Please don't tell the deer this bullet is no good for hunting!

First shot was at a white tail doe. Distance was about 475 yards. One shot, one kill. The animal dropped like a ton of bricks. Didn't move an inch after the bullet hit (bullet? bullet? 7mm mag, 168 Sierra HPBT MK, doing around 2992 fps.)

Second shot was at a white tail buck. Distance was around 300 yards. Again, one shot, one kill. And this animal dropped just like the first one! Same load.

Now tell me that Sierra MK bullets aren't worth a damn for hunting!

I think the SMK's work better at extended ranges than they do at close range. My brother shot a deer twice, inside 100 yards, with the 168 SMK's in a .308 (43 grains of IMR 4895) and it got away from him. He and one witness said that the first shot was right in the "boiler room."

Something that the military leared quite a while back is that overstabilized bullets tend to penetrate without tumbling. When they went to the fast twist .223 AR's, they noticed a decline in instant incapacitation of enemy, as compared to the results seen with slower twist barrels.

At extended ranges, the Matchking is easier to upset, and it tumbles. When a Matchking tumbles, hell hath no fury... This according to military sniper terminal performance files, as well as police sniper records.

Police normally operate inside 100 yards, and most departments prefer a 1:12 twist to the 1:10 twist in their .308's because of the better terminal performance observed from the slower twist barrels.

While all reports of game incapacitation at any range are anecdotal, I can see why the Matchking works well at longer ranges: The bullet tumbles shortly after entry.

Dan Newberry
green 788

Better check the fridge Steve, and see if them there critters done come back to life and run off

Don't you know MK's aren't hunters?

R-WEST

You know, Steve, you guys crack me up!

You are just like the kid down the street that buys a new Chevy truck then has to have it lowered and put on some different wheels, etc.

Do you think that kid knows more about cars than the engineers at General Motors? I don't think so.

Well, I think that the folks at Sierra know more about bullets than the users out here. Sure, you had good performance this time, good shots to be sure. BUT, sooner or later you are going to have a problem, Sierra knows about bullets.

R F

Rflowers
The "engineers" are unfortunately not the only ones with a hand in making anything. Public apeal, cost cutting etc all play a part. As a mechanic, you would not believe the things I said (cursed) while working on some of the stuff they put out.
It works good eh? then lets change it so it has sales apeal!

Trooper sensitivity,you got your neighbors kids sitting on your lap again. Lets get shit stirred up again.

I have done my best to leave this alone. But I tried the 175 MK this year in my 308 Win. I shot this bullet in 1000 yard F class competion the last two years. The load I shot gets an honest 2700 fps from the 24" barrel. I took two deer with two shots. The exit wounds were about the size of a 50 cent piece. The longest shot at 361 yds. Nether deer went over 10 yards. I had a real hard time believing a 175 gr. bullet at 2700 fps would not work on deer. Mercy deer are not bullet proof. And since I have got started here, lets talk about bullet failure. Gentlem I have killed 70+ deer with my 308 over the last 30 years with numerous different bullets, and have lost a grand total of 3 them. And they WERE NOT due to bullet failure! I have used every thing from the 125 gr. Nosler BT to the 180 gr. Partition. and a lot of other bullets in between. And have never experienced bullet blow up or just punching a hole and not expanding. I think a lot of what is blamed on poor bullet performance or failure is shooter error that hunters don't want to admit. Just becuase the cross hairs were on the boiler room does not mean you hit there! I am not saying 70+ deer makes me any sort of expert at all. But I have shot enough deer to make a few observations.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight...........RiverRat

i think a lot of what is blamed on poor bullet performance or failure is shooter error that hunters don't want to admit. Just becuase the cross hairs were on the boiler room does not mean you hit there! I am not saying 70+ deer makes me any sort of expert at all. But I have shot enough deer to make a few observations.
You hit the nail on the head with that one...
Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight...........RiverRat[/qb][/QUOTE]

[ 11-24-2002, 02:23: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

Folks, I'm not going to say that Matchkings don't kill game.

But you have to concede (or appear a fool by not conceding) that bullets of all types fail. Some fail more than others, but all will fail, sooner or later.

Pick your favorite bullet, and go with it. Just please don't accuse every reported failure of that bullet on a poorly placed shot. That's a copout, and you know it...

Dan

If you have the ability as well as the gun and can place a bullet in the right spot you could use a bullet made out of paper. I'm just saying that for thin skin game if you put a hole thru their vitals they are going to die, nothing short of a act of god will save them. The problem is that most hunters aren't great shots and therefore require better bullet preformance.

Like I said, I have yet to see one fail of any kind. If the shot is in the heart-lung area the deer is going to die quickly. Maybe I will have a bullet failure some day. I just have a real strong feeling the shooter is far more likely to fail than the bullet my friends. Unitil it is proven to my I concede nothing.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.....RiverRat

Well Steve, as you said, first things first.

I agree totally on your choice of vehicles, I too only drive Fords. But I can hardly see that very many people need or would see the difference in adding all that stuff you did to your Bronco. If you like it, feel you need it, etc. GREAT, but to try to sell it to the general public would be a disaster.

In regard to the bullets, I shoot a hell of a lot of Sierra Matchkings every year as I shoot silhouette competion. AND, I had to try them on prarie dogs and ground squirrels, and was very diassapointed. In both .224 and .243 calibers I found the Matchkings to be very erratic in terminal performance. They were wonderfully accurate, but you never knew whether the prairie dog you were shooting at would come completely apart or whether he would walk off as if shot with a 22 LR at 100 yards.

If you like them for game, enjoy, but I will listen to SIerra's warnings and just shoot them at paper and steel.

Good Luck, R F

R.F...

I don't sell my Broncos to the "general public". I receive phone calls from people asking me if I am ready to sell this Bronco, yet. And my standard answer is, "Not until Ford starts making them again."

People know what I do to my Broncos, and are very interested in buying them.

Now, once again, the MK bullets.

Sorry to hear you had poor experience with them. All I can say is that I haven't. I have three .22-250's that see more than their share of "gophers", "prairie dogs" and all kids of other little "ground critters" here in Montana, and one has been very good in Pennsylvania on "ground hogs". They love the 52 HPBT bullet. Generally all I see when I hit one is a red cloud in the air.

But...you will do what you feel is best and I will do what I feel is best. At least you are not telling me that I am going to be condemned to hell for all eternity because I use a "target" bullet....grin.

[ 11-25-2002, 00:32: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

What about the Hornady .30 cal hpbt match bullets? I have them in 168gr and 190gr's. Should I try them on deer? It will be in .308 win.

I don't hunt with a .308, but I use the 168's in my '06, and the 200's in my .300 Winchester. they work for me...

So what? Go kill a couple deer with some fmj bullets and youll find that they WILL DO THE JOB TOO!! Does it mean that it is wise or prudent? Does it mean that they should be used on a regular basis? I think not.

Maybe Matchkings are better for hunting than they are supposed to be, so why not do some expansion testing if you want to use them and see what you find? At least allow your quarry that much.

Dino...

I don't know what others consider "failure", but to me a bullet fails when it takes more than one shot to drop the animal where it was standing.

But I have found that when that happens, it is not the bullet that "failed", but the shooter...

Steve

Nicely, but I disagree with you. My definition of a bullet failing is not tied directly to the distance a deer travells after being hit with the bullet.

I would ask myself these questions.

Did the bullet perform inside the animal in a reasonable manner? Did it penetrate thru the portion of the body that the bullet has a reasonable expectation to penetrate and into the heart/lung area? Did the bullet cause significant trauma to the heart or lungs? If yes then did the deer expire in a short distance? I cant say that I have killed a great many animals but of the ones that I have killed from small to big, very few expired on the spot. Most had a little life left in them for a short period of time.

A deer can run for a ways with a little life left in it.

Jim B.

Too much steel in the MK's lead,as well as other bullets from that manufacturer.Just try hitting them squarely with a hammer or putting them on the vice-they don't want to expand.Even a poorly placed shot in the non vitals with a expanding bullet stands the chance of immobilizing the game temporarily,so you can approach and finnish it off.A bullet that does not expand easily ,if not well placed will pass through and the game will run away wounded.

Steve
My experience with Matchkings on Montana deer just doesn't concur with yours.In 1982 my best friend got a Rem. 788 in 22/250.We promptly load up some 52gr MK. and the first load we tried shot great.Off we go after mule deer.He is shooting I'm watching the deer thru the spotting scope.He shot 4 deer,all under 200 yds. The first 2 were shot right behind the front shoulder,I watched hair fly. we never recover either deer.This was in those rolling hills just west of you.The next 2 were neck shot,dead deer in there tracks.If Matchkings are great hunting hunting bullets why doesn't Sierra market them as such.This doesn't mean they don't kill deer,there are just better bullets.Also sorry to hear about all the stuff you had to do to the Ford,go over to Wolf point and get youself a 3/4 Turbo diesel Dodge and you won't have to change anything.Have a nice day

This deer was taken at 75 yard's with a 168gr MK from a 280 Rem

Boyd...nice example.

Wolfer...too bad your friend doesn't know how to select a caliber and place a shot. Also too bad you let two wounded animals get away...haven't you ever heard of hydrogen peroxide?

Shootaway...you are so full of shit you have no idea...MK bullets have steel in the cores? Get real!

And for the rest of you, here is a picture of some of the animals taken in the past couple of years with MK bullets:

very nice Ricciardelli

WSTRNHUNTR,EXPANSION TEST

Holmes,I'll change that from a poorly placed shot to a bad shoot.

shootaway, you haven't answered what kind of crack you were smoking when you discovered there is steel in the lead of MK's. Really, please tell me! I want some! I'll bet if I smoke enough I'll find the jackets are also Kevlar reinforced!

I know what I`m fixing to do, TRY SOME!!!!!!!!! Damn what a hole! How far did you have to track that deer that was shot with the Matchking?? I bet all of 3 FEET!!! Fellows what weight do you recommend for the 6.5 bore, I have a very nice custom .264 Win Mag and I know they make 107 gr. 120 gr and 140 and 142 gr. I also have a wildcat based on the 338RUM case necked to 7mm which 7mm bullet at high velocity works? Thanks and keep putting them in a tiny hole!!!

Kinda new hereabouts.....but this topic looked interesting, so here goes.

I've not used MK's on large game, but the .224 x 52 grain BT's do great work on ground squirrels, jackrabbits, and crows in both 223 and 22-250. It has become my "go to" bullet in a new bolt rifle for its proven (to me, anyway) intrinsic accuracy in every 223 and 22-250 I've tried them in. That's more than 10 rifles, BTW.

The 69 grainers in the Mini-14 will shade 1 MOA in my box-stock example (1-9" twist). This load (2700 FPS) annihilates coyotes.

Just my 2 cents.

Deputy Al

Tim a buddy of mine shot that buck,no tracking involved ...All would work in your 264,but I would lean toward the heavy ones,The 168gr 7mm MK would work in your 7.Thats what killed the buck in the picture out of a 280...

Thanks,Boyd H. I will be looking hard for some Sierra`s I think 150`s and 168`s will be on my list to try in the 7/338, and if I EVER find another 270 Classic I will be trying the 135`s. I thank you for keeping up with the new technology for us to be able to take advantage of!!! Anyone will have to agree with the photo`s.

I can't remember what kind of crack it was,I'll have to ask the pusher.