Good Day all,
I have had my FA mod 83 for over ten years now. It is 454 and a custom gun. I have noticed a growing sensitivity to recoil. Or should I say to the pain after the fact. I experience aching in my wrists,elbows, and shoulders on the following 2-3 days.
Aesthetically porting looks better, but would a brake work better? I have been told many opinions by folks who have neither brakes nor ports---can't rely on them. So, I would like to know from those who have the modifications. Which do you feel works better at reducing muzzle flip and or controlling recoil? Also does one increase noise more than the other?
A friend pointed out I would ruin the collector value of my "fancy" gun. I have no intention of ever selling this piece so "collector value" is of litte importance.

I would go with Magnaporting.Brakes are Fugly!!!!

Magnaporting. It is a series of four EDM cut ports on the front of your barrel. It keeps the barrel down about 30% or so during recoil. It doesn't mitigate recoil, it just takes some of it away. Despite the bullshit about porting, Magnaporting DOESN'T increase noise levels like brakes or some of the other barrel ports do.

To me any porting or break does not reduce recoil, but more muzzle flip is controlled. I had some handguns with breaks and compensators, but anymore handguns I buy will always be un-ported or braked. I have a S&W 500 Mag with a 4 inch barrel, I had a end cap made for it, I did not like the muzzle flash and how loud it was. I have been shooting it that way (with end cap) for almost 2 years now, and I don't notice any more felt recoil then when it was compensated.

My suggestion is, if you go to the range use reduced loads for practice and load up for hunting. Forget the muzzle break or porting, unless you really want it.

Have S&W XVR w/brake and a SRH 454 & FA83 both w/magna ports.

My take is that the ports helps w/rapid verticle movement whereas the brake help make a large powerful gun/heavy loads more anageable. Neither is the complete ans to recoil management but as part of a system of properly fitting grips, loads, wgt and if necessary shooting gloves (good set of muffs goes w/o mention?). Practice w/less than top loads helps build tolerance and confidence to shoot effectively the hairy-chested loads.

My first shot w/the FA 83 wearing pachmyer rubbers sheared layers of skin in the devils pit which watered up and took forever to heal. However the magna port held it down. If I had've used a glove, it wouldn't had happened. W/o the glove, the checkered rubber clung to the hand as the revolver came back quickly.

I've found money spend on good hearing protection is money well spent ~ there, I mentioned it.

I've only shot one breaked sa, it was a linebaugh built 475 on a bisley, and I've shot some mnp't FA 83's. From my perspective, the braked 475 removed all the muzzle flip, but the still came back pretty hard. The mnp'd 454's had reduced muzzleflip, but overall recoil wasn't really less than an unported 454.

A muzzle break should be more effective on a 454 due to the higher pressure it opperates at, and the larger powder charges.

With all that said, the best way to reduced recoil on a big bore revolver is to just load lighter bullets and light powder charges. A good 240-250 gr cast bullet over something in the range of 10 gr of unigue for a nominal 1000 fps will produce gilt edged accuracy, and a recoil level you can shoot all day long.

I failed to mention the XVR w/brake has a severe concussion altho it seems to work well.

SInce I hunt exclusively with heavy hitting handguns I can say.
1. Magna-porting is worthless for your pain problem.
2. Rifle style brakes do not always work for heavy hitting handguns.
3. Ron Bartlett's Vais brake allows me to shoot a 350 grain bullet from a .416 Taylor very pleasantly without back blast.
Hammer

As others have pointed out, by far the easiest answer to your problem is to slow down muzzle velocity and lower bullet wt.

I've got one FA in .44 mag that is braked, a magnaport brake at that, and a couple of others that are females (magnaported). A brake is probably going to help more than magnaporting for recoil but in my experience they don't have the amount of recoil reduction on pistols that they do in rifles and they are considerably louder. I like brakes but I'd try gloves and slower smaller bullets for practice first.

Not trying to start a pissing match,but I have found shooting heavier lead bullets to have more of a big push.When shooting lighter jacketed bullets it seems to snap the barrel up violently.I am not talking about mild loads with the light bullets either.Kind of defeats the purpose of a magnum!!!!!

To each his own but my idea of the reason for having a magnum anything is to use its extra power and range WHEN needed. In pistols, I think its just plain ignorant to beat yourself and the pistol up when you're just plinking around. How dead does a tin can or a target have to be?

If it makes someone feel better about themselves, by all means go for it. I'll load down myself.

My problem with loading down is resighting the weapon in. I don't like to do it. When I get a weapon (pistol or rifle) sighted in to where I want it, I don't like to mess with it once the optimal load has been developed. Then I just try to master it with that load. But, that's just me. If I want to shoot something that recoils less, I just step down to one of my .44 magnums.

think about it from this angle,larry kelly the inventer of magnaport ,even conceeded and had someone make him his Magna-brake.

454's kick and are painfull, ive shot them, have someone make you a brake like the ''Answer product brake with all them small holes''.

i put a holland quick discharge brake on my savage super-stricker in 308!.killed the muzzle jump rite there but it increased the noise probaly 20-25 percent. great hearing protection is a must. handguns and pistols are loud to begine WITH...any one that doesn''t protect their hearing will loose it!!!

every things a compromise, regards

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
I have had my FA mod 83 for over ten years now. It is 454 and a custom gun. I have noticed a growing sensitivity to recoil. Or should I say to the pain after the fact. I experience aching in my wrists,elbows, and shoulders on the following 2-3 days.

Except when you need 454 performance (a shot or two a season, right?) why not just back the throttle off to 44 magnum or even 45 Colt levels of performance? You'll save on powder, bullets, and ibuprofen even before you don't spend a couple hundred bucks cutting on your pistol...

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
My problem with loading down is resighting the weapon in. I don't like to do it. When I get a weapon (pistol or rifle) sighted in to where I want it, I don't like to mess with it once the optimal load has been developed. Then I just try to master it with that load. But, that's just me. If I want to shoot something that recoils less, I just step down to one of my .44 magnums.

I guess I've sighted in so many that doing it again is second nature to me and is just more shooting, which I normally enjoy (but not necessarily with really HEAVY loads, which is one reason I don't normally shoot maxed our loads, after all when they'll shoot through a 200 pound pig, what more do I need around here? No big bears in NE Tex.). If I've got "the" load, it usually only takes me 3 or 4 shots to get back "on",especially if I paid attention to the clicks or MOAs when you "downsighted", and then you can practice with a cylinder or two to confirm. Easiest solution is to have two identical pistols.

Drew...I had a 6" Premier in .454 for a African hunt in 2001 and sold it just for the reasons you are discribing...I knew that if I kept the gun it would eventually end all the shooting of all the Magnum handguns that I enjoy shooting now that have never caused any pain.

As to "downloading"...the loads were the 240 grain Hornady and 260 grain Speer at 1650...far from the almost 2000 fps that could be attainded with a slower burning powder and nothing like the recoil of 300+ grain bullets. And I bought the .454 to SHOOT .454s...

So when I found the identical gun in .41 Magnum that also had been Mag-Na-Ported I sold off the .454 and bought the .41.

That FA .41 was the first Mag-Na-Ported revolver I have ever had...and it is great. Since then I have also bought a S&W M58 and 3" 60-10 .357 Magnum that have been Mag-Na-Ported as well as a Taurus Titanium Tracker with factory ports...they have all been great shooters.

I have had two guns with brakes.. The first was a TC 14" .223 barrel...way too loud and one could feel the back blast. The second is a S&W 500 4". Very little recoil but the fireball that comes out of the break has to experienced to be appreciated...

For the .454...I would go Mag-Na-Port.

Also, a few years ago I was writing with John Tiffan the gun writer... He was telling me how shooting all these heavy recoiling guns has really damaged him physically over the years to the point that he has to "wrap up" just to shoot most ANY gun with recoil now... No thanks..I'll stay with my .41s and .44s...

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by RJM: Also, a few years ago I was writing with John Tiffan the gun writer... He was telling me how shooting all these heavy recoiling guns has really damaged him physically over the years to the point that he has to "wrap up" just to shoot most ANY gun with recoil now... No thanks..I'll stay with my .41s and .44s...


Bob

Yes, John Taffin doesn't like to shoot full-house loads any more because of the sustained beating he has taken shooting so many big bores over an extended period of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
To each his own but my idea of the reason for having a magnum anything is to use its extra power and range WHEN needed. In pistols, I think its just plain ignorant to beat yourself and the pistol up when you're just plinking around. How dead does a tin can or a target have to be?

If it makes someone feel better about themselves, by all means go for it. I'll load down myself.

The guns were designed to use heavy loads, they are magnum handguns. I practice with what I use for hunting. If I want to plink, I will get a smaller gun to shoot targets and soda cans.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
The guns were designed to use heavy loads, they are magnum handguns. I practice with what I use for hunting. If I want to plink, I will get a smaller gun to shoot targets and soda cans.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. I believe in practicing with the load I am going to hunt with.

quote:

Also, a few years ago I was writing with John Tiffan the gun writer... He was telling me how shooting all these heavy recoiling guns has really damaged him physically over the years

It happens to some, but I'm not sure wether it makes a difference wether you shoot a lot of .357, a bunch of of .44 or as many .454's.

If your ligaments are predisposed to faile under this hardship, you shoold have limited yourself to .22lfb and .223Rem from the beginning. But normally, we don't know or feel that!

So shoot as if it were your last shooting day!

I know a gentleman who has a damaged hand and wrist from heavy recoiling handguns, but he shot at a level and volume that would be very hard to duplicate. I presume that John Taffin also shoots an inordinate amount compared to us mear mortals!

when it comes to recoil, perception IS reality.

As a past owner of a magnaported revolver, a
Ruger Police Service six 357Mag (basically a security six with fixed sights) I can say that other than firing it under the
bench shelters at a few different ranges (particularly the
ones at the Ft.Dix Rod&Gun club) the reflected noise is pretty unpleasant.

However without a roof overhead you simply don't notice the difference in noise.

the difference in perceived recoil however is there...
Compared to firing the same exact loads in my DanWesson
The Lighter Ruger felt like shooting a "warm" (just barely "+P") 38special load.

this was because of the reduction in muzzle flip

If the barrel stays down you just don't FEEL the recoil the
same way.
firing a revolver with a REAL muzzle break doesn't have the same effect, there might be a reduction in recoil but there is a HUGE increase in noise and the muzzle flip is still there.

Frankly if given a choice between reducing "recoil" and reducing "Muzzle flip" I'll live with the recoil to reduce the flip.

Thus I heartily recommend a MagnaPort.

AD

I haven't hunted with my scandium .41 mag yet but my wrist injury has healed enough for me to sight it in and shoot a couple of boxes. I used some 210 gr. solid lead bullets a buddy gave me. After sighting it in and practicing a while I took a break and then shot one more group of six off a sand bag. At 50 feet the first two were within 1/2" but the over all size of the group was about 6". Yeah, I started to flinch after two shots...worse and worse. But, how ofter would I ever need more than two well-aimed shots? I think practicing with light loads makes good sense. In fact I think I'll practice with a .22lr pistol that weighs the same. Like I do with my rifles. Then shoot a few 175 gr. hunting loads and call it ready.

A muzzle brake on a 454 shooting the lighter wieght bullets will indeed reduce the recoil. The brake will not (in my exoerience) have any noticeable effect on felt recoil with the heavy bullets at full power. The magna port in my experience only reduces muzzles rise...

Lets face it, nobody is the same or is built the same. Some think a .357 is bad while others enjoy the .475 and .500. I shoot thousands of heavy .475 loads while someone else will put the gun down after one shot and never shoot it again.
If your body can't handle the recoil, sell the gun to one of us that just loves to shoot them! Make it cheap!

WOW!! I thought this thread was dead already. The biggest thing I am trying to cut back on is probably the muzzle flip. I have had the barrel touch the rim of my hat when shooting. Friends have told me it comes within inches of my face. They are impressed with the groups-as am I-but we all question the muzzle flip. I can live with the recoil, it is really not that severe. The muzzle jump has got to go. I am imagining the groups I could shoot without worrying about the front site becoming embedded in my forehead.
The first time I shot it, I thought gee what a cat. I put the sa down on the table expecting it to magically come flying off the table and smote me in the head. I had read and been warned about severe recoil(same way with my first model 600 Remy in .350 mag). It never bothered me then. As far as the model 600--try shooting a 30-06 with an 18" barrel of similar weight.
I believe I am going to MAG-NA-Port my model 83. Thank you for all the real world experience. If I could just get a quicker twist barrel from Freedom I'd shoot 400grainers. I have heard this twist will not stabilize over 360.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
If your body can't handle the recoil, sell the gun to one of us that just loves to shoot them! Make it cheap!

The gun is not for sale. Especially not to you BFRshooter due to all the complaints you have had about Freedom Arms "safety" in other threads.

I carry 5 rounds in mine with the hammer on half-cock. This is a perfect safety if you really understand single actions and how they are made to function. I have even accidently dropped it like this and it did not fire.
...................................Andy

What's wrong with the 360 grainers?

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
What's wrong with the 360 grainers?

Nothing at all!! I've never recovered one!! They punch BIG holes all the way through. Even a feral hog weighing over 600lbs. Went through behind his shoulders and killed a 90lb "piglet" on the other side. 12 yds from me to 1st pig---it was exciting. I shoot almost exclusively cast bullets. I like to plink with CorBon 240gr JHPs @1400 fps. I wish PMC would start making ammo for other than military application, like they used to. They had a 300gr 45Colt load @1250. Also a 270gr Barnes XLC .375H&H load @2800fps. I liked both ALOT. They no longer make them.

...............................Andy

What's the twist rate of the FA .454? My SRH in .454 is not supposed to stabilize 400 grain bullets either, but keep that a secret as no one told my Ruger and I don't want him to find out! It actually shoots the 360s more accurately than the 400s, but the 400s sure do punch through pigs!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Whitworth:
What's the twist rate of the FA .454?

I believe the FA has a 1 in 24. I am thinking I would like a 1 in 18. I may just keep using 320-360gr as they have never failed to punch a hole clean through whatever critter I sent them into. I recently purchased a Browning model 1885, also in .454, hoping to get a fast twist for heavier bullets. No such luck. It too has 1 in 24. HOWEVER, I can't wait to chrony factory loads and some of mine. I am suprised How much recoil it has. Not horrendous, just suprising
Andy

Redhawk1 would you tell me more about that end cap you had made to reduce noise.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
Redhawk1 would you tell me more about that end cap you had made to reduce noise.

Doen't S&W make that available now?

quote:

Originally posted by odoh:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
Redhawk1 would you tell me more about that end cap you had made to reduce noise.

Doen't S&W make that available now?

S&W makes the end cap for the S&W 460 mag only. I bought the 460 end cap and had it modified.
MikeN,
Send me an e-mail and I will give you photos and directions for the end cap.

Here is the link to S&W to order the 460 end cap that is needed to make the modification with.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/P...y_rn=34301&training=

Redhawk, do I have a photo of your .460 Smith?? If I do, I'll post up a photo.

Whitworth, the end cap he is talking about is for the 500 Mag, but it is a S&W 460 Mag end cap customized.
I can send you a e-mail with the directions along with the pictures to go with them.

I don't think you have a picture of my 460 either.

E-mail me the photo(s) and I'll post them.

PM me your e-mail address.

Redhawk, I just sent you a PM........

I am posting these photos and an explanation on Redhawk1's behalf. I think you will all agree that it's pretty slick!!

Text:

This is how it was done:

Face the back of the compensator off .02 with a lathe. Maintain the shoulder outside step at .04 and the over all length of .905 long.

Bore the inside first shoulder step back .02. The inside diameter is .805 so don’t over cut this dimension as it aligns up on the front of the barrel.

Then bore the hole thru at least to .531 so that big slug can find it’s way out. I made mine a little bigger at .550 inch.

It locks up snug in my revolver and it looks factory but it’s not!