Hello group. I’m new to reloading and a first time poster to this forum. I’ve been lurking for a while, absorbing some wisdom and getting the lay of the land. I now have a good reason to post because I have question. Here’s the situation. I’m reloading .223 to run through my new (couple of hundred rounds) AR15. It’s a DPMS w/ stainless barrel 1:8 twist and chambered for .223 as noted on the barrel. The question regards checking the resized case length. I have a Lyman Cartridge Headspace gauge, the cylindrical type with cuts on the ends for high and low check points. I just resized a batch of brass and when I checked the length of the brass at the base end of the gauge I’m a bit over the high step. I measure something like .005 - .006 high. I set the die up so it was just touching the shell holder so I feel it wasn’t too low but I really didn’t stress over it when I set it up. The bottom line is, is this a significant issue and if so are there any recommendations on correcting this. Thanks for you help.

quote:

I set the die up so it was just touching the shell holder

When I FL resize I set the die such that there's a fair force on it by the shell holder as the camming of the press goes over center......I do this to get away from the "spring" of the press and if your press is aluminum, there can be quite a bit of "spring" to it. Even "so called Iron" presses spring under the force!

Pete,
Here are a couple of things to check.
1. Try a factory loaded round in your guage and compare the head space of factory round to your sized case.
2. If you have fired rounds that have been fired in YOUR rifle see if they will fit the guage before sizing and compare to a factory round and the sized case.
My experience with those guages in other brands - both Wilson and Forster, is they are more accurate than the average set of dies. They are a useful tool to a beginner though they are useful for anyone. I like the Stoney Point guage now sold by Hornady better because I form and load so many different rounds for old military rifles.
Other than that Vapo gave you a great answer.
All I can add is if his instruction does not work you can try two things.
1. Size a case and partially with draw it from the die, so you can just spin it 1/2 turn and resize it a second time.
2. If that does not work you may have to grind a FEW thousandths(like .002 to .004) off of the top of the shell holder and use it only for that rifle.

You should be worrying about your cartridge's headspacing length in relation to your gun's chamber, not to a headspacing tool which reflects some arbitrary industry standard that may or may not equal that of your gun.

Do your loaded rounds rechamber easily? If so, then your headspace is of at least adequate length.

Does the datum point measurement of your fired rounds greatly exceed that of your resized brass? If so, then you are pushing your shoulders back too much and will quickly run into incipient head separation issues.

But with an autoloader, you'll lose your brass pretty quickly anyway, so it doesn't much matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
You should be worrying about your cartridge's headspacing length in relation to your gun's chamber, not to a headspacing tool which reflects some arbitrary industry standard that may or may not equal that of your gun.

Do your loaded rounds rechamber easily? If so, then your headspace is of at least adequate length.

Does the datum point measurement of your fired rounds greatly exceed that of your resized brass? If so, then you are pushing your shoulders back too much and will quickly run into incipient head separation issues.

But with an autoloader, you'll lose your brass pretty quickly anyway, so it doesn't much matter.

Exactly

The Lyman Headspace Gauge is like Stonecreek says to verify that the case has enough headspace to chamber in an industry standard chamber. Your's may be different and probably is.

What kind of dies are you using? I know that with an RCBS full length die you have to adjust the press so in contacts the shell holder and then adjust it at least 1/4 turn more before it will push the shoulder back. That is according to their instructions. If you are not pushing the shoulder back then you could have chambering issues in your automatic.

But it usually take 3 to 4 firings before your case expands enough to have chambering problems.

Thanks for the replys. I'm going to check everything related this weekend. It's supposed to rain so this sounds like it will be a good time check things out. I really should have taken the time to adjust and check before I preped a bunch of cases. Typical newbie move. I won't do that again. I'll post back with my results. I appreciate the input.

quote:

arbitrary industry standard

Exactly wrong.....

The words "arbitrary" and "standard" are quite the opposite. The Lyman is a gauge of the industry standard. When brass does not fit the gauge properly it will not fit his rifle chamber assuming his chamber is correct.
If the ammo fits the gauge but not the chamber his rifle has an out of tolerance chamber.
If this is the case especially with an autoloader he should verify the chameber is correct with headspace gauges.
Since he is a beginner the gauge is an excellent visual tool to learn with.
I have checks both Wilson and Forster case gauges with chamber headspace gauges and they were right on exactly.

Hey ireload

Not exactly "Exactly wrong..."

Notice Merriam Webster even uses the phrase "arbitrary standard" in line 3a:

Main Entry: ar·bi·trary
Pronunciation: 'är-b&-"trer-E, -"tre-rE
Function: adjective
1 : depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law <the manner of punishment is arbitrary>
2 a : not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority <an arbitrary government> b : marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power <protection from arbitrary arrest and detention>
3 a : based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something <an arbitrary standard> <take any arbitrary positive number> <arbitrary division of historical studies into watertight compartments -- A. J. Toynbee> b : existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary -- Nehemiah Jordan>
- ar·bi·trari·ly /"är-b&-'trer-&-lE, -'tre-r&-/ adverb
- ar·bi·trar·i·ness /'är-b&-"trer-E-n&s, -"tre-rE-/ noun

I can not speak for stonecreek but I took his statement to mean that the standards are set by someone deciding what to make it rather than by the irrefutable laws of physics.

Anyway, your statement

quote:

When brass does not fit the gauge properly it will not fit his rifle chamber assuming his chamber is correct.
If the ammo fits the gauge but not the chamber his rifle has an out of tolerance chamber.
If this is the case especially with an autoloader he should verify the chameber is correct with headspace gauges.

and stonecreek's are not necessarily contradictory in that the chamber actually sets the...for lack of a better word..."standard" for that rifle. True that if the case does fit the gauge but not the chamber then the chamber is not standard (arbitrary or not) but also true that this does not create a problem if you know how to size and form the cases to fit the chamber.

Semantics, I know, but I believe any reloader would be better served to figure out what is going on in his own chamber rather than relying on a gauge to pigeonhole his rifle with all the rest.

Well I see that my request for information stirred up some responses and some slight controversy. Good answers from all. Here’s what I found when I went back through the sizing procedure last week. It was pretty simple and was, as Vapodog suggested;“Tighten up on that thing†Exactly what I did and everything fell into place. I was a little hesitant to crunch on the shell holder but that was all it needed. This was not a big adjustment and it doesn’t take much to go over center. I’m pretty careful about how I work on things and wasn’t sure how much muscle to use. Usually less is better but not in this case. By the way, I never had any chambering problems and have been shooting mostly my own newish brass. No cases were really long to begin with and all that I ran after the adjustment fell right into spec. Thanks all for taking the time set me straight.

quote:

Semantics, I know, but I believe any reloader would be better served to figure out what is going on in his own chamber rather than relying on a gauge to pigeonhole his rifle with all the rest.

Read his second sentence very carefully.

"I’m new to reloading and a first time poster to this forum."

The gauge will give him a visual reference frame to go by. This is an autoloader, not a bolt gun.
A bolt gun will work well with a line to line fit. The autoloader will not. You can't crank the bolt closed on anything that is just close. It has to be sized enough for the action to close itself.

quote:

It was pretty simple and was, as Vapodog suggested;“Tighten up on that thing†Exactly what I did and everything fell into place.

Hey guy.....we get things right once in a while!!

quote:

Originally posted by pete556:
... I’m reloading .223 to run through my new (couple of hundred rounds) AR15. ...

Hey Pete, The semi-autos can be tough on Cases due to snatching them out of the Chamber while there is some residual pressure trying to hold them against the chamber. Normally Case Life is a good bit shorter in semi-autos than when the same case is used in a Bolt Action.

If you happen to Resize them too much, it will shorten the Case Life even more due to Case Head Separations. It is really best to avoid them, even in Bolt Actions, but especially in Semi-Autos.

If you do not Resize them enough, then you end up with Feed Problems and/or having difficulty getting the Bolt to close into battery.

So, it is quite important that you achieve the most Resizing possible " without " creating any more Headspace than absolutely necessary. But, there will be some Headspace for the semi-autos to function properly. It is a Balancing Act.

With that in mind, I'd strongly encourage you to learn how to check for Insipient Case Head Separations with the "L-shaped" Feeler Gauge. Have a Chisel Edge on it and once you begin to Feel-the-Groove it is time to toss those cases.

And I can highly recommend using Once-Fired Military Cases for longer Case Life. They are a bit thicker, so you also get an additional benefit - the same Velocity by using a bit less Powder.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

So, it is quite important that you achieve the most Resizing possible " without " creating any more Headspace than absolutely necessary. But, there will be some Headspace for the semi-autos to function properly. It is a Balancing Act.

Very well stated HC.

Another tack you can take with regard to head separations is buy a very large lot of once fired .223 brass all with the same head stamp. Preferably from a police range or such. Shoot them 2 or 3 times and toss them. If not maybe by that time you will have loaded enough that you will get a feel for what is a good die setting for your rifle.
Some of those case gauges will accept a fired case. If yours does, compare a fired case to one of your sized cases. Your rifle may function OK with the shoulder pushed back only .002 more than a fired round if everything is kept clean.