I'm primarily a rifle hunter, but like carrying a sixgun for small game, and the occasion to put it use for big game. If I can get my 357 blackhawk dialed in to shoot the way it should, I'm thinking of using it on blacktail deer next fall. I only shoot cast in revolvers, and while I have about 1/2 dozen molds, I've narrowed it down to two.

One is a special 160 gr mold a buddy had LBT make, it has an extra large meplat, as I recall equivalent to a 44 LFN, which would be .300" in dia, it is gas checked and I'd plan to drive it 1500 fps.

The other mold is also an LBT style, though made by ballisticast, and it drops a 200 gr WFN, which would be a .270" meplat, and it can be driven 1200+ fps.

I can make them either air cooled ww's, water quenched ww's, and am considering making some of the 200's with a pure lead nose, and water quenched base.

If you were to hunt blacktails with those bullet choices out of the 357, which would you pick?

The 160 if it will shoot. Your "problem" revolver may well prefer the heavier bullet, though.

Actually, I'd want a 0.290" meplat on a 180 gr. platform for a wheelgun with 4" or more barrel. As it is, I shoot a 160 gr. in a 2 5/8" barrel, just because I don't want to deal with the added recoil of a heavier bullet.

My problem revolver has a constriction where the barrel threads into the frame. I have a reamer that I'll use to put a taylor throat in it. So far, it does seem to prefer the heavier bullets.

Funny, as I've been leaning towards the 200 gr with a pure lead nose

Paul, you have probably forgotten more about cast bullets than I will ever learn, but I am with you: shoot the 200-grain bullet, and pour it with a lead nose, as you suggested. Energy is a function of mass, and the 200 will carry more retained energy, so long as it holds together...

Ross Seyfried wrote an article in Rifle magazine a couple of years ago about pouring "duplex" bullets. His observation was that they hit like the hammer of Thor, with almost perfect mushrooming and complete weight retention, IIRC...

And I don't think quenching the cast bullets will affect the pure lead at all, if that is what you mean by a water quenched base.

As you know, I don't like the .357 because of so many bullets that will not perform on deer.
But it sounds like you are on the right track for a boolit that will work just fine. The soft nose and hard base on a heavy boolit will give you the expansion without giving up penetration.
I have nothing against the caliber, just what folks choose for their hunting bullets.
I have the same problem with guys shooting those light, quick expanding bullets in the .44 and up even though there are some fine, tough, light bullets out there. I believe the heavier bullets and boolits give more consistant results. Picking the proper bullet for whatever caliber you choose is the key to success but most bullets for the smaller calibers are made for personal protection and not for deer.
You are being wise!

I use a 180 JHP when I hunt whitetail with the 357 magnum, but that 160 sounds pretty interesting; just get close and be picky about your shots. Good hunting!

I'm far from an Expert but the 160 gr would be my choice. The LBT designs seem to work very well. I just bought some .410" 240 gr for my .41 mag.

FN in MT

Paul H,
The .357 mag is one of my mostest favoritest Contender barrels. Accurate, has plenty of punch, and it is very easy on the shooter. I hunt with a load very similar to the 160gr load you describe. I use a Lyman 358156 SWC, which weighs about 168gr, checked & lubed. My 10" bbl puts it out at just over 1500fps. I can't imagine that 5% bullet weight would make any difference.
I use this load on our smallish (100#) Texas whitetails, and not-so-small hogs. Ranges are generally out to 100 yards, though I have stretched that a couple of times; scope sight, of course. Bullets are straight wheelweight, air cooled. I haven't found any need for building any type of specialty-cast bullets.
I have yet to recover a bullet. Most shots are straight broadside, but I have taken a few slightly quartering shots through one shoulder. In all cases the animals were well-hit, through the heart-lung area. Most everything collapses within sight or is DRT. One 250# hog was double-lunged, and managed to travel about 80-100yds. Blood trail was easy to follow in that instance.
All up, I have had excellent experiences with the .357 mag as a meat getter. Limit your range to your shot-placement abilities, and put 'em where they'll do some good. you shouldn't have any surprises. Good Luck!.............Bug.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
My problem revolver has a constriction where the barrel threads into the frame. I have a reamer that I'll use to put a taylor throat in it. So far, it does seem to prefer the heavier bullets.

Funny, as I've been leaning towards the 200 gr with a pure lead nose

Paul, for the uninformed what is a Taylor throater?

Paul

First question is how well does the 200 grainer shoot? I like the weight of that slug. Good peneratration. Some .357 won't handle the heavier bullets as well. I know that in the LBT casting book Veral spoke about the 160 grain, because it meplat was equal to a Keith 44. The soft nose bullets will act like a Nosler partition, but will limit peneratration. The 200 grainer would be my first choice.

Hcliff

Sorry, Taylor throating is similar to a freebore in a rifle chamber. Forward of the forcing cone in the barrel, an approximately bullet dia length and bullet dia throat is cut, basically just removing the rifling and most importantly in my case, removing the constriction where the barrel threads into the frame.

I'm pretty sure once I get rid of the contsriction, the gun will be a shooter. We'll see when the range opens up next year.

Thanks for the various comments, and I'll see which bullets shoots best, and likely bring both hunting, unless one clearly shoots better than the other.

I agree that the 357 isn't the best choice as a deer caliber, but with good bullets in limited uses, I believe it's a credible choice. Anything outside that realm will be taken with a rifle.

Keep us updated on the Taylor throat. It the taylor reamer instructions a easy to use like recutting a forcing cone? Is this a new gun for you Paul or does it have a history to see well the Taylor improves the groups?

HCliff

I had a 44 mag blackhawk that didn't shoot that great, so I cut a tayler throat in it, and it started shooting quite well. I can't say that the taylor throat was all the cause of accuracy improvement on that gun, as I'd developed a flinch.

The 357 is an old model 3 screw 4 5/8" that I bought used, tried my darndest to get to group, it wouldn't, traded it away, missed the click, click, click and the way it fealt in my hand, so ended up getting it back. Then once again I tried 1/2 dozen bullets and powders and was onc again treated to 5" 25 yd groups, while my 480 will print 2" 50 yd groups w/ irons and 1" w/ scope.

So, I tried lapping the barrel and found the notorious constriction where the barrel threads into the frame. I ordered up a .358" chucking reamer from MSC, as well as a .250" drill bushing. My plan is bush the cylinder to get rid of the .004" of end shake, lap the front of the frame to get even bearing where the front of the cylinder to have a perpendicular surface to bear on, set the barrel back for .0015" barrel gap, and cut the taylor throat.

If it still doesn't shoot after all that, it's either a new barrel, or the gun goes away never to return. I'm thinking the taylor throat should cure the grouping, and tightening up the rest of the gun should just overall improve it.

If the constriction is caused by torquing the barrel into the frame, I assume the Taylor throater cuts enough oversize to compensate? Reason I ask is because I think my 500 Linebaugh would really benefit from this. I just need to find someone who can do a .510 bore. Any suggestions?

I think the constriction can be a permanent deformation, as my barrel has the contsriction when removed from the frame. I did go with a .358" reamer so that if the barrel constricts when tightened up, it shouldn't be less than bore dia.

I'd try Alpha Precision.

Thanks for the lead.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
...like carrying a sixgun for small game...

Check the local dealers and gunshows for a .32 caliber Colt Police Positive revolver. Small & light for carry, better than a .22 for small game and pests.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
If you were to hunt blacktails with those bullet choices out of the 357, which would you pick?

I would go with the faster gas checked 160gr bullets.

As to restriced forcing cone areas in revolvers, I wonder if this is due to turning the threaded portion of the barrel into a maybe undersized threaded portion of the frame, over tighting or does sometimes the restriction occur during the threading of the barrel...

Bob

Paul, I water drop my WW 44's then heat the nose up to soften the point. This makes it one bullet and never have to worry about it.

Thanks for the additional feedback. I haven't had problems with gas checked air cooled ww bullets leading even when driven to higher speeds, so am too lazy to water quench and anneal. I can see the pure lead or nearly pure lead nose with harder bullet base being a very appealing design and worth the effort.

As far as the barrels swelling just forward of the throat, I think it comes down to Ruger assembling their revolvers in years past by cranking the he** out of them, and the metal moving into the path of least resistance, ie the bore.

Well,I,m sure if your only using cast bullets in your pistol that you clean it alot? I would rather use jacket bullets for deer ect. but if you are settled down in using cast bullets i would use the 158 grain keith style bullet,and make hoolow points out of them.Of coarse thts just me. I have used them with great success. van

I have hangun hunted for many years and started with a 357. Personally if that is what you want to use I would go with the heaviest bullet it will shoot accurately. I no longer use a 357 and feel that the 41mag is about the minimum I would use now. Having said that I have shot deer with a 357 but now use .44 and .454 exclusively. Most of my deer hunting now is bigger bodied MN whitetails. When using the 357 I was hunting in the south where the deer were smaller.

Okay, one more "long time ago" story...

About 15 years ago, my father and I were in the Hill Country, and he had his DW with him. It was a .357, and he had somehow found a 16" barrel for it. Kind of made it into a Contender revolver...

At any rate, he came into camp one evening with a nice 7-pt. He had shot it at ~60 yards with one of my hard cast 158-grain handloads. Dad was in a 10' tripod, and the buck was under a feeder. When he looked up, Dad shot him in the throat, right in the white patch.

I don't remember the load, but I still have the bullet somewhere. The trajectory was down, and the bullet went in the throat and out the back of the neck, back in just to the outside of the left side "strap, cutting off almost the whole left side of the ribs. We found the bullet in the left rear ham. It had a really flat nose and a gash across the meplat, (from cutting all the rib bones, I suspect...) and the rifling marks of course, but was otherwise in exceptionally good shape. Dad said the buck literally dropped in his tracks.

Having seen that, maybe a really accurate load with a 158 or 150 with good velocity is plenty, Paul...

if it was me id stretch the case and call it 357MAX!
fog

180 cast cores. Federal make them in factory loads I believe. Accurate and will penetrate very well..

quote:

Originally posted by van:
Well,I,m sure if your only using cast bullets in your pistol that you clean it alot? I would rather use jacket bullets for deer ect. but if you are settled down in using cast bullets i would use the 158 grain keith style bullet,and make hoolow points out of them.Of coarse thts just me. I have used them with great success. van

Actually I find properly cast and loaded bullets require very little cleaning in handguns and rifles.

If the cast bullets fit the bore, you can use even very soft alloys with little or no leading. The biggest problem is that most commercial bullet molds throw slugs that are just too small. THEN you get a lot of leading. Slug your bore and load a cast bullet .002" larger than groove diameter. With the .357mag, heavy soft bullets, flat meplats, no hollow points, and ranges less than 50yds. I would only use it now if I had no other choice, though I have hunted with it. I like bigger holes with a handgun, then expansion is not an issue. Jacketed bullets won't necessarily perform any better, especially light hollow points that have a tendency to open too rapidly and not penetrate, resulting in a lot of wounded deer and very disgruntled hunters.

Paul you can drop the cast wheel weight bullets directly into a 5 gallon bucket of water and they will be perfectly quenched I learned this trick from Veral Smith in the late 80's.Back in the 70' I shot a 357 quite a bit and used 160 grain with good results to take hogs quite reliabley up to about 250 pounds give or take.I now do not own a hand gun that small The bigger bores just hit so much harder as you already know.I believe the hard cast flat point bullets are the very best choice for hunting good luck.

Either of those boolits are adequate for what you want to do. The flat meplats will do the trick for you. Which one is the more accurate in your revolver? If there is not much difference, go with the heavier choice and keep the shots to 75yds or less. If the boolits are properly sized (.002 over groove diameter) the softer alloy will likely perform at those velocities without leading and give you the better expansion necessary with the .357. If your diameter is undersized, then you may need the harder alloy to lessen leading, but your accuracy (or potential accuracy) will suffer with the smaller diameter.