I just purchased a new Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter in 44mag, scoped with 2x Burris, planning to use it for antelope and deer. I loaded up some 240grXTP's with W296 at maximum and 0.5gr under maximum and the best 6 shot group I can get is 5" at 100yds. I plan to mess around with other bullet/powder combinations, but would like to know what a reasonable accuracy expectation should be. I realize much depends on the shooter, and I'm not super experienced with big-bore hunting handguns, but my question is- What is a reasonable expectation for this revolver as far as out of box accuracy is concerned. I know with rifles the 1" group is a sort of standard, with 2-3" acceptable for many in a hunting rifle. What would you consider reasonable/average 100yd accuracy with this set-up?

pharmpoke, IN MY OPINION, there are way too many variables here. Each gun, regardless of type or caliber, has it's own "likes" and "dislikes". With the optimum load that your pistol "likes", you can expect the same accuracy that you would with possibly a slug shotgun - say one inch. But then the worm turns to your ability. Guys like bfrshooter can probably shoot a half inch group with a wallowed out Single Six where I would be pleased with a 3 inch group from a Ransom Rest. Bob Munden can hit an egg at 100 yards with open sights on a snub nose .38. I can usually hit a barn wall with one at that distance.

well spoken george. pharmpoke, you are right to start working on tailoring your load to the particular firearm. Each firearm is a law unto itself. 4" at 100 yards is the reasonable accuracy several people I know expect from their hunting revolvers.

4 to 5 inch is probably average. Id guess with that gun and scope and some good load development a trigger job and an experienced shooter you should be able to cut that in half.

pharmpoke, you need to do some serious load development to find the best combination of accuracy and power that you desire. I would suggest load development at 25 yards, then when you have found a good candidate, shoot it at 50 to verify, and then shoot it at 100 yards, if that is your standard. Shooting at 100 yards, even from a good pistol rest is not that easy. Doing this will also tell you what your maximum range is with that gun and that load.
Peter.

Pharmpoke, My most accurate load with the 240 XTP is 24 gr of 296 BUT, I use a Fed 150 primer.
When I use a mag primer my groups triple in size. Try that next. (No need for a mag primer unless it is really cold out.)
The next thing that opens groups is uneven neck tension on the bullets. ANY difference from one round to another causes fliers. I spent years trying to solve it and would sort by the pressure it took to seat a bullet. If I took a pile at low pressure I could shoot a tight group and a pile of tight ones also shot a tight group, however each group could be as much as 10" apart. Mix the whole batch and all I could expect was 10" groups.
I found that the Hornady dies make the most accurate loads and RCBS the worst. I can't speak for other dies but be aware they make or break accuracy.
My most accurate loads are made with a special set of BR dies I had made but it takes forever to load a box.
It sounds to me that you are shooting very well yourself and it is time to do more thinking about how you load and what you use to load with. The .44 and .45 are both very sensitive to changes in brass from one piece to another.
One thing you can try is to load 50 rounds, use a spotting scope to watch every POI and shoot one at a time. Sort the brass according to where the bullet hit the paper. Load and shoot each batch separate from then on.

By the way, stay away from 25 yd's. You will not learn anything about your loads. Go right to 50 yd's.

Thanks gang- that's the kind of information I was looking for. I know that every gun is unique, and my shooting ability will be a limiting factor, but was curious what an average SBH Hunter is capable of with the right combo. Next will be to try different primers. Keep the advice coming.

And you MAY want to consider stepping up to a 6x pistol scope for testing purposes. I've found that I can use a red-dot or 2x scope at 50 yards, but at 100 yards I can't see squat. 6x seems to be about the right power to do 100 yard accuracy testing...

THEN for hunting you could swap back to the 2x scope. Accuracy wouldn't change (because the load was the same), but you would get the benefits of a 2x scope.

Also, don't discount that 100 yards might just be too far for you to shoot a pistol. I can hold 1" groups from my GP100 at 50 yards with a Bushnell Holosight. I sure can't do that at 100...My answer is to keep my shots in the 25-75 yard range.

In the world of absolute accuracy, mark your cylinder chambers. You MIGHT have one or two chambers that are out of spec which could be throwing flyers. IF you see a target with 3-4 rounds clustered and two flyers, and you see a group like that consistently, chances are you have a bad chamber or two. It's not uncommon at all. IF you find that to be the case, then do your testing on the most accurate chambers...or order a replacement cylinder. S&W Ti-cylinders for a 629 were something like $129?

BTW, I got my best accuracy with Hornady XTP's and Cast Performance Gas Checked bullets with 2400 powder in my .357 GP100 6".

I have not had a problem with Ruger, BFR or S&W chambers being different.
But this is one of many, many tests for individual chambers on Freedom guns.

There is a reason to not lock the cylinder super tight. It needs the small amount of play side to side.

Now here are 5 shot groups from a BFR .475 using ALL chambers.

By the way, all of these are 50 yd groups, I do NOT shoot closer.

BFR, where did you find an FA with six chambers?

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
BFR, where did you find an FA with six chambers?

.357 magnum.......hence a six-shot.

But, let's not start this crap again, please......

That Freedom was a .357. Two years, every boolit, bullet made, hundreds of loads, three barrels and a new cylinder and that is the best it will do.

dont know ive got a fa 454 and a 475 that John built that have absolutely no play anywhere in them and they both will shoot into one hole and are the two most accurate guns i own. Now certainly problems exist with a gun thats locked up solid that isnt aligned but theres a reason that good gunsmiths lock everything down and line bore there guns. I kind of doubt they do it to insure the gun will never be a tack driver.

Just facts Marko, every now and then there is a lemon. My friend paid big bucks for a Lincoln and one by one every function on the dash shut down.
My cousin bought a brand new Thunderbird, got 1/2 mile from the dealer and felt a huge bump and the car stopped. He looked in the mirror and the transmission was in the road.
It happens!

I know, I know.......I just don't have the energy for this right now......

deja vu

quote:

Originally posted by wheelgunner:
deja vu

Deja vu all over again.......

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
I use a Fed 150 primer.
When I use a mag primer my groups triple in size. (No need for a mag primer unless it is really cold out.)

Not trying to Hijack this thread, but how cold is cold BFRshooter?
I too am finding that the magnum primers are opening my groups.
And is it OK to use a Non-magnum primer with H110 even if the load calls for it?
Of course I’ll start at a reduced load.
Vg

No need to reduce the load going to standard primers in the .44 and .45 Colt. There is less pressure and you can work up if needed for accuracy.
It has to be very cold out for the powder to act up. I have shot standard primers to 10* and less without a problem but if it were to drop way below zero and I was hunting, the mag primer MIGHT be a little better.
A small loss in accuracy means little on game when ignition is more important. It doesn't get that cold here so if you live in real cold climates, best test it for yourself. I find good neck tension makes the powder burn OK. Most that have squib loads do not use enough tension or the boolits are too soft and get sized during seating. I have been loading the .44 since 1956, both in Ohio and here in WV and have NEVER had a squib load at any time of year.
During the rest of the year in very cold climates, standard primers are more accurate. The problem with the mag primer is that the .44 and .45 cases are too small and the pressure will push the boolit out of the brass before the powder lights good. You do not want the primer itself to move a boolit first.
As brass gets larger, mag primers have more space for the pressure. The .454, .460, .475, 45-70, etc, are more accurate with a mag primer.
Some brass uses small rifle primers and the SR mag can also open groups.
The .475 and 45-70 has a LR pocket but you should NOT use them, use a LP mag primer only.
Revolvers are a special problem because of the space before contacting the rifling. You must keep the boolit in the brass until POWDER BURN pressure pushes out the boolit.
There are mag primers with a lot of heat but low pressure and they also work. I don't know which they are though.
If you want to see what happens, shoot a boolit using a magnum primer and no powder. See how far it is driven into the barrel.
A small change in case tension from one piece of brass to another changes how much a boolit will move from the primer. This makes the case capacity change from shot to shot.
Take a .45 with a tight neck, good results but shoot the next with a loose neck and the boolit moves out, giving you the case capacity of a .454 before the powder lights, what do you get?
Now you know why most shooters use standard primers and fast powders. They have not solved the slow powder problems and think because the book says mag primers must be used, that is what they must do.
The dies you use will ruin your accuracy very fast too.

Did I ever tell you guys about a new Ruger Mark II target pistol I bought long ago? I put up a 25 yd target and shot 10 shots. Not a hole anywhere. I held the gun out, level with the target but watched sideways. The bullets were hitting the ground 10 FEET in front of me. I pulled down the gun and the crown was perfect, the bore was straight and centered. The barrel fit the frame perfect, sights were perfect. I could not find a thing wrong. It was a mystery why bullets came out at a 45* angle.
I sent it to Ruger and they sent me a new, super accurate gun back. No explanation as to what was wrong. I don't think they knew.

Whitworth, don't get your panties in a wad... I was just ignorant, I guess. I was under the impression that everything that Freedom makes is a five shot. In fact, I was told by their marketing director in late 1997 that they built the prototype of all their revolvers with six chambers, test fired them, and then the production model was built with five chambers to allow for extra meat in the cylinder, thereby allowing higher pressures.

And their manual specifically states "your five shot revolver". I have never seen a six shot FA...

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Whitworth, don't get your panties in a wad... I was just ignorant, I guess. I was under the impression that everything that Freedom makes is a five shot. In fact, I was told by their marketing director in late 1997 that they built the prototype of all their revolvers with six chambers, test fired them, and then the production model was built with five chambers to allow for extra meat in the cylinder, thereby allowing higher pressures.

And their manual specifically states "your five shot revolver". I have never seen a six shot FA...

No panties in a wad as I don't wear panties...... I wasn't geting wound up, I just didn't feel like experiencing the FA battle again as we have done that enough! No worries, Doubless!

I have heard the rumor that JD's Adult Bookstore Bait and Tackle Shop is coming out with a line of chipmunk lined panties. Sounds tempting?

MS, where do you think Marko is selling his pelts?

Since I have managed to wipe out the chipmunk population, I am gong to sell them cat, er squirrel pelts next year.......

MOC, minute of chest

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Thank you BFRShooter, that’s good information for me to copy, paste & save.