so, i'm trying to "work-down" a load for steel challenge. any comments are much appreciated.

apparently, the power-factor for this competition/league is 125, which means that since i'm shooting a 200g bullet (L SWC) that I need a minimum velocity of 675fps, which is pretty dang slow imho.

i've been shooting almost exclusively a load that is about 900 fps as my carry ammo. putting aside, for a moment, the wisdom of having this much difference in competition and carry loads, is it feasible to get a velocity this low? at the range this weekend, almost everyone commented on how "hot" my loads were, despite the fact that 900fps is about halfway between starting and max loads. i.e. not really "near" max.

the point being, everyone elses loads were much lower. but... lyman cautions that "never decrease the (starting) charge as an increase in pressure could be encountered".

so... for a 200g lead SWC and the titegroup powder, is there a good load that will put me somewhere around, say, 700 fps? the lowest listed starting load i see is 800 fps, which is 4.5g, and it has a max of 1000 fps over 5.9g.

I figured I would start with 4.0g but before I do, is this safe? as much loading as I've done, this is the first time I've ever had a desire to go below a starting load.

That is a very very slow fps for any bullet. I find it to be very hard to not get a squibbed load. I think it will also depend on the gun too.

I`ve went to 4.2gr of Titegroup with a 200 gr LSWC in my 5" kimber and found it starting to get sooty and gave up. Velocity was sub 800fps but I didn`t crono it as I wasn`t really interested in vel only light recoil for play. I`m sure it was sub 800 fps though as 4.5 gr gives me ~810 fps. I use mine for carry and plinking and haven`t played with any other low velocity loads. I think if you look Bullseye or maybe Red Dot will get you in the velocity you want. Titegroup will do it but I don`t think it burns as clean as it should at these lower pressures. Check a few manuals and you should find a few listed powders with starting loads that fall where you want to be.

Keep in mind if you do find a low velocity load the recoil spring may have to be changed for a lighter weight one to keep your pistol running.

I don't think you woudl have a problem getting a 700fps round to go bang and with accuracy too. he trick will be getting your pistol to reliably feed & function w/ such a light load. You could also drop to a 185gr bullet @ say 800fps & be close to your PF. You can do this w/ 231, 700x, etc.

I've gotten a 230g down to 600 with a light charge of Blue Dot. Thing with reduce charges is partly case fill. Go slower than you think you ought and keep the powder charge somewhere around 6g (working down from known data, of course) and you might get what you want.
Is this bad advice?

Bwana it's never really safe to exceed the MINIMUM data for slow powders in rilfes & I would assume this true in handgun rounds too. It can detonate instead of burn, I don't think anyone knows why this happens but it has been documented. The .45acp case doesn't have a high vol. anyway. Target shooters for years have been shooting 3.8gr of the faster, 2310, Bullseye, 700x & beend doing fine. The idea has merit w/ the medium burners, Unique, AA#5, etc. The BD load though, not for me.

I get about 680 fps with a 200 grain bullet and 4.3 grains of AA#2 in my 45 ACP. This load barely cycles my HK USP. If you try it, fire a few test rounds before loading a bunch.

Don't know about Titegroup, but AA#5 is too slow for this kind of load. It will leave a lot of unburned powder grains. When I tried it, the unburned powder grains caused jams in my gun.

I think Win 231 would be an OK powder for this kind of load. I've used it for reduced loads without getting the problems caused by AA#5.

I would think it would be better to use Bullseye for your downloading. It's a much faster powder, should burn cleaner, and just might cycle your pistol... Maybe even withought a recoil spring change. Start at about 4.5gr, and work down.

Bullseye (target) shooters have been using 3.8 or so grains of Bullseye (powder) for years with a 200gr. cast lead bullet. Accuracy is excellent and velocity is around 675 or so, as I recollect. WW 231 is also good. Jus go with "target" loads in any reloading book. As someone said, may have to change the recoil spring. You might also try going down to 185 grain bullets. A lot of folks use these for the rapid fire stage.
peter.

quote:

Originally posted by taliv:
so, i'm trying to "work-down" a load for steel challenge. any comments are much appreciated.

apparently, the power-factor for this competition/league is 125, which means that since i'm shooting a 200g bullet (L SWC) that I need a minimum velocity of 675fps, which is pretty dang slow imho.
..........<snip>........

taliv,

Isn't the power factor of 125 a minimum power factor? Which means you need to at least meet it but it is ok to exceed it?

at the range this weekend, almost everyone commented on how "hot" my loads were, despite the fact that 900fps is about halfway between starting and max loads. i.e. not really "near" max.

I think they mainly meant that you were dealing with more recoil than necssary. But, I don't think they mean that you have to match the power factor level of 125 with your loads. Getting a 200gr .45 down to 675 fps is getting pretty slow. The slide may not cycle properly. IMHO, I'd say if you have a load that is somewhere around 750-800 fps that you are comforatble with, then use that.

BTW, 125 is pretty low. A .38 Special can easily make that level. 158gr x 800fps / 1000 = 126.4

Just my two cents worth....
-Bob F.

thx Bob. yep, it is, and as I mentioned, i was shooting for 700 fps (giving myself a comfortable margin for error of 25 fps).


i was mostly concerned with a warning in a lyman manual that said you should never go below starting minimums. so i figured i'd go to a respectible source of information, like an internet forum.

OK, no problem. I wasn't trying to be "preachy" or anything in my previous post. I just wanted to make sure you knew that you didn't have to go all the way down to the 125 power factor level.

I'd say there is some danger in going too far below stated minimums in the manuals with handgun cartridges. The danger is not "blowing the gun up" of course, but in possibly getting a bullet stuck in the barrel from not enough powder. Of course, that is probably more of a problem with a revolver than a semi-auto (as the slide probably wouldn't cycle to chamber another round).

-Bob F.

taliv, 700 fps or so is easy with Bullseye. But I think you're barking up the wrong tree for steeel challenge. IMHO what you want is the fastest follow up shot possible. IMHO assuming a 5" 1911 this will be more in the 800-850 fps range. I used 3.8 grains of Bullseye for Bullseye shooting. Even with a lighter spring, slide travel seemed like slow-mo. I use 4.5 grains of Titegroup for action pistol, much faster sight picture recovery. YMMV. BD

Greetings,
When shooting the steel challenge, our 45 acp loads were 5 grains of ww 231 powder, with a 5 or 6 pound wolf spring, and shock buffs. But that was when everyone used the 45, and the 38 super was not being used. Some tried using the 9mm, but did not fare too well. It was pretty impressive to watch Mickey Fowler, Dalton, Rob, Jerry and Angelo shoot. Brian Enos was a cry baby. I think he tried this approach to try to cover his lack of talent. He practiced with Rob all the time, but couldn't compete. Sure seems like a long time ago!