Does anyone have Quickload data for 338 WM Reloder 17, 185 TTSX Barnes?

The Barnes TTSX 185 grain bullet is 1.345" long,
and would be loaded to 3.30 OAL in a 338 WinMag,
with 73 grains of Reloder 17.
I'm guessing that this would be a max load of around 62k PSI,
producing about 3150 fps.
If primer is necessary, then use Fed gold 215M.
Can anyone run the data on Quickload and confirm this guestimate?
Does Quickload even have Rel-17 in its database?

How about the same bullet and 76 grains of Reloder 19? what are predicted pressures and velocities?

(Yes, I am aware that one approaches max loads with caution and from below. I am trying to get an overview before doing the load buildup.)

quote:

How about the same bullet and 76 grains of Reloder 19? what are predicted pressures and velocities?

with a 24" tube quick load came up with 3026 fps and 57,347 psi


quickload does'nt have rl-17, time to send it in for an update

Thanks.
This leads to another question:

Can one expect to fit 78 grains or 79 grains of
Rel 19 into the load?
Maybe 78.5 grains would predict
3150fps and <63k psi?

Here's the predictions with re17

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 185, Barnes 'TSX' BT 33843
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch or 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 58.40 2576 2726 33977 7999 94.4 1.380
-18.0 80 59.86 2636 2853 36119 8221 95.4 1.348
-16.0 82 61.32 2695 2984 38402 8432 96.3 1.316
-14.0 84 62.78 2755 3117 40834 8632 97.1 1.285
-12.0 86 64.24 2814 3253 43424 8818 97.8 1.254
-10.0 88 65.70 2873 3391 46189 8990 98.4 1.224
-08.0 90 67.16 2932 3532 49139 9148 99.0 1.195
-06.0 92 68.62 2991 3675 52284 9290 99.4 1.167
-04.0 94 70.08 3049 3820 55659 9415 99.7 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 71.54 3107 3967 59263 9523 99.9 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 73.00 3165 4115 63125 9613 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 99 74.46 3222 4265 67263 9687 100.0 1.044 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 75.92 3279 4416 71706 9756 100.0 1.015 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 77.38 3335 4569 76479 9821 100.0 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 78.84 3391 4723 81620 9884 100.0 0.961 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 80.30 3447 4880 87161 9942 100.0 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 73.00 3279 4416 74943 9230 100.0 1.003 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 73.00 2996 3688 52414 9713 97.0 1.164

quote:

-04.0 94 70.08 3049 3820 55659 9415 99.7 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 71.54 3107 3967 59263 9523 99.9 1.103 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 73.00 3165 4115 63125 9613 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

thank you Kraky, these help if I'm reading them correctly.
they actually predict a max load of Rel-17 at 73 grain, where 63k psi is within the SAAMI 64k. But then below they explain that this includes a potential 10% "fast batch" calculation:

quote:

+Ba 97 73.00 3279 4416 74943 9230 100.0 1.003 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Now that would be hot (ouch!), and explains why everyone suggests building up slowly !

Having said the above, what does quickload predict for 69grains Rel-17 and 225 grain TTSX (1.55" bullet length)? My gun seems to do 2800-2840fps, which is a reasonable velocity in the published books.
Would Quickload agree/predict?
The load was developed without the benefit of specific data, only pressure signs and chronograph.

I should add that the 71.5 grain R-17 load for 185 grain bullet at 3100fps looks very reasonable and fits many predictions in the manuals.

Another factor in this may be that the european "SAAMI" uses 62k psi as its standard rather than 64k psi. Which would make 3100 a more reasonable expectation than 3150 for the calibre.

Yes you are reading the data correctly re the 185 and quickload.
I play with quickload alot and have also played with re17 in a number of calibers. Quick load always seems to think it's just a tad hotter than I find it to be.
ALSO..be aware I used a 25" barrel...not sure what your length was.
ALSO...quickload doesn't take into effect freebore which seems to exist in alot of todays magnums. You can adjust for it once you have some data from the gun or you can use the charts to see what speed you are at and a "possible" pressure. Freebore is much like adding alot of case capacity to the case you are using. Anyhow here is the prediction chart for the 225 tsx.
Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 225, Barnes 'TSX' S 33846
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch or 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 55.20 2422 2930 37453 7852 98.0 1.454
-18.0 80 56.58 2475 3061 39843 8028 98.6 1.419
-16.0 82 57.96 2529 3195 42387 8191 99.1 1.385
-14.0 84 59.34 2582 3331 45098 8339 99.5 1.352
-12.0 86 60.72 2635 3468 47988 8473 99.7 1.320
-10.0 88 62.10 2687 3607 51070 8591 99.9 1.289
-08.0 90 63.48 2739 3748 54359 8693 100.0 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 92 64.86 2790 3890 57873 8782 100.0 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 94 66.24 2841 4033 61629 8869 100.0 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 67.62 2892 4178 65650 8952 100.0 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 98 69.00 2942 4324 69953 9033 100.0 1.124 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 100 70.38 2992 4471 74574 9111 100.0 1.094 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 71.76 3041 4620 79531 9186 100.0 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 104 73.14 3090 4771 84863 9258 100.0 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 106 74.52 3139 4923 90603 9326 100.0 1.010 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 108 75.90 3188 5078 96792 9390 100.0 0.984 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 69.00 3026 4574 83090 8715 100.0 1.056 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 69.00 2813 3953 57961 9413 99.4 1.214 ! Near Maximum !

Thank you, again. And again, this is very helpful. On barrellength, the 338 is 24.4" so either 25 or 24" would have worked.

This brings up one more question on the R-17 powder.

I loaded up some 416Rigby with 350 grain (both TSX and banded solids) and used 94 to 95.5 grains of R-17, depending on cases. (REmarkably, some of the Norma 416Rigbys weighed 327 grain, and others weighed 340 grains, so I used 94 gr R-17 in the heavy cases and 95.5 in the light cases. The Chronograph seemed to give readings around 2750fps. When I tried to redo that, it was drizzling overcast and the Chronograph gave erratic high readings. So the gun is in Africa without proper testing.
What would Quickload say about those loads?

(It has plenty of other fodder, tested and safe, so this isn't a burning issue.)
[[fortunately, as a 416 Rigby, the real concern is whether these rounds will shoot to the same point of impact, or just how different from the other rounds. The Rigby (in CZ550 has lots of pressure capacity.]]

PS: the 416 Rigby is 25" barrel.

Looks like a pretty good match to your performance.

Cartridge : .416 Rigby
Bullet : .416, 350, Barnes 'TSX' 41686
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.750 inch or 95.25 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch or 635.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 73 76.40 2219 3825 30822 7290 95.4 1.583
-18.0 75 78.31 2269 4000 32698 7488 96.3 1.545
-16.0 77 80.22 2319 4179 34687 7677 97.1 1.509
-14.0 79 82.13 2369 4361 36794 7856 97.7 1.475
-12.0 81 84.04 2419 4547 39028 8023 98.4 1.441
-10.0 83 85.95 2468 4735 41400 8179 98.9 1.408 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 84 87.86 2518 4926 43915 8323 99.3 1.376 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 86 89.77 2567 5120 46587 8453 99.6 1.341 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 88 91.68 2615 5316 49424 8570 99.8 1.305 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 90 93.59 2664 5514 52441 8673 100.0 1.270 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 92 95.50 2712 5714 55650 8761 100.0 1.237 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 94 97.41 2759 5916 59065 8841 100.0 1.205 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 95 99.32 2806 6119 62704 8919 100.0 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 97 101.23 2853 6324 66585 8995 100.0 1.144 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 99 103.14 2899 6531 70726 9069 100.0 1.115 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 101 105.05 2945 6740 75151 9139 100.0 1.088 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 92 95.50 2806 6119 66102 8417 100.0 1.157 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 92 95.50 2570 5133 46182 8898 97.4 1.342 ! Near Maximum !

Thank you.

Of course, with the 416 Rigby one may ignore the SAAMI limit of 47k psi in a modern rifle. 60k is just fine and even conservative,
and it looks like 98grains would have
been within this, maybe even a tad more if Quickload tends to be a percent or two conservative.
I'll leave our 94's and 95.5s the way they are and just check their point of impact.

You've been a big help, though Mr Nyati may be upset. but buffalo are just upset by nature.

I have QL but have not run your numbers. The only thing I might add is that QL recommends NOT loading to over 90% of Pmax. Pmax for a .338 WM is listed at 62366 psi.
Bear in Fairbanks

417 Tanzan...I may not have described things with quickload quite the way I wanted to. As you can see with the 416 rigby you are actually running a bit faster than QL predicted. So in this case it is almost as if you have another grain or so in the case.
Regardless it is predicting about as close as you usually get. In "theory" above the data would indicate you might be running about 59k pressure right now. Not sure you'd want to bump that up much. If you get a situation where some moisture or a good layer of dust gets into the barrel during the hunt it wouldn't be hard to believe that pressure could jump another 3-4k just on that reason.
I'd say the load you have is just about perfect if it's accurate.
I am not saying that this is a totally accurate depiction of pressure in your gun....but it might be....and without a strain gauge is probably a "best guess" scenario.

Thank you Kraky,

No, I certainly didn't and don't want to bump it any higher. Actually, I think that the 2750 was produced with 96 or 97 grains of Rel-17 and TSXs. I loaded down in order
to approximate 2650-2700 which was my 'standard' load with another powder, not available when loading these others. But I was not able to verify any of the final R17 loads, and there is always the question of these crazy cases with 327 and 340 grain weights. They were bought in the same lot, but obviously from different runs by Norma. There is another complication in that the banded solids tend to allow more powder and and produce more velocity than the TSXs, at least according to Barnes. The current loads using R17 are all banded solids. So even though loaded down they may still be producing over 2700fps.

Another thought for comparison and calibrating "Quickload", it would be interesting to see its predictions for IMR 4350 and a 225 NP in 338WM.

the Nosler site lists
71.5 grain IMR4350 for 2882fps with the 225gr.,
which is a hot-for-calibre 4150 ftlbs.


I wouldn't expect to duplicate that and would guess that Quickload will predict a pressure around 65-67k psi, over SAAMIs 64k.
Such a comparison would help to see if the Quickload data is including the supposedly broader pressure curve of R17 over IMR4350.


but Nosler must have found that load under 64k in their rifle.

Cartridge : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet : .338, 225, Nosler PART SP 16336
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch or 635.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 57.20 2380 2829 34804 8088 93.9 1.535
-18.0 88 58.63 2436 2966 37188 8311 94.9 1.493
-16.0 90 60.06 2493 3106 39737 8523 95.9 1.448
-14.0 92 61.49 2550 3249 42463 8724 96.7 1.403
-12.0 94 62.92 2607 3395 45377 8913 97.4 1.361
-10.0 96 64.35 2663 3543 48491 9088 98.1 1.321
-08.0 99 65.78 2719 3694 51843 9248 98.6 1.282
-06.0 101 67.21 2775 3847 55401 9394 99.1 1.245 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 103 68.64 2830 4002 59192 9524 99.5 1.209 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 105 70.07 2885 4159 63250 9638 99.7 1.174 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 107 71.50 2940 4319 67598 9735 99.9 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 109 72.93 2994 4480 72263 9814 100.0 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 111 74.36 3048 4643 77272 9877 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 114 75.79 3102 4807 82659 9937 100.0 1.048 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 77.22 3155 4973 88459 9992 100.0 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 78.65 3208 5141 94716 10044 100.0 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 71.50 3045 4632 80584 9323 100.0 1.065 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 71.50 2785 3875 54953 9825 96.6 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

quote:

-02.0 105 70.07 2885 4159 63250

Thank you. It is interesting that Quikload does predict that an under SAAMI pressure (63250) can
produce Nosler's velocity 2882. they just disagree on the powder charge, where Quickload says that 70 grains will do it, while Nosler says
that 71.5 grains are needed. Both are undoubtedly right 'some of the time'.

thanks again for these overviews.

Dear Kraky and Doubledown and Bear,
Again, thank you for your help.

We will need to load up three separate bullets while visiting the US (without rifles),
338Wm with 185 TTSX, 250TSX, 250BX.
(This has been confirmed by the great terminal ballistics thread on big bore.) We have plenty of the ideal 225TTSX bullet but will want to bring back some other bullets to expand versatility in our 'small rifle'.

It also dawns on me that quickload can provide more than just a prediction of a particular load.
Can it easily help sort out options on various powders and temperatures?

For example, if someone wanted a load that produced 60k psi at 70degrees Faren.,
how many psi and fps would the load be at 120F?
We need to plan for 'hot' and 'sun', even though we're careful not to lay rifle/ammo out flat in sunlight.

I am thinking of choosing between three powders,
Rel17, (available)
Rel19 (hopefully available for us this year) and
Ramshot Hunter (available).

(We will load build-up tests for any chosen load, of course. We need to load the majority at "guess-max" in order to carry on plane before testing. We can easily re-download and take out grains of powder if testing shows either pressure signs or too-high velocity anywhere along the line. In a sense, its a little like buying do-it-yourself 'factory loads'. Though we can downsize the final outcome and adjust bullet seating.)

Can quickload help choose/predict an ideal load for <60k psi at 70F between the three powders
and three bullets?

185 TTSX in 338 WM (bullet is 1.35" BT, .432 bc .338)
[[expecting 3100 fps, manuals go 3150]]

250 TSX in 338 WM (bullet is 1.55" .425 bc FB .338)

250 BSolid in 338 WM (guessing 1.39" FB .208 bc, .338)
[[expecting 2650 fps in the 250grs., some amanuals go 2700+]]

Kraky already provided a great potential 'guessmax' load at 70F for:
>185TTSX, (25" barrel, mine is 24.4")
>Rel 17 71.54gr 3107fps 3967ftlbs 59263psi.
(this is within published manuals and also reasonable ftlbs for calibre. 338WinMag was released as a 4050 ftlb rifle and manuals gave up to 4200ftlbs, though today manuals usually suggest 3900-4000.)

What would happen to this load at 120F?
An important question, if quickload can help.

How much increase do the Rel19
and Hunter powders show
in 338Wm between a 60k load at 70F, then raised to 120F?

So
how many grains of Rel19 would produce
3100 fps for 185 gr TTSX at 70F
or <60k psi?

2650 fps for 250 gr TSX at 70F
or 'under 60k psi'?

Are things reasonably the same for the 250 BS?

(these all assume that 120F would remain under 64-65k psi. I suppose another benchmark would be to predict what loads produce 64k psi at 120F.)

Any help in such a 'limited ammo' situation is greatly appreciated.