So, looking at the Garret Cartridges website he states that his 310 gr. loading at around 1300 fps, if I remember correctly, is good for all STEEL 44 magnum revolvers.

Now I have noticed over the years reading this and other sites references to Model 29s not being able to take much abuse relative to, say, a Blackhawk. Okay, I'll accept that. But at what point might a 29 shoot loose as the saying goes?

Have any of you guys run a steady diet of heavy loads through a 29 to see just how much it could take? It seems that every other test known to man has been conducted by one or more of you.

Landrum

I have had to have my S&W 4" tuned up twice, and my 6.5" once over the years.

They were both shot a lot with 240gr hard case and 22 to 22.5gr of [old] 2400, as well as with jacketed bullets. The 4" shot a lot of factory ammo, it was a duty gun for several years, the 6.5" sjot a fair amount of factory, it was a duty fun for a whikle, and with a fair amount of H110.

I did nor keep a round count back in those days, but both guns were shot a lot, more than most anyone besides a competition shooter.

I loaded 44 Mag ammo on a Star loader, and most of the factory was issued to me.

I have shot Garrett ammo and it is great stuff.

No doubt the more you shoot full power ammo the sooner your gun will need a tune up.

Now I tend to load my everyday ammo down a bit and save the thermonuclear loads for bear country.

After all how many 310gr ,loads at 1300fps do you need to shoot in a year??

But in my 44's I do not hesitate to carry/shoot them when I need to.

Landrum

To give a more direct answer to your question, I would not want to use a S&W with full power loads for something like silhouette competition, but for normal sporting purposes, shooting a box or two to sight in and test, and then shooting a few rounds now and then, I would not hesitate to use Garrett's ammo in a S&W.

Well, as being someone who has worn out a 629 I can say it takes quite a bit. The gun below is the first handgun I ever bought. Got it new in 1993.

Since then I have put over 10,000 rounds through it. Most of those were well over max. I used to start with the max load listed in my reloading book, and then work up until it flattened the primers and became hard to eject the empties.

As you can see in the bottom picture the trigger pin finally worked loose. This pin shouldn't be visible on a new Smith. I also had to replace the screw that holds the yoke in place.

The cylinder still locks up tight enough, but I kind of decided to retire it a while back since I have newer and more powerful revolvers now.

I used to load 23gn of old 2400 with a 225 LSWC. I shot this in a M29 bought new in 87. I don't know how many rounds of it I shot, but probably 3k+ before the cylinder notches started to bulge visibly. It was my understanding that changes were made after that to make it a more durable gun.

Shot enough all guns wear out. I would use the Garret ammo in mine

Only believe 5% of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see.My old Mo.29`s got Cylinder end shake from gobs of heavy loads.S&W beefed up the stress points with the 629 Classic Deluxe.I now have a Performance Center 629 It is the most accurate 44 Mag I have ever owned and has had no problems period,no matter what I shoot in it.No its probably not Super Redhawk Strong,but I would not be afraid to shot anything in it that you can shoot in the Ruger.

It should be noted that all the 29's and 629's made since the early 1990's have all the "Endurance Package" upgrades incorporated at that time. They are much more durable than the earlier versions.

I still have the first Model 29 I ever bought, and I have shot lots of heavy loads through it. The cylinder regularly unlocks and rotates backwards with heavy loads. Also, it has twice locked itself up and required surgery to unlatch the cylinder. Even the newer ones cannot take a Ruger beating. I love Model 29s and still have a couple, but if your goal is to shoot lots of heavy loads, you would be better served with a Ruger. I would use the Garrett loads, but wouldn't feed it a steady diet of them. But that's just me.

Whitworth

Sounds like you 29 just needs a tune up.
A new hand, new Cyl locking bolt, stretch the crane, a few bangs with a small hammer, then it would be good as new.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Whitworth

Sounds like you 29 just needs a tune up.
A new hand, new Cyl locking bolt, stretch the crane, a few bangs with a small hammer, then it would be good as new.

And yet another tune up.......

How come my Rugers never need tune ups??

I do not intend to shoot heavy loads from my 629. I am, however, interested in the subject and wanted to see what others have learned through experience.

A good, sturdy SBH will be fed those nasty loads in due time.

Landrum

After my dissapointing run with the M29, I bought a Ruger Super Redhawk and put several thousand rounds of hot loads through it without any problems at all. I was pushing 330's at 1500fps from a 7.5" bbl with a heavy dose of 296.
I do try to keep my normal everyday loads on the milder end of the spectrum now.
I think a great heavy duty 44mag would be the BFR 5" shorty.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=248909319

I think I'd put either the Black micarta grips, or a Houge Mono-grip on it.

Lar, I don't think there is a stronger .44 made.

There is no doubt that there are tougher 44 Mags than the S&W.

I still have my original Super Blackhawk, from 1970.

However the S&W 44 Mag is my favorite.

They will hold up to a BUNCH of full power load shooting.

Just not as BIG a BUNCH as Ruger's or FA's.

Or BFRs.......

I love my 29s, but I am much kinder to them nowadays as I have recognized their frailties.

A lot of old wives tales. You can shoot a 29 forever with heavy loads as long as you lubricate. The problem with them is RECOIL from heavy boolits. Parts get battered and peened.
Stay at 265 gr max with boolits down to 240 and you will not harm the gun if you stay in pressure limits for the caliber.
The 29 is NOT a weak gun, some parts have too much inertia with heavy recoil is all. That comes from heavy boolits.
If you deform the frame or crane, it is YOUR fault. If you damage any parts, it is YOUR fault.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
You can shoot a 29 forever with heavy loads as long as you lubricate. The problem with them is RECOIL from heavy boolits. Parts get battered and peened.

So which one is it? Will it live forever with heavy loads or have a problem with recoil from heavy bullets?

i have a very rare blued performance center model 29, i would never shoot heavy loads through it regularly, a simple look at the gun and comparison to a ruger or that shorty bfr, or FA83 will tell ya all ya need to know if it's as strong or not, it's got much less metal throughout in all high stress areas. accurate as heck, but not near as strong. if ya want the garrett's i'd pony up for that bfr shorty, it's as strong as they get, enough mass to tame recoil, my son shoots his 454 full bore without problem and just killed a bear with his. the big benefit to the shorty bfr is all the long super heavy 44 loads that are for just the super redhawk will all fit easily in the bfr, but they won't fit a blackhawk, it's the longest cylindered 44 mag available. if you're gonna step up to the 310gr garretts why not just step up to the 330's or buffalo bore 340 load.

quote:

So which one is it? Will it live forever with heavy loads or have a problem with recoil from heavy bullets? Confused

It is how hard the gun comes back, not the pressure.
Even limp wrist milk toasts that let the gun come back hard with a 240 gr can have a problem. Hold the gun and reduce problems. Once recoil overcomes what you can hold, you should back off.
One man has a 2" barrel rise and another gets clocked in the head! Which gun will last longer?
What ruins scopes? INERTIA.
You seen what heavy boolits did to your 29, why are you confused? Seems I had to beat the cylinder latch with a stick and hammer to open the cylinder, then remove the peened end of the unlocking pin. Seems as if some of your guns had the cylinder unlock and rotate backwards.
You know what I am talking about, why dispute it?

...finger edging ever closer to the disintegrator...

That's counter intuitive. Though I doubt there is a measurable difference between how much abuse a revolver takes between someone who holds it stiffly and someone who has a more relaxed grip, it would seem that the more relaxed grip would spread the recoil out and thus be easier on the parts.

Landrum

quote:

Posted 31 August 2011 01:33 Hide Post
quote:
So which one is it? Will it live forever with heavy loads or have a problem with recoil from heavy bullets? Confused

It is how hard the gun comes back, not the pressure.
Even limp wrist milk toasts that let the gun come back hard with a 240 gr can have a problem. Hold the gun and reduce problems. Once recoil overcomes what you can hold, you should back off.
One man has a 2" barrel rise and another gets clocked in the head! Which gun will last longer?
What ruins scopes? INERTIA.
You seen what heavy boolits did to your 29, why are you confused? Seems I had to beat the cylinder latch with a stick and hammer to open the cylinder, then remove the peened end of the unlocking pin. Seems as if some of your guns had the cylinder unlock and rotate backwards.
You know what I am talking about, why dispute it?

Jim, have you ever considered that you sometimes don't communicate your points well and actually contradict yourself? This is what happened here.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Jim, have you ever considered that you sometimes don't communicate your points well and actually contradict yourself? This is what happened here.

Sometimes? Getting to the point I am going to have to buy the program in order to keep up with which position/direction he's taking at any given moment.

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Jim, have you ever considered that you sometimes don't communicate your points well and actually contradict yourself? This is what happened here.

Sometimes? Getting to the point I am going to have to buy the program in order to keep up with which position/direction he's taking at any given moment.

You need that bfr decoder ring. I've ordered mine, but they are on "back order" at this time unfortunately I'll just have to wait

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by MS Hitman:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
Jim, have you ever considered that you sometimes don't communicate your points well and actually contradict yourself? This is what happened here.

Sometimes? Getting to the point I am going to have to buy the program in order to keep up with which position/direction he's taking at any given moment.

You need that bfr decoder ring. I've ordered mine, but they are on "back order" at this time unfortunately I'll just have to wait

Doesn't Freedom produce those? If that's the case, it means only 50% work as advertised.

It is a lack of understanding INERTIA.
The gun held tight is better while one allowed to fly back hard can get damaged parts. That is what super heavy boolits do, they bring the gun back too fast and hard. Parts want to stay in place from inertia and other parts bang them.
If you are very strong and hold recoil down, you can shoot heavier boolits.
I said the 29 is a good gun, just don't abuse it.
Personal junk is creeping into this again.
NEVER have I contradicted the 29. You have to show that. It has ALWAYS been too much recoil and part inertia. NEVER pressures.
MS, go back to EVERY post about the 29 and show a single difference in what I have said. Don't you see what is going on?
Whit, you sure know better.
JWP, take the chip off your shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
It is a lack of understanding INERTIA.
The gun held tight is better while one allowed to fly back hard can get damaged parts. That is what super heavy boolits do, they bring the gun back too fast and hard. Parts want to stay in place from inertia and other parts bang them.
If you are very strong and hold recoil down, you can shoot heavier boolits.
I said the 29 is a good gun, just don't abuse it.
Personal junk is creeping into this again.
NEVER have I contradicted the 29. You have to show that. It has ALWAYS been too much recoil and part inertia. NEVER pressures.
MS, go back to EVERY post about the 29 and show a single difference in what I have said. Don't you see what is going on?
Whit, you sure know better.
JWP, take the chip off your shoulder.

I know better? What in th hell does that mean? You contradicted yourself in that post from one sentence to the next. I only asked that you clarify. Period.

quote:

I know better? What in th hell does that mean? You contradicted yourself in that post from one sentence to the next. I only asked that you clarify. Period.

Go back and read again, nothing is different. The gun can take heavy loads of the right weight bullets for EVER. Once recoil and inertia overcomes parts, then parts can be harmed.
Explain yourself. I said the gun can take heavy loads as long as recoil is not exceeded.
You can not contradict a single thing I said.
Bring your 29 here, I have 330 boolits you can shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
You can shoot a 29 forever with heavy loads as long as you lubricate. The problem with them is RECOIL from heavy boolits. Parts get battered and peened.

You old grump, take a look at these two statements. They contradict themselves. There is nothing to debate.

Why are you being such a contrarian? You somehow feel the compulsion to counter any and EVERY statement made that differs from your opinion. What's gotten into you?

No, not at all. Heavy loads or heavy boolits? Can there be a difference? Just what is the recoil difference from a 240 gr and a 320 gr? What does the gun feel?
You keep chipping but have seen what heavy boolits did to your gun. Why do you like the 265 gr RD over my heavy boolits?
Remember, I can load my 330 gr boolits for you but I will not fix your gun. Do you want me to retire lighter boolit molds and just make you heavy ones?
I did the work, I know your gun's limits. Should I exceed them? Real easy because the Ruger takes anything I feed it. I can batter your S&W into scrap without exceeding pressure limits.
Your choice!

It has been at least two years since I shot any Ranch Dogs in my 29. I have done more damage to that gun shooting 240s over a max load of 2400 than any other combo I have shot through this gun. You forget that I have had that gun for decades. The first time I locked this cylinder up was more than 20 years ago and it was getting a steady diet of 240s and 2400 -- no heavies involved.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
A lot of old wives tales. You can shoot a 29 forever with heavy loads as long as you lubricate. The problem with them is RECOIL from heavy boolits. Parts get battered and peened.
Stay at 265 gr max with boolits down to 240 and you will not harm the gun if you stay in pressure limits for the caliber.
The 29 is NOT a weak gun, some parts have too much inertia with heavy recoil is all. That comes from heavy boolits.
If you deform the frame or crane, it is YOUR fault. If you damage any parts, it is YOUR fault.

This can and has happened with nothing heavier than 240 grain loads.

I'd love to have one of those BFR 44 Mags if only it came with a longer tube. Oh well...

Landrum

quote:

Originally posted by Landrum:
I'd love to have one of those BFR 44 Mags if only it came with a longer tube. Oh well...

Landrum

What barrel length would you like? The Precision Center will put any barrel length on it that you would like.

I think the price on the barrels is only $150ish.