In my quest for a good 50AE revolver, I think I have settled upon the conversions done by Phillips & Rogers, who among other things, do conversions on Ruger Super Blackhawks & Bisleys to 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 50AE, 500 Linebaugh, and I have been thinking of having this done (50AE for me), but I'd like to know how they compare to others. Anyone shoot a Phillips & Rogers Ruger Conversion?

I have one in 5 shot 45 colt on a Bisley Vaquero. It's a nice gun for the money (got mine in trade)...but they have raised prices now. I know someone who had one in 50 AE from them but I never saw it and they upgraded to 500 Linebaugh (and not from P&R either). For the money spent I would prefer to go with Dave Clements...he's the one I like unless you want to spend more and go with Linebaugh...unless you want to spend more and then go with Bowen.

Email if you want anymore info as I am not able to check the website much lately.

If you want to have a less expensive 5-shot conversion then I would let Gary Reeder build you one. It is only about two hundred dollars more than the P&R conversion and it is well worth it. Gary built me two big bore revolvers last year so I know about his work. His work is certainly not the best but is very good for the money. Good luck. Cheers! Ming

Ming that is a thing of beauty. What don't you think is wrong or could be better? I thought that Gary put out a great product? What does Dave or John do that is better? thanks I am thinking of the 45 long colt hunter 5 shot from him. Let me know thanks.

Brian

Brian,

There is nothing wrong with Gary's guns. I am just being extremely picky. However, he does not do line-bored chambering like Clements and Bowen but his guns shoot very accurately so I cannot complain too much. Gary was a very cool guy to do business with and I do not hestitate to have him do a couple more projects for me in the future. Cheers! Ming

Ming One more question If you don't mind? I am very accurate conscience. I love my DanWesson. I can get 2" at fifty with 44 mags not even 445 supermag ammo which can do that at 100 yards. Is this the kind of accuracy I can expect from Gary or not. I once read and article about John's guns and tested some loads at fifty yards and got like 2.5 inches at 50 yards and said not to expect this kind of accuracy from every guy that I make. Well that is NOT good accuracy to me. If it can do that at 100 yards then I am impressed but NOT 50 yards. That is why I will never get John's guns because of that article. But just wondering what you can do with Gary's guns.

thanks
brian

I ordered,and subsequently returned,a gun purchased from Gary Reeder. It was a .44 ultra mag (?) in .440 Corbon. He admitted that the gun jammed, and still sent it to me. He did give back all my money, but it was a hassle. The cosmetics of the gun were very good. The trigger was way too creepy. He does not line bore as standard, and his cylinders are made by Philips and Rogers. I have guns built by John Linebaugh, and David Clements. I would choose David Clements. He does great work, and his prices are fare. In addition I like working with one man shops. Even Bowen has about 10 people working for him. But if you don't want to spend the money on a custom smith, then buy Freedom Arms.

The Phillips & Rogers guns are NO LONGER worth the money. I had a 50AE done when it was $650 It was worth it. Now they're almost a grand. Not worth it. Wait a bit longer, save some more money and get it done by someone esle. I have a Clements 500L and love it. The P&R gun doesn't even come close to compairing.

Gary Reeder aslo uses smaller diameter cylinders than Bowne, Linebaugh, Clements and he likes..
P&R uses them too... I believe Reeder may get his cylinders from P&R.

J

I have to agree with cas and Dodgy Doug about Dave Clements's work. He would be my top choice for building another big bore revolver. I also like the work from Bowen but he is very expensive.

Brian,

Getting a 2.5 in group at 50 yards is very good accuracy in my book. It is kind of subjective when it comes to measuring the accuracy of a gun. As long as a human hand is involved, there is always a percentage of error present, whether you shoot it off hand or off the bench. However, I would say that my Gary's built guns should be capable of putting a 5-shot group inside a 2 in circle at 25 yards. Cheers! Ming

Ming, wow 2 inches at 25, I think I will look elsewhere. thanks for the info.

Brian

Thank you to all who have responded to my questions. Many good answers, and it is nice to live some of these experiences vicariously through others!

As this is intended to me mostly a working gun, what are the relative differences in performance you all have experienced between a P&R gun as opposed to a Reeder, Clements, etc gun?

Finish and cosmetics are a distant second place for this particular project

hey brain how about some shooting lessons or tips anytime I can get a 2" group at 50 yards with an open sighted revolver I want to take it home and frame it. Consistant 2" groups at 100yards with a revolver even scoped is ammazing and with open sights its almost worth hopping on a plane and comming to watch. I have a buddy that has shot more big guns then any 6 people I know and he gets extremely excited when he gets a 2" 100 yard group with one of his .475s or .500s

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Originally posted by 445 supermag:
Ming One more question If you don't mind? I am very accurate conscience. I love my DanWesson. I can get 2" at fifty with 44 mags not even 445 supermag ammo which can do that at 100 yards. Is this the kind of accuracy I can expect from Gary or not. I once read and article about John's guns and tested some loads at fifty yards and got like 2.5 inches at 50 yards and said not to expect this kind of accuracy from every guy that I make. Well that is NOT good accuracy to me. If it can do that at 100 yards then I am impressed but NOT 50 yards. That is why I will never get John's guns because of that article. But just wondering what you can do with Gary's guns.

thanks
brian

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My P&R 500Ae was a Blackhawk with a stainless small diameter 5 shot cylinder and .501 barrel added. Another pawl is added to make the new cylinder work. That's it. Besides removing the Ruger name and adding theirs.. adding all sorts of headaches for me with my pistol licensing office.

The Clements gun has the cylinder window opened to accept the oversized , linebored cylinder. He does action blocking to tighten and accurize the gun (and make it hold up). Does a complete action job, trigger bushing etc. and reshapes the grip frame/grips to help handle recoil. The gun is TIGHT! Solid as a rock. Action is super smoother but tight as can be. Not a "slick and sloppy" action job. It's the most accurate revolver I own.

Just a statment to the small but effective changes he makes to the grip/frame. With the P&R gun and the stock grip/frame I would shoot 400gr bullets @1350fps. (heavy for the 50AE) They would beat me up badly. It just pounded the hell out of my middle finger s knuckle and made it NO FUN to shoot more than 3 rounds. After a shooting session my middle knuckle would hurt for a week plus.

With my Clements 500 I'm shooting 465gr bullets @1350pfs without so much as a slight bump to that same knuckle. It's a joy to shoot.

As I said.. when the P&R conversions were $650 it was a great way to get a workable gun. I was vvery happy with mine... other than the fact that it hurt to shoot. With the new prices what you get just isn't worth the money.

Well after trying 15 times to get in to edit my last post, I said screw it..... I forgot to mention the custom locking fitted base pin.

Can someone tell me what they mean by "blocking the action"? How do they do this? How does it help strengthen the action?

Also, I was under the impression of bullet-jump, with heavy loads, that a heavy crimp is needed. So, how does a 50 AE stop this, when it isn't crimped on the mouth? Thanks. ~~~Suluuq

LLoyd, I want to tell you save your time with lessons. I am not that good. My gun IS that good. I have a 445 supermag Dan Wesson 8 inch barrel topped with a 2x7 burris scope. IT is quite the package. Awesome accuracy. These guns were made for accuracy and shooting matches etc. Most Dan Wesson shooters that shoot the 445 supermag can get 2 inch groups at 100 with some handloads with not much problem. I can't shoot at 100 yards and get these kind of goups but if you put it in a ransome rest I know The gun Can. I am only good out to about 50 yards and can just now get about a 2 inch group at 50 and that took me a long time to achive and I only can do it on occasion not all the time. Just when I am having a good day. I wish that was everyday. but I am working on getting better so to match or come close to what my Dan Wesson 445 supermag can do.

LLoyd remember Dan Wesson is noted for accuracy that is why I took a chance with it. I have talked with tons of people who own them over the web and they were very happy with it. Most said they can get 2 inch group at 100 with good loads. Now this is what I consider accurate. NOT 2 inches at 25. But someday I will be able to get 2 inches at 100 yards because right now I am not even close to getting that. Fifty is where I am able to do my best shooting on good days not every day but on good ones. Dan Wesson rules.

Brian

Those heavy bullets at those speeds were a pain in the @ss in 50AE and not worth the trouble. i had to use a special stake crimper and still had probmlems. I gave it up.
Below 1200fps or with lighter bullets I had no real problems with bullet pull.

Action blocking can be done a number of ways. One most common is to fit a precision fit block of metal inside the frame, between the bolt and the frame wall. That way the bolt drops (raises) true every time, precise, and is held firm in place. The cylinder can't rotate when cocked. It keeps things tight.. and keeps them tight longer.
Most custom smiths won't talk about it too much... trade secrets.

CAS... thanks. ~~~Suluuq

I didn't have P&R build my .500 Linebaugh, but I bought their cylinder and hand ($225 and $12 at dealer cost, respectively). I haven't blown up the cylinder (or my hand), so I guess I have no complaints about P&R components, anyway.

Russ

I "had" a Reeder and could not wait to get rid of it. I lost my ass and will never have another. They look great but thats all..

Has anyone tried any of Jim Stroh's work? I understand he is very, very talented but have never had any work done by him. I believe his company is called Alpha Precision.

Ben H

445 supermag I should have read between the lines better I thought you were saying that you routinely shoot these kind of groups at these yardages with open sights I have a superblackhawk with a scope that will shoot consistant 2" gorups a 50 yards and a couple of my single actions will shoot 1" at 25 but with these 45 year old eyes 50 yards turns into 3-4 and 100 well lets just say I dont use an open sighted handgun to shoot at living game at that range. Im sure that if I strapped one of my guns in a ransom rest it would probably shoot alot better then I do. My idea of benching a handgun is putting one bag on the bench and resting my shooting hand on it. I find it is about the only way to test loads and have them print where they do off hand. Im sure you DW gun is very accurate I had a .357 pistol pac about 20 years ago and it was very accurate. Probably should have hung on to it but .357s dont do anything for me. If im plinking i use the .38 special guns or the 32 mag. and if Im hunting I want something bigger.

Lloyd, I hope that some day to be able to shoot 2 inch group at 100. I know my gun is up to it but NOT me yet that is. But I am getting better. I am really enjoying handgun hunting more and more every day. I might not go back to rifles much anymore. Or only in certain circumstances. Good shooting!!!

Brian

it is a desease with me my girlfriend says Im obsessed with it. I am either loading casting or shooting probably 300 days out of the year. I have two gun cabinets full of nice rifles that havent been shot in years. My wrists and nuckles are constantly sore from shooting the big bores. I am sitting here at my girlfriends right now staring at over 2000 rounds of empties that I shoot this week. Sorry to cut this short but I have work to do!!

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Originally posted by 445 supermag:
Lloyd, I hope that some day to be able to shoot 2 inch group at 100. I know my gun is up to it but NOT me yet that is. But I am getting better. I am really enjoying handgun hunting more and more every day. I might not go back to rifles much anymore. Or only in certain circumstances. Good shooting!!!

Brian

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