taught beginners to shoot with .38 Special, shot PPC with the same, killed rabbits and squirrels with that round, carried a .357 for self defense working a high risk job (OK, I mostly carried other stuff for that, but I was not underarmed with the .357.) Sitting in the corner is an H&R rifle in .357 Max. At woods ranges, it will kill anything that needs killing East of the Mississipi.

And they will do it all with piddling amounts of powder and lead.

Beat that.

My vote would be for the old 45 colt or maybe the 41 mag then again there is the 44 mag. I guess I pretty much like them all.

10mm

I don't think you can get more "versatile" than that.

I have to mention the .357 Remington Maximum for this thread.
Sort of like .38 special (short) .357 Magnum (long) and .357 Maximum (LR).

"What is according to you the most versatile caliber?

For hunting,reloading,shooting,..."

Caliber: .357 caliber bullets are found in a ton of weights and types.

Hunting: you can shoot small game with a .38 special that is about as popular as .22LR is available off the shelf every where, and does not waste meat.
Coyotes can be easily dispatched with a .357 Magnum.
You can shoot 400lb critters and know that they will expire with the Maximum and a proper load.
I am not advocating that we use it on big bruins, because this presents another less versitle handgun caliber into the formula.

Reloading: .38 special, .357 Magnum, and .357 Maximum brass is easy to find you must admit.
And it is about the easiest cartridge to reload.
Powder usage is sensible in all the brass.
Small charges in the .38 special (short) to
the .357 Maximum with 23gr. of H110 and a 180gr. projectile has a lot of stopping power to rival a larger "mainstream" caliber.
It is efficient.

Shooting: The Maximum is a lot flatter shooting than a .44 Magnum for example of the top end of power, without the recoil of the .44 mag also.
If your girlfriend gets bored with the .38 special, put in some .357 Magnums to step up the pace a little.
For plinking tin cans we are back to the .38 special.

Versitle, efficient, and cheaper to shoot.

I guess you should mention the 360DW in that group too, then.

MWalker has made about the most sense of anyone proposing a .35 cal round. It is true that a .357 Maximum chamber gives you a very versatile handgun. I guess that I overlooked it becuase the Max version just isn't that common.

Also, you don't find a lot of revolvers chambered for the round. Now that isn't a reflection on the round's versatility, but I guess that I was thinking in terms of a revolver because it is probably the most versatile form of handgun for a given caliber (yes that excludes single shots)...besides, who wants to defend themselves with a single shot? anyone?? maybe we can hear a few words from General Custer...oops, he already tried to defend himself with single shots and he is no longer around to warn us!

i dont shoot factory loads in my 45.. I have bought EXACLTY 2 boxes of 45 LC factory, for a friend's xmas gift.

45LC, is most versatile.. yep...
can shoot itty bitty plinkers at 38 special speeds, and then can shoot 2 times the bulelt weight of the 158 at 1100-1300 fps (okay, so 300 aint 316, but you get my point)

It's not a DGR, and if I am "backpacking" in bruin country, it'll be my 10mm compact that i'll be carrying.. because it can dump 10 quicker than I can, and I can empty it pretty durn fast and accuratly (man sized target at 10 steps.. dunno how many seconds, never timed it.. It's the texas DPS target, in you know what that means)

It's like the 375 HH.. sure, it's not a varmit gun, but you can dust PDs with it.. and sure, it's not the biggest monster masher in the world, but it's taken thousands of elephants...

Let's ask this another way.. what's the most VERSATILE wrench in your toolbox? Your 2" cresent wrench is.. not the best wrench, just the one that can do the most...

conversely, I have a 708 pistol.... that if i have a rest or shooting sticks, is pretty durn awesome.. but, you can't shoot it offhand and expect to hit a barn with it, from the inside... (savage striker)

cheeers
jeffe

B_Koes, thanks for the compliment - I think.

The category "Most versatile handgun caliber" as I read it did not mention self defense, which may include single shot weapons if you are quick enough in the particular self defense event.

Revolvers in the Maximum are hard to find because a particular magazine gave the chambering a bad rap a long time ago (forcing cone errosion, and top strap cutting).

As I understand it Dan Wesson still has them available on the market. I love my Encore!

Yep, George and the 7th Calvary had single shots, and were overun with abused Native Americans that simply had enough abuse.

I did a quick check on Dan Wesson firearms and they do make a model 70/740 in .357 Maximum, along with several other higher powered revolvers that accept a range of cartridges, with various barrel lengths, adding another variable to the most versatile handgun caliber question.

Dan Wesson Firearms

MY VOTE GOES TO THE .357 MAG TOO. I CAN LOAD MY MODEL 27 S&W WITH HOT HANDLOADS OR MILD .38SPL TARGET LOADS. THIS OLD REVOLVER SHOOTS EVERY THING I'VE LOADED FOR IT VERY WELL. I DON'T FEEL A BIT UNDERGUNNED. MY FAVORITE LOAD IS A HARD CAST 150GR SWC OVER 6.2GRS OF BULLSEYE. I DO HAVE SOME FACTORY LOADS OF 158 GR.JSP THAT I WOULD USE FOR DEFENSE IF THE NEED ARISES.

THE 2ND AMENDMENT PROTECTS US ALL..........

That's what the 360DW is; a shell that is in between the 357 mag and 357 max. So there's 4 "calibers" you can shoot with one gun.

But that is still 4 "calibers".

ScottB
Thanks for the extra tidbit about the 360DW.
I had to look that one up and again visited the Dan Wesson website.

I don't think I will be trimming the .357 Maximum case down to make the 360DW, but as you say it makes another version of available power based on one chamber.

I was glad to see that Dan Wesson sells factory ammunition for the .357 Maximum also.

I'm just guessing here, but I assume the 360DW evolved from 357 maximum shooters using revolvers and 200gr bullets. Trimming the case back a little allows it to seat on the chamfer and not protrude past the cylinder mouth.

Just a guess, but I have been playing with the same idea in the 454.

As much as I love the .357 (I have numerous, including two Colt Pythons), my vote has to go to the 44 mag. All the arguments about the 38 in the 357 can be stated with the 44 special for reduced loads.

Nothing beats the SW 629!

Jim in Idaho
Yes I've had my 454 SRH straped to me concealed more than a few times-not hard to do actually fits perfectly in a shoulder holster!

As far as the caliber I'd choose -Sorry I'm Bias Its 45/454!! Dito for all the reasons already stated!

[ 12-19-2002, 23:44: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

Since the question was which is the most versatile, I would have to go with the .44 mag. All of mine have been just as accurate as any of my other guns (except for .22 target pistols and a Python,) mild with .44 Specials and potent with heavymagnum loads. My Model 29 will give the Python a run for its money and outshoots my other .357s. None of my .357s will come close to the .44's effectiveness on game, however.

Okay, I'm gonna stray from the flock here. My choice is the 41 Mag.
My Magnaported 6" S&W M-57 can do anything a 357 or 44 can, and I think it's easier to control that either of the two. Except maybe aother 6" N frame 357. I can load it down with cast bullets or up with 210 grain jacketed HP's and match the performance of either. But then again, I'm biased as I've been shooting it for over 20 years...

To me the most versitile cal is 38/357 for these reasons anybody from a child to full size adult can shoot it.that is one thing that all the replies seem to be missing you can buy the ammo anywhere and all though not my choice for big game you can use it with good results.It's always better to use bigger like 41 or 44 and so on.As far as reloading it's one of the easiest to reload.This is my opinions i personally carry a 44mag almost everwhere i go it's my favorite but we are talking versitile i recomend the 38/357 for the first gun i love my 45 acps but where i live when it gets cold like the other day when you shoot auto's you can actually watch the slide action on the auto now that's my two cents happy holidays

Versatility for a hunting handgun? My opinion, start at .41 and work up. The .41 is the most accurate of the .41, .44, and .45's, followed by the .44, the the .454, and the .45 Colt, this is in my guns(friends .41). The .44 has had new life breathed into it, just check the Hodgdon website and look at the new loads for the .44, I was for years a dedicated .45 Colt man, then I bought a NIB Super Blackhawk from a co-worker for $200 including 2 boxes of ammo and a shoulder holster(he wanted a bow). The .357 will certainly work in some situations, but I would rather have a weapon that will work in many more.

Count me in with the 45 Colt as well....My Ruger Redhawk shoots like a champ..

Gentlemen:

The .357 Magnum/.38 Special get my vote for the most versatile handgun caliber. Handguns have been made in both DA/SA revelover and semi-auto pistol. Colt at one time even chambered the 1911A1 in .38 Special for wadcutter use. Revolver frame size is available in "J", "K", "L", "N" and equivalent to fit any hand size. Multiple barrel lenght options to fit any requirement. Cylinder capacity ranges include 5shot,6shot,7shot, and 8shot with full moon clips. Lever and pump action(Israeli Arms Timber Wolf)rifles have been made. It is an international caliber. Accuracy is extreme! Has dominated PPC shooting many years and is at the top of the list for IPSC Revolver Class and used at IHMSA. Holds revolver world speed shooting record set by Jerry Miculek. Easy to reload, however, not necessary has quality factory ammo available throughout power profile. Recoil is tolerable. Capable of plinking, serious target, personal defense, small big game hunting, and backup to big game hunting and backpacking.

B

Ok, my $0.02:
I say .454 Casull, at least in the Ruger Super Redhawk, MRI BFI, or (I guess) the Raging Bull.

Why? The above guns can all shoot .45 Colt rounds.
The .45 Colt has a huge range of power, and when you add the power of the .454 for the REALLY big stuff...you get a pretty much unbeatable combo, imho.

I mean, how many other guns have such a huge range of power? .45 Colt "Cowboy" loads at 750fps all they up to 260gr PGHP's at 1850fps.
From plinking to elephant...

If you want to ignore big game hunting, and stick to deer-size game...then go with the 10mm!

In the G&A 2002 Gun Annual, page 31, Ed Sanow, one of the original proponents of the .357 one shot stop test (Along with Evan Marshall), now supports the Federal .40 S&W 155 grain Hydra-Shok as the number one one shot stopper. According to his article, he now carries a Glock model 22 instead of the S&W model 686. Just for conversation (Argument).

For versatility in the field, the .44 RM covers the upper end and the .44 Special does a pretty good job on the lower end and the special is easy to shoot by almost any shooter. With a 50 yd. velocity of 1100 fps to 1370 fps allows the projectile to perform the way it was designed to. Velocity is necessary for optimum bullet performance. A half ton (1000+ FT-Lbs) of muzzle energy and a retained energy of up to 885 FT-LBS at 50 yds make the.44 mag. a better choice in the field, (in the absence of a rifle or a 12 gauge).

Neither the .44 mag. nor the Special rate very high as a self defense round where power factors, over penetration, lost energy, and the ability to recover from the recoil and a bright muzzle blast come into play. Here the .357, with NON hunting type loads, gets the edge. Due to its compact size, like a model 60 five shot, it is likely to be there when you need it, while the others are too heavy to carry. 8-10 hours with a 52 oz. gun, in anybody's holster, gets heavy. Although the .357 offers the same, the .44 RM can also be used in any of the little lever action carbines, if you can say that this adds to cartridge versatility. I have used the .357 against full adrenaline aggressive animals in the field (not hunting where the animal is at a state of standing rest) and was successful on 6 animals of 80 to 200 lbs. with excellent performance, and I carry one today. As much as I use the .357, it will not do what the .44 Mag. will do in field conditions, but the .44 is too much everything in a self defense scenarios.

ANY handgun is not the BEST choice for anything, no matter what the movies say. A 12 gauge is a better close quarter�s tool against man or beast. A rifle covers the rest. A handgun fits when you can not carry the two BEST choices and fills the gap between a long gun and a Bowie knife. You may want to look at the research of the TOTAL number of handgun shootings in a year in Detroit, New York, L.A. and any other large city and examine the percentage of shots that were lethal compared to those that were not lethal.

Versatility depends on the environment where the tool is most used.

Buy a .22, .357, .44, .40 S&W, .357 Sig, .45 ACP and a .454 Casull and you can cover it all. My wife is convinced (after 30 years of convincing) that it takes all of these to have a minimal handgun battery. You also need various bbl. lengths and finishes depending on what color suit you will be wearing that day; kind of like matching shoes and purses.

Your question may not be answered, but you quest may have begun.

BER007:

If you have the time, would you post a summary of the votes each caliber received?

Thank You.

Buliwyf

454 Raging Bull with 8" barrel and a 2x scope.

fireball

well it a 44mag. all the way load it light and load hot with a 180gr. up to 320gr. bullets.


one shot kills when you hit the mark-----> (+)

Idaho Bob

[ 01-12-2003, 13:14: Message edited by: bullseye44 ]