Steve,

I noticed you favor the 168gr. Sierra BTHP in 7MM Mag. I have two buds that use the same rifle(Ruger M77 tang safety) and same exact bullet and have for years. This isn't a flame or a crap flinger but an honest to God question as you have a helluva more experience than I do. What is the performance of this bullet on game? One of the gentlemen unfortunately has deceased and his Ruger is in my safe along with 30+ of these handloads. I haven't shot it yet, but someday may use it on whitetails as I cannot see it sitting there collecting dust(he'd hate that). I've never used it before so I don't know what to expect. The deer that I'd encounter are less that 200lbs. on the hoof typically and are generally shot at 200 yards or less. I know that this is way more gun than I'll need, but again would like to use it (or someone in his family might) on deer. I do not have any dies for this rifle so the existing loads would have to do. I do remember him getting great accuracy out of this rig. Your input will be greatly appreciated, thank you.

P.S. You may have seen me on other forums as "High Brass" if that helps any.

Chad

Performance?

Well, on paper it looks like this:


5-shots at 200-yards.
Firearm: Ruger 77R in 7mm Remington Magnum
Optics: Leupold Vari-X 4x12AO
Case: Remington
Primer: CCI-200
Powder: 64.6 grains of RL-22
Bullet: Sierra 168 grain Hollow Point Boat Tail
Velocity: 2943 FPS @ 15' from muzzle

And on game (just the other day) it looks like this:

425 yard, 1-shot kill, didn't move from where he stood, neck shot, dressed weight 160 pounds.

This same rifle and load is responsible for a 725-yard, one-shot kill on an antelope.

Now all that being said, I have also used this combination on a small white tail doe at around 75 yards, and she, too, dropped where she stood. And no, she didn't look as if she had been hit with a grenade.

All-in-all, this combination has probably been used to take around 35 animals at all ranges. It has worked flawlessly giving me one-shot kills with no tracking required every time.

Thanks for the reply. The load data that I have from the ammo box is as follows:

Bullet:Sierra 168gr. BTHP
Case: R-P
Primer: Rem. 9 1/2
Powder: IMR 4350
Charge: 60 gr.
Velocity: 2881 fps.

I was just "worried" about bullet blow up or no expansion at all. I can theorize all day, but until you see for yourself you don't really know. I figured since you have the amount of experience that you have with said bullet, you'd give me the skinny on how they perform on game. Thanks again Steve.

Chad

The loads "should" be okay...

IMR-4350 From 51.4 grains to 61.0 grains
CCI-200 Primer

well.....since steve is answering questions

i got one also.


how effective would the(.308) sierra 165gr hpbt bullet be on deer and elk, at approximately 2700fps muzzle velocity?......and at what ranges?

i assume it would be good, but any personal experience?


reason i ask..............i'm in the early stages of setting up a 16.5" 300 win mag encore handgun i expect 2700fps with 165's, as another feller i know is gettin it out of a 15" barrel 300 win mag with 165's and imr4350. my barrel is cut and recrowned from a 26" heavy rifle barrel.

........and while yer here how well would you expect faster burning powders such as varget, and h4895 to perform in that short barrel cannon?

.......and by the way, don't try this in a encore handgun with wood grips, using 180gr factory loads without a muzzle brake. it's kinnda painful to the hand.

Well, I don't shoot a .308, I use either the .30-06 or the .300 Winchester. And I don't use the 165 grain bullets in the '06, I use either the 168 Sierra HPBT or the 180 Nosler Partition (I prefer the Sierra HPBT for smaller animals, such as deer and antelope and elk). For my .300 Win. Mag I use the Sierra 200 grain HPBT.



My 168's leave the muzzle (actually 15' from the muzzle) at 2801 FPS, and I have never had a problem using them on game.



The 180's are doing 2705 FPS.



And the 200's are clipping along at 2986 FPS.



For your .300 Win. Mag load I would use RL-22 From 66.9 grains to 79.5 grains and the Winchester WLR Primer.



16.5" is really a short carbine barrel...

Hey Chad, Semper Fi! And Welcome Aboard.

Got a question or two for you. Any chance there is still a small watering-hole called "Skip's" right outside the Main Gate in the small triangle of shops off the main highway? It used to have a bunch of nice aquariums inside it.

How `bout the "Busty Ruckle"(Rusty Buckle)?

Good old Liplock, NC, sure brings back some fine memories. Are "Captain Bill's" and the "Sanitary Seafood Market" still thriving in Morehead City? How `bout the "Ember's Club" and the "Pavilion"? Speaking of that, are the Embers still playing down there?

Lots and lots of great hunting and fishing out there. I used to literally see hundreds of Deer at night on the run back from hunting(two legged Dear) up at ECU. And if you want to see thousands of them on a single night, cut across LeJeune - simply mind boggling!

Best of luck with the rifle and loads.

Man oh man, you should see it now! Glad to hear from a feller that has stomped some of the same ground. In any event, no the places you mentioned in Have-Not are no longer open. I'm sure that its a horse of a different color. There are no shortages of bars in Havelock(hell its a Marine town) but most of them change names(sometimes even owners) every year or two. I go to Ruby's Bar and Grill off of Hwy 101 which is right next to the boobie bars. It was called something else back in the day but I cannot remember the previous name of it. Yup, did the whole storm ECU campus for a while and run down to Atlantic Beach in my earlier days. Now I'm engaged to a woman from back home (West Virginia) and we still live in good old Havelock, NC. Not too much here but not too little either I reckon. Anywho, take care and holler at me anytime. Semper Fi.

Well, I am not Steve, but I can answer your question, "how effective would the(.308) sierra 165gr hpbt bullet be on deer and elk, at approximately 2700fps muzzle velocity?......and at what ranges?"

This load will prove very effective on deer out to at least 300 yards. It should do on elk also, but placement of course is everything.

I used this bullet in my .308 Win. for many years for deer at 2800 FPS MV, and it was a one-shot killer on every one I ever shot with it. When going for elk, I switched to the 165-grain Nosler Partition bullet with the same powder charge, 51 grains of H380. In the M99 Savage, I had to cut the powder charge to 48 grains to get reliable extraction. The 51 grain load was used in a pre-64 Win. M 70 Featherweight.

thanks!.....pretty much what i figured, but it's good to get actual recorded kill information.

i did use the .277 sierra 140gr hpbt, and used it on a few whitetail. done great.

Hey Chad, I hear you about the changes. I was there in the late`60s-early `70s. Had VMCJ-2 as my home. Worked with a good many Sand Crabs that absolutely loved to hunt and fish.

We would "pull-down" 7.62NATO cartridges and dump all the powder in some buckets and toss the FMJs. Then work up some loads using good old Hornady bullets in 165gr SPs and RNs and use them in the M-14s for Deer, Hogs and Black Bears.

And we would take some other cases and expand them up to be used as .358Wins and load them with 200gr Hornady SPs and RNs. Six of the Sand Crabs had .358Win M99 Savages and we all enjoyed their fine handling and accuracy with those old loads. I went to get some 200gr 0.358" RNs one time and the Gun Shop was out. I came back with the SPs and the M99 guys were ready to keelhaul me. They had always used the RNs and were reluctant to mess with the "fancy SPs". However, the M99s did make 66 straight 1-shot kills with the "fancy SPs" before I left Cherry Point.

If you have access to Cherry Point or LeJeune during Deer Season, for darn sure take advantage of it. You just never know what you might see on them.

I feel sure it is more difficult to get "Base Hunting Clearance" with the Iraq mess going on, but be ready in case you can swing an invite from someone.

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You are probably aware of this, but some of the Pawn Shops have some tremendous deals on firearms if you know a good bit about them. I bought some "Used" rifles there, that were actually in better shape than some "New" ones I saw at Bullseye Gun Shop.

One in particular was the 1st Generation M77 Ruger in 243Win. Bullseye had it for $165 "New" on the shelf, but the stock had a small scratch on the forearm. Nothing major, but it was there. I asked one of the Pawn Shop guys if he had a 243Win of any type in good condition. He said he didn't think so, but he had something he thought I might be interested in.

Next thing I know he lays a Suede gun case on the counter. I zipped it open and there was a 243Win M77 in pristine condition with a K3-C3 Weaver on it. A box of cartridges with 3 spent, a Cobra style leather sling with a suede lining and the inside of the gun case with the shearling interior.

I'd dealt with him before(which is indeed important) and ended up getting the whole works for $120. Excellent rifle which killed a whole lot of Deer while I had it.

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I hear New Burn has a couple of new high bridges now days. When I was there they had a couple of turn-styles as you headed off to ECU. The Vanceboro "Police Station" was about as big as 4 phone booths pushed together. I don't believe a regular size desk would fit in it, but that may be all fouled up due to memory fade. Their police cars were not too fast, but the State Troopers were running Dodge Hemis which were fairly quick.

---

Worst hangover of my life was eating "Beer Steeped Hot Dogs" at a place called Thad's on the way to Atlantic Beach. It was on the right just before reaching the BIG Hospital. Had the Hot Dogs and Dark Beer which eventually did me in. Mouth tasted like a Gorilla's Arm Pit the next morning. Great education - I learned not to do that!

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Used to really enjoy going out to Fort Macon and fishing or messing around in the old fort. Easy to sit back and mentally visualize the Troops standing Muster in the morning mist and the little General standing on the steps leading up to the ramparts.

Lots of good things to do down there if a person enjoys the outdoors. If they are indoor people, I guess it doesn't matter where they are.

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Best of luck to you and your Sweetie!

Hot Core,

Wow, times really have changed a bit then. I work with an old ordinance salt that was here in '68 for a while and then went to Nam. He told me about the M-14 deer hunting days. I still work on the base as a civie for a contractor. Its ok for the most part and I still have base hunting priveledges. I hunt both the Croatan Nat. For. and on base. It's shotgun, muzzleloader, and bow only on the base now which kind of stinks. I've killed a few deer over the years but it probably isn't like it used to be years ago. The Croatan gets heavily dog hunted and they've really thinned the deer out to almost non-existant in some places. On base it isn't too bad but there are alot of hunters here on base, even with the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Its not too bad but it isn't the greatest hunting in the world. I haven't taken a deer yet this year but haven't had the chance to hunt that much either. Take care it its good hearing from folks that were here in the big city of Havelock at one time or another.

Chad

Hey Chad, Time indeed does change a lot of things.

Used to be some Hogs out East of the Base on private property that some of the Sand Crabs owned and/or had access to. No Russians, just domestic "Hogs Gone WILD". And if you get in with the right guys, there is some of the "World's Finest" Black Bear hunting out toward Lake Mattamuskeet. It is a bit of a drive, but nothing out of reason.

One of my oldest MARINE CORPS buddies was an Ordance Man as well. He is in Fort McCoy, Florida now and works for the city of Ocalla. He and some of the other Squadron guys used to love to race SATS Loaders, backwards of course, on the tarmac. Seems that a lot of effort went into those "events".

Good crabbing off the dock on Base. There used to be a HUGE caldron chained to a post just past the pier for anyone to use to boil crabs. I believe it was about 25 gallons large. We had caught a GI can completely full of crabs off the pier and were headed over to the caldron - barefooted. Big mistake!

When we came off the wooden pier, the gravel was burning our feet even though we had liberally soaked them internally with good old Blue Ribbon. Well, my buddy Sgt. Copeland drops his side of the GI can and it takes me a moment to figure out what has happened amongst all the kids screaming and women hollering. I was still holding my side of the can and the other side had dropped enough to be spilling crabs out as if I was spreading sand.

People running all over the place trying to get away from the crabs. It was quite comical, but I seem to remember a lot of folks being upset rather than seeing the humor in it for some reason.

Great place to make some fine memories if a person puts a bit of effort into it.

Used to know the folks who owned the Bucaneer Motel as you go to Morehead City. Their last name was Glancy. Don't know if they still own it or not.

Well, gotta go check out a basketball game. Enjoy Havelock, it is a nice place "IF" you want it to be.

Familiar with the term "Hijack"?

Hey Steve, you get a bunch of grunts together and there's no way you're gonna stop the sea stories.

Hey Chad, Email is on the way. Semper Fi!< !--color-->

Hot Core, didn't get it. Try againg bud.

Chad

Woops, left out the "e" after the @........DDDDuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Hey Steve, DOn't know why they'd ask you anyway!! After all in a post a couple weeks back you indicated the ranges that you felt good about using certain calibers!! And it seems to me you said you limited yourself to 350 yards with the 22-250 and over that out to 400 you went with a 6mm......and now you're posting 700 yard plus kills.......I guess a man's gotta know his limitations!!! GHD