I was asking myself, how much use does this possibly serve, beside making a light recoiling accurate deer hunting round.

TBFs post also shed some light on my thoughts:

Off season practice.

One of the half dozen reasons I have played with Blue Dot is its accuracy.

So doing a little math in my head on the drive back from the range, I came up with some thoughts that I highlighted on the 7 x 57 thread.

Locally 7 x 57 ammo from Remington runs about $14.50 a box, for the places that carry it.

I can order 140, 150 or 175 grain Remington SPs from Cabelas and Midway for about $55.00 per 500.

If one uses the 20 grains of Blue Dot for a MV of 2000 fps ( 30/30, with a 170 gr bullet equivalent bullet), and takes a 100 yd target and shrink it by 50%, it would be like shooting it at 200 yds regularly.

Not with varmint hunters, but one thing lacking in a lot of deer hunters, I think we all will agree on is TRIGGER TIME, OFF SEASON. Based on cost of ammo, or worrying about barrel wear. If one checks out the life time of a barrel at 2000 fps, I think it will surprise you. I once saw an estimate on a gunsmith site, ( sorry don't have the reference at my fingertips, so you will have to bear with me) but they estimated the barrel life of a 30/30 at 20,000 plus rounds. A 22 Long Rifle was over a 100,000 and a 22 mag was in excess of 50,000.

But with 500 bullets from midway, a half size target at 100 yds and a pound and a half of blue dot, you can load up the equivalent of 25 boxes of store bought ammo.

You total cost will be about $80.00 where the store bought ammo will cost you ( based on my local area ), 25 boxes at $14.50 per box = $362.50! Even if you had to buy a 100 cases of 7 x 57 that would run you from $20.00 out of Graf and sons to $30.00 for Remington or Winchester out of Midway or Cabelas.

That would buy a lot of trigger time at the range, with out breaking the piggy bank too much and doing too much damage to old Betsy's barrel.

I am sure it does not apply to anyone on this forum, but I am sure you know a lot of deer hunting guys that could use a lot more practice than the two shots to make sure their rifle has the same zero on the two shots at the range they did last year and the 2 boxes they burned up out hunting and not hitting anything, because they believe they own a 500 yd deer rifle with their 6 x 18 x 50 scope they paid $50.00 for.

This would have never crossed my mind if I had turned on the radio on the way home instead of thinking of this sort of stuff.
anyway.....
Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Seafire,

I see Blue Dot as a very interesting powder for reduced velocities with light bullets. For instance it's working very well in the Swift with 13 grs and a 40 gr bullet at 2400 fps.

For reduced velocity game loads I would use 4759 or 3031.

In the 06 with a 125 gr 46 grs of 3031 gives 2800 fps. That's a fairly light load that works well on light game within 150 yds.

And what happens when you double charge the case?

My biggest problem in getting trigger time has nothing to do with cost.

It's arranging for the time.....too many commitments.

It's an interesting concept, but hang the cost issue, I want time.....

About the same thing as when you double charge a case with any other powder.

That is why it is important that the person handloading his ammunition is responsible for paying attention to what he is doing.

It is his head he has to be concerned about. Others are not responsible for someone else's irresponsibility, that results in harm to themselves or their property.

If someone is not capable of paying attention to what he is doing, then he should consider doing something else, like buying ammo in a store and knitting.

Cheers and Good shooting.
seafire

West guy,

Can't help you with that one!

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Your ecconomic layout is well taken. I have not however been able to achieve the velocities that you have. In the 7X57 and a 19" barrel 150 gr. bullet and 22 gr. of blue dot gets me 2065 ft./ sec. This is a marginal 30-30 energy level. The 6.5X55 with a 140 gr. bullet and 21.5 gr.of blue dot was very close to 2000 ft./sec.; also marginal.I truely do not want to be arguementative and I'm not trying to rain on your parade. You have put a lot of fine work into this project. If you think the numbers substatiate what you were after ,that's all that matters.

If getting ample shooting in all year long with a good deer load and at a greatly reduced cost in powder with either of the two cartridges That have been here mentioned, 6.5x55 &7x57, than try using 7383. With the heavier bullets it works just fine and I don't think even I could overload either.In the Shotgun News 7383 is advertised at $24.00/7lbs.I paid $96.00 for 28 lbs plus shipping and HI-TECH paid the hazmat.In the 7x57 -175gr. bullet, 41.7gr 7383 compressed, win mag primer, RP case 19" barrel the velocity measure 2235 ft./sec. avg. A full case of 7383 (40gr.) behind behind a 140gr bullet with a mag. primer will give you 2400ft./sec in the 6.5x55 and a 29 1/2" barrel.

The Seafire Blue Dot experiment has given me fantastic performance in .222, .223, .22-.250, And most of all my .243. Of great value to me was the pioneering effort into the area of reduced or down loading even to the point at times of establishing legitimate max load limits.This is just a fine effort and helped get rid of a lot of smoke and mirrors that has kept me away from reduced loading for 47 years.

I have one more area in which to try the blue dot. Four of my widcats are based on 06 cases chopped down to (41mm) 1.625" They are 7mm, 30cal., 35cal &.375 cal.I think in the two latter Blue Dot is going to do just fine. roger

Just off the cuff, Westman;
Forget futures trading , Invest in a 100 bench shooting range. Let the wife and kids post and pull targets and collect and sell once used brass and factory and reloaded ammo they can make while watching TV. You can be the range officer ,general costodian, and quik order cook.Introduce illuminated long rang target shooting at your range for the guys that have to work all day and don't have time to shot.Hold reasonably priced seminars and classes related to shooting, hunting and reloading. Invite guest speakers from this forum. OOrrrrrr Wait until you can retire as I did and hope you still got a few good years left to play with the toys that you never had time for before you retired. I'll let you know if any more options come to mind. Boy! you sure came to the right place to get help with that problem. Glad we could help roger

Roger,

There is no parade to rain on. The main focus was an accurate download, for economy and for range shooting.

We are all on here to share results.

If anyone can gain some utility in it, then we have accomplished the mission intended.

Thanks for checking out some of the other stuff, for me and giving me the email heads up on the 7 x 57.

blue dot is far from my first powder of choice. It just has some applications and that is also a point of reference.

I use a lot of IMR 4198 for downloading, and my normal powder for the 7 x 57 is IMR 3031.

Just the experimenting was a lot of fun to me.

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

Seafire,

I was impressed by the accuracy of the Blue Dot in 300 WSM.
This is not a load for every occasion, but exteremely pleasant to shoot, and I'm thinking, easy on the barrel.
Heat is greatly reduced.

I will probably not adopt Blue dot as my " standard " powder for all rifle shooting, but it has a definate " sweet spot " in my mind for it's intended purpose of reduced power loads in rifles.

Speaking of "sweet spots" , I have never seen a better example of this demonstrated in a rifle at 100 yards. It was about half an inch for a four grain spread in powder.
That alone is pretty cool.

But seeing that a powder that only fills half the case can turn in respectable groups ( less than .500 for 5 shots at 100 yds is my definition of respectable ) is cooler still.

Thanks again for your data, I would not have thought of this myself.

YOU DA MAN !

Travis F.

Gonna have to try H4198 next...

Travis F.

"Gonna have to try H4198 next"...

You might get a pleasant surprise if you try IMR7383w/ mag primer. This powder sells for $24.00/7lbs. And the accuracy in almost all the calibers I've used it in has been good.It is almost imposible to over load. You probably will only be able to achieve about 85% of normal max velocity with a compressed load. roger

Seafire: Ever try unique? This is what I have used for all my reduced stuff so far.

1894

Ok, Blue Dot requires more attention when inspecting cases; that is a cost for the convenience (at the range) of this specialty load. I shoot a lot of Bullseye in my 45 ACP and even for some light bullets in my 45 Colt: same rule goes for that too. It may not be so obvious that it is an overload (no powder spilling out of the mouth of the case) but that isn't all you look for before seating the bullet, is it? You're a safe loader and you check your cases to make sure each one has a charge because you know that a primer is often powerful enough to lodge a bullet in the bore but not enough to expel said bullet from bore. You check all of your cases because you know what could happen if you pull the trigger on a gun with a bore obstruction. You know that loading bulky powders does not relieve you from visually inspecting cases before seating bullets, so unless you load in poor light, I don't see that big of a problem.

1894:

With all due respects....

If a case has a capacity of 52 grains of Powder X and you are talking about putting 50 grains of powder in it, I fail to see how you can double charge it.

If you are using a powder and are putting less than 50 % of the capacity in it, then you can potentially double charge it.
However the closer your charge is to 50% of the capacity, the more likely you will notice a double charge.

I am hoping this is not a challenge to start and argument, because I respectfully submit it takes TWO to have an argument, and I am not willing to participate.

If you are a handloader, you should have enough parameters to know what you should do and not do. If it is unclear to someone they should not be messing around with something above their head. That statement is not aimed at you personally but to the reader in here in general.

One person can not be liable for someone else's irresponsibility.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Yes I tried it.

I found it inconsistent. I found it having poor accuracy in the calibers I tried it in. I found that it is more in the ball park of Green Dot or Red Dot, which gives velocities under 2,000 fps, and I was looking more for a hunting velocity instead of a target practice velocity.

I am sure Unique has its place and I am not knocking it.
It just did not do as well in the applications I was applying it as did the Blue Dot.

I am also not a big pistol cartridge loader. I have inherited a few handguns in the past year due to someone dying.

A 45 ACP, a 9mm, a 45 Long Colt, and a 357 magnum.

I have loaded 38 specials in the 357, and have loaded the 45 Long Colt. I carry the Long Colt as a side arm when out hunting since there are bears and cougars out where I go to deer and elk hunt.

I was mega impressed with the accuracy of that 45 Long Colt.
It is in an 1873 Revolver Reproduction series 3 by Colt, with a 7.5 inch barrel.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Seafire didn't come right out and say it.
So I will.

If spilled powder and difficult bullet seating are the only indication you have of a double charge, you should not attempt this at all. Period .

Charge the case one time, and one time only.

Travis F.

Thanks 1894!

Point noted and well taken.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire