Just happened out to Wideners and noticed they have 8# jugs of Surplus 5010 and Surplus 860 On-Sale for $25 a jug. It also mentioned you could get 6 of those 8# jugs shipped on 1-HAZMET Fee.

They say it is for use in the 50BMG. Anybody know if it is useful in anything else we might be using?

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

They say it is for use in the 50BMG. Anybody know if it is useful in anything else we might be using?

Yes!(5010) In large capaity cases for caliber and heavy bullets, you can get desent velocity from it and never worry about overloading. When I was doing the duplex load testing I also used it and 5020. BAD SCENE. DON'T GO THERE! Thunderbird in Arizona put out some data which I will share X E- Mail if you have an interest.

I used it in my 6mmx270 IMP., 25-06 IMP., 7mm Rem Mag. 8mmx404x2.5"IMP., .358x.404 IMP. and others. roger

Maybe a .30-378 Weatherby.

Hey Ireload2, I don't have a 30-378Wby, but at that price for the Powder, it might be worth getting.

Hey Roger, When I was looking at the Powder listing, I thought I remembered your having posted some Test Data with one of them, but I wasn't sure. And yes indeed, if it isn't a problem for you, I'd appreciate the Load Data info.

By the way, for the general information of the Board, when you use this Powder, do you find it burns "dirty"? I used to use an obscene amount of H870 when it was very cheap and since it was/is such a Slow Powder, it tended to burn very dirty in the cartridges I was using it in. Probably exacerbated by using Bullets on the Light side of those cartridges too.

The H870 also left a very tenacious residue which Bruce Hodgdon said to remove with good old "Bon Ami" cleanser made into a paste with your favorite Bore Cleaner. I made some and it sure did cut through that residue.

Works great in a 30/378. VERY accurate. If you buy 6 jugs, somewhere in there you will buy a new barrel before you use them up.

5010 works pretty good in 300WBY, My loads are somewhat slow but accuracy has been outstanding and so was the price. Great powder for punching holes in paper with a belted magnum without busting the ol wallet.

Hey 30378 and Krochus, Thanks for the input. Looks more versitle than I first thought.
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Hey Roger, I got the email, but it will take maybe 3-days before I can open them to check them out. Thanks for sending the info.

Hot Core, I took advantage of the sale priced WC 860 as well and have used at least 24 lbs. of it in the past. I've also used 16 lbs. of IMR 5010. I don't remember them being dirty, which is not to say there wasn't a great deal of unburned powder left behind and/or expelled the bbl. However, I use these powders, usually with mag. primers in .30cal. cartridges (metrics too )with heavy cast bullets seated into the rifling. E.g., in the .30-06, I'll use 48gr. of either 860 or 5010 with a cast bullet bet. 175 - 195gr., which -> ~1,750fps. IMR 5010 burns more efficiently (lower ES & SD) if 0.3cc - 1.0cc of a grex-like filler is used. Bore clean-up is no more of a chore with these two than it is with other powders.

I've used wc860 with good results in my 25-06, with magnum primers and 117 hornady.

WC 860 is a ball powder, is 5010 a ball powder too?

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I've used wc860 with good results in my 25-06, with magnum primers and 117 hornady.

WC 860 is a ball powder, is 5010 a ball powder too?

NO roger

Hey Paul, Thanks for the excellent info. I used to shoot a LOT of Lead and have been looking at it recently. Might just be what I need to get me into it once again.

Hey bja, Thank you for that info. Should be a lot of 25-06 users on the Board.

Hey Roger, Are you going to a wedding or what in the new flick?

What is 5010 close to in the Quickload library?
870?

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
What is 5010 close to in the Quickload library?
870?

They are close but from experience I'd judge 5010 to be slower but cleaner. The H870 I use to use back in the 60s left a mica like ,hard to remove coating on the barrels. Haven't used any, now, for perhaps 37 years. Probably won't either. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Roger, Are you going to a wedding or what in the new flick?

No; just wanted to show you that I clean up pretty good.

My experience with 5010 is that it is very close to H870 and H570 in speed. However, it's "Lincoln Log" kernels are a bitch to measure and pour into smaller caliber cases like the .264 Winchester I used it in. I'm unawar of 5010 being produced in recent years and have to assume that this is pull-down powder that is a number of years old. Buyer beware.

WC860 is somewhat slower than 5010 and is well-adapted to 7mm STW, etc. It has potential in 7mm & .300 RUM and any other outsized case with heavy-for-caliber bullets. In the lots I have used, it is similar in burning rate to WC-872, but I've had better results with the WC-872. It is a "ball" powder and therefore meters flawlessly.

CAVEAT: Burning rates of surplus powders can vary significantly from lot to lot, so don't mess with these unless you're an experienced reloader with patience and a chronograph!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Just happened out to Wideners and noticed they have 8# jugs of Surplus 5010 and Surplus 860 On-Sale for $25 a jug. It also mentioned you could get 6 of those 8# jugs shipped on 1-HAZMET Fee.

They say it is for use in the 50BMG. Anybody know if it is useful in anything else we might be using?

Looks like it has a burning rate similar to AA8700 or H870-it might be good for cast bullet loads in the .416 Rigby - AA8700 is good for this application........

Jason, IMR 5010 is an extruded powder, but the individual particles are rather large compared to say IMR 3031 (dimension only, not burning rate!). If you purchase 5010, you may find it is too coarse to flow through your powder measure without bridging. One solution is to use something like the dippers that Lee Precision sells. Also, 10-13 individual particles of it weighed 1.0gr., which makes manual powder dribbling/trickling quite handy (pun intended).

Burning rate: With heavy cast bullets, I found I got the ~same accuracy & velocity in a variety of .30cal. rifles (excepting the 7.62 x 39mm & the 7.65 x 53mm) using between 46 & 49gr. of either WC 860 or IMR 5010 as long as I used a small amount of "grex" with 5010.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Roger, Are you going to a wedding or what in the new flick?

No; just wanted to show you that I clean up pretty good.

The whole world hates a gray haired electrical engineering consultant.
Who wants to work with an ugly old man that's smarter than you?
If Roger dresses like an authority figure to put the young-goth-emo-liberal-punks in their place, more power to him

I use WC-872 Ball Powder from Jeff Bartlett over at www.gibrass.com in my .338-378 Weatherby Accumark. He charges around $40.00 for an 8 pound jug, but will pick up the Haz-Mat fee if you order 6, (48 pounds). This stuff meters thru a measure like greased lightning and is very consistant. I can get 3,000 FPS with the 300 Gr. Sierra Matchking without excess pressure. Good powder. Bill T.

Ackley used a lot of 5010 in his load testing for his wildcats, according to the info in his books, that I have...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Ackley used a lot of 5010 in his load testing for his wildcats, according to the info in his books, that I have...

Hey Seafire, Thank you for that. Never crossed my mind to look in there.
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Hey Roger, I got the T-Bird Data you sent and got it printed out. Now it looks more appealing all the time, especially in the cartridges you sent the info on.

By the way, you REALLY need to have the flick of that Scout Rifle posted on this Board. Quite interesting the way you have it "personalized".

Did you come up with that "method" for attaching the Scope to the barrel? Brilliant! Sure beats Duck Tape!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Roger,
By the way, you REALLY need to have the flick of that Scout Rifle posted on this Board. Quite interesting the way you have it "personalized".

Did you come up with that "method" for attaching the Scope to the barrel? YESBrilliant! Sure beats Duck Tape!

Never posted pics on forum and don't know how ,although others have tried to teach me. Got lost some where in the doing. Did you ever walk into a room and wonder why you went their? roger

Anyone have any experience with either of these powders in a .375 H&H?

After talking to a couple of powder companies, i was told that this powder is made for the 50calBMg and its old powder. And NOT TO USE IT! this is what i was told,as i saw the same ad as you. van

quote:

Originally posted by van:
After talking to a couple of powder companies, i was told that this powder is made for the 50calBMg and its old powder. And NOT TO USE IT! this is what i was told,as i saw the same ad as you. van

Without more information I would disregard such a statement. Especially if it's coming from another manufacturer of the same type of product. The age of powder has little to do with it's condition. There is surplus 4831 Data Powder still around from the Second World War that is still perfectly fine for use. Improperly stored powder thats 1 year old can be in far worse condition than 40 year old powder which has been stored properly. Bill T.

With you not knowing on how it was stored,nor me would you buy it?? Thats why they had reservations of buying it for one reason. Weidners might still have some if you need it. Have fun reloading. van

quote:

Originally posted by van:
With you not knowing on how it was stored,nor me would you buy it?? Thats why they had reservations of buying it for one reason. Weidners might still have some if you need it. Have fun reloading. van

You can say that about any powder you buy from anyone. Your not making sense. Bill T.

quote:

Did you ever walk into a room and wonder why you went their? roger

You might have caught that through emails from me - I HATE IT when that happens.

Just yesterday I was two steps from the Note Pad where I write down things that need to be bought. Had an ad in my left hand for Mobil 1 and wanted to compare the price where I normally get it. You want to calculate the odds on it getting written down - here I'll help - 0%!

Made it to the entire other end of the house and got sat down when I noticed the ad still in my hand. Pitiful!

I load WC 860 in two 7MM Rem Mags: my BDL and my son's Ruger M77. 79 grains behind a Nosler 162 Solid Base lit off with a Federal 215 shoots one hole groups at 100 yards out of both rifles. I seat them to ~.010" off the lands, and have absolutely no pressure problems. It is just a good load, period.

quote:

Originally posted by van:
With you not knowing on how it was stored,nor me would you buy it?? Thats why they had reservations of buying it for one reason. Weidners might still have some if you need it. Have fun reloading. van

Maybe not to you,and sometimes all of us don,t make any sense,like having different guns doesn,t make any sense. Like having lets say a 338/378 one needs a lot of powder to burn up needlessly. but thats one choice.

quote:

Originally posted by van: Like having lets say a 338/378 one needs a lot of powder to burn up needlessly. but thats one choice.

How would that caliber "burn it up needlessly"?????? Bill T.

With a capacity of 30+grs of more powder than the 340WBY and only gaining around 10% more vel. than the 340WBY with the same grain bullet. The difference in preformance with a bullet that will bring down anything doesn,t seem much sense in taking all the extra recoil,and using more powder for what? Any animal that is killed won,t kknow that the bullet is a couple hundred fps faster or slower. I own a 340WBY and other as well. I am also use to big guns,in what they do and can,t do for being there head gunsmith for some time and working for other major companies. Just a little excess i think. But each to his own,and it reminds me what P.O. Ackley told a gunsmithing student a a dinner seminar i went to. The student was trying to impress P.O. and asked him what he thought about builiding a 458Win on a Rem rolling block, trying to impress him! Ackleys responce was that "It should kill any elephants you find in North America"

quote:

Originally posted by van:
With a capacity of 30+grs of more powder than the 340WBY and only gaining around 10% more vel. than the 340WBY with the same grain bullet. The difference in preformance with a bullet that will bring down anything doesn,t seem much sense in taking all the extra recoil,and using more powder for what?

So what? All overbore Magnums function this way. Power in a rifle cartridge to increase performance is no different than horsepower in an automobile to do the same thing. It takes far more horsepower, and fuel, to push a car from 190 MPH to 200 MPH than it does from 90 MPH to 100 MPH. Velocity in a high performance rifle cartridge is the same law of diminishing returns. Your just whining about something that has been known for years, and is the same worthless, boring fodder that is used by everyone who either doesn't like, want, or can't shoot, high performance rifles. Do you really think a person who lays down $2,000.00 on a high performance Weatherby, or $4,000.00 for a Lazzaroni gives a rats ass how much powder it burns? Or a guy who drives a $85,000.00 Dodge Viper cares about his gas mileage? The old, "I can get to work just as fast as he can", argument is just about as lame. For you guys there will always be .243's and 40 MPG Volkswagens, so don't worry about the guy in the other lane, or at the bench next to you. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by van:
.... I am also use to big guns,in what they do and can,t do for being there head gunsmith for some time and working for other major companies. ...

Hey Van, Are you saying you used to work at Weatherby?

Yes,I did. And as for other shooters want,needs,and desires at the shooting bench,or at a buffet, thats why some companies follow the guidelines of PT Barnum. van

Hey Van, Glad to see you on-board here.

I don't see a problem with a 30-378, 338-378, 460 or a 50BMG, but then, I don't have one right now.