I'm just about out of my supply of primers. I have been shooting CCI 250 Magnum in my 416 rem, and CCI BR-2 match primers in my 260 & 30-06.

Now, for the amount I shoot my 416, I can buy mag primers in 100 packs down at the store, but I will buy a 1000 pack of primers for my 260 & 30-06. I will also be buying a 7mm SAUM, which uses slow burning powder, like RL22, from 60 grains on up to 65 grains, depending on the bullet weight. Does this require a magnum primer? I hunt sometimes in cold weather, like around the 0*F degree mark. Would a magnum primer be needed in this temperature?

Also, do you think it is worth the extra cost for the match/benchrest primers from CCI & Federal? I've been using the CCI BR-2, and I guess it has been working for me, but I've never done a comparison between them and a regular primer.

I guess my main question is can I use a standard primer in a 7mm SAUM? This would make life a little more simple, and save me some money.
Thanks in advance

[ 06-26-2003, 09:54: Message edited by: todbartell ]

I think you answered your own question. You need both for your other rifles. Touch off a few dozen of each and compare the results in your new 7mm.
Buy one flat of each and have at it!

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

The only difference between the benchrest primers and the regular primer is lot to lot consistency. A benchrest primer is likely to give you less than 12fps of difference in velocity, while the standards will give more of a spread. Which is important if you are shooting target/Benchrest, but I doubt anyone will know the difference with a hunting load.

[ 06-26-2003, 11:16: Message edited by: DanD ]

Keep a box of each around. It will cost about $6.00 initially and try them ALL. In my experience there has been no set rule when it comes to primers, hot or cold weather.

WLR for all would be my choice, providing no ball powder. It's a good warm standard primer that works very well in my rifles with (all that I can fit)up to 64gr of powder.

I agree with SteveR, load some up with each and try them at the range.
In my experience I have found the benchrest primers to improve accuracy of my loads with the .280 and the .300win mag. Primer doesn't make a huge difference but changes velocitys and group size a little.
In a few other calibers non benchrest primers provided better accuracy.
I use large rifle magnum match primers from Federal for my 25-06 .280 and 300 win mag. Great results in all of them.

This question seems to come up over and over: What is the difference in "magnum", "benchrest", and "standard" primers? Answer: Mainly, the label and the price.

The actual briscience (force, heat, power, whatever you want to call it) of the "magnum" primers from some manufacturers is actually less than that of "standard" primers from other manufacturers. By the same token, if a manufacturer's quality control is what it should be, then all of their primers are "benchrest" grade.

You should use whatever brand or designation of primer seems to work best in a particular load. I have NEVER had any problems with dependably igniting large quantities (as much as 98 grains) of very slow ball powders (as slow as surplus WC 872) with "standard" primers. In my handloading experience (39 years and graying rapidly), I have found that the presumed need of "special" primers for ball powders or large cases is more myth than reality.

That said, don't toss out your "magnum" primers. They usually work just fine. But do try your slightly more economical "standards" in all of your loads before dismissing their use out-of-hand.

Take a look at the data on my reloading data pages...

On the far right of every powder and bullet weight combination there is my primer of choice.

Why is it my primer of choice? Because fo the 10 different primers I tried in that combination, it was the most accurate.

I have never had ANY problem igniting large quantities of the supposedly "impossible to light" ball powders with any standard primer, and that includes hunting loads when the temperature has bee 55 below zero.

I am getting ready to post a mythology behind primer thingy on my pages...should be up in a day or three...

(It's up...go to Table #3 and read "Primer Myths")

[ 06-27-2003, 01:12: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

With load adjustments, you could use magnum primers for all of the rounds you outlined. If you want to go the other way and want reassurance, prime several of your magnums with standard primers and put them in a small cooler with a chunk of dry ice for a while. USING GLOVES, fish the rounds out and fire them. (I've never done this, only heard of it) If they light off, then you can use standard primers in all your stuff. I have never found using BR primers to be a significent plus in hunting ammo.

At one time I used every primer known to man. I would wake up at night fretting about primers and which was best, then worry about the powder, case etc. Now I use only Fed 210M and 215M. All my rifles are hunting rifles and I will hunt with nothing less than A rifle that will shoot a one hole group. If the rifle will not repeat a one hole group five times I will not keep it in my safe, realizing I have good and bad days myself. My experience after years of shooting and thousands of rounds, the best of my groups have come with these two primers. Therefore I removed that factor from my worry and am much easier to live with. My loving wife never knew the reason for those bad moods. Good shooting.

[ 06-27-2003, 00:24: Message edited by: phurley ]

A few months ago I purchased a box of 1000 primers that were marked magnum. I was doing load developement in my 375H&H and 7SAUM. The powders I used were RL15, 4064, H380, and IMR4350 in the 375. In the 7SAUM I used RL22, IMR4350, H4831 and XMR3100.

About a month later I gave my Dad a box of the primers to try to duplicate my loads. He asked why I wasn't using magnums. When I went home I discovered that my box marked magnums had regulars inside. I contacted the manufacturer and they confirmed my findings. The company had great customer service because they replaced my primers and bullets that I used to the tune of $100.00.

Anyway what I found was that when I used the magnum primers I didn't have any difference in velocity over my chrony. It didn't make any difference in either gun, and didn't have a difference in the spread either.

I live in the NW and the days I did the testing it was 50 degrees so I can't comment on temp making a difference but as far as I'm concerned there isn't any difference. I will however continue to use the magnums just to be safe.

Thanks for all the replies.

I will buy a couple hundred of each and do a little testing. See if there is any diff. in group size and velocity/extreme spread.

Thanks again.

Benchrest wil tend to be the "coolest" of the primers. The old boys back in the 19th century figured out the cooler primers were the most accurate. Regular primers will suit most of your needs. I use them with machine gun surplus SLOW powders year round with no problem.
The magnums give a more sustained spark, rather than hotter, meaning more duration of the ignition heat required. Tailor to your powder. If a regular primer will ignite well, stick with it. The Magnums will usually have a bit of trade off for the accuracy end.
Then again, it will be such a small amount, it won't matter. Think of it this way. If you shoot deer at under a hundred yards, and your rifle will only group into four inches at that range, chances are you will only miss your point of aim by a maximum of two inches. Think about it. Who cares? Shoot the one that works best for you.

Stonecreek -- I shoot rifles for a lot of people. Bring me one of yours, any chambering you want, with brass, bullets, die and I will shoot yours. It must be bore scoped and on paper, with no gunsmithing problems. I will take it from there, with my reloading. I will use my powder and primers at no cost to you. I do all my shooting at 100 and 200 yards on my private benchs. If I cannot get an inch group I hope to be able to tell you why. It may even shoot a one hole group, it all depends on the barrel. After I get the group, you can shoot the rifle, then we will move the group where you want it. I shoot three days a week, however if you visit we will shoot until you are satisfied, or know what is wrong with your rifle. Fair enough. Good shooting.

[ 06-27-2003, 17:29: Message edited by: phurley ]

I use a CCI-BR2 primer in every rifle I own - 22 CHeetah MK 1, 7mm mag, 300 win mag, 375 H&H AI, and have never had ignition problems. It does tend to get a little cool around here for deer season, sometimes. I have hunted and shot in temps as low as 20 below zero - no problems at all.

I have yet to have a CCI-BR2 primer not ignite.

Don

phurley: I assume you define a "one hole" group as all shots touching one another (as opposed to all shots through the same hole). In that case, you could get a .50 caliber to shoot a 1", one hundred yard group that was a "one-holer" (although it would look to most people like two holes).

But a "one-hole" group with, say, a 6mm Remington, is quite a bit smaller -- at least smaller than .486". Getting all of one's hunting rifles to shoot into one inch is a great deal different than getting them into a group of less than two calibers.

I think that a two-caliber standard for hunting rifles is one that cannot be met the majority of the time and that there would be a lot of pre-64 Winchester 70's, Browning Safaris, Sakos, Griffin & Howe Springfields, Mannlicher-Schoenaurs, and many other high-quality hunting rifles that would have to be relegated to the scrap pile if this standard were applied.

You're more than welcome to do it your way, and I don't doubt that if you cull enough guns and loads that you can assemble a battery of rifles that will shoot into two-calibers. But that is an impractical and unreachable standard for most people on this board, and even more unreasonable for the typical hunter who's not on this board but who strives to maintain a reasonably accurate rifle.

Stonecreek -- I agree with everything you have said, and it was well said. ------ With standard chamberings I judge my one hole group on five shots and all of them touching each other, the same for Magnums except three shot groups. ---- You are quite right, my one hole groups with me .257 Wby or 7mm STW are quite a bit smaller than my .416 Rem. Presently I am shooting the following of my own rifles. .22 mag, .257 Wby, 7mm STW, .300 Win, two .340 Wby's, two .358 STA's, and a .416 Rem. Yep, that .416 group is a lot bigger than the smaller rifles. That is why I don't both to measure the group, I just refer to it as a one holer. ------ Scopes have a lot to do with those smaller groups, they are just like barrels, each has it's own personality. ----- The original point I wanted to make, is that with the two Federal primers this hunter can acheive excellent accuracy. I am not a bench rest shooter, only a hunter, who wants to be prepared for that shot of a lifetime if it presents itself.----- You refered to rifles that have great value as a collector item. That I am not interested in. I have a .300 Win that is a post 64 Model 70 that has been to Alaska and Colorado many times, and is a one holer consistently for me, my son and grandson, who is 14. That rifle is beatup, scarred, dinged, and has never seen a gunsmith, but will stuff 180 grain Nosler Partition is a ragged hole at 100 yards while going 3100 fps. By the same token I have a Model 70 in .358 STA from the Winchester custom shop that has had everyting "tweak" wise a gunsmith can do to it, and it will stuff 250 and 270 grain North forks in one ragged hole, when I have a good day. ---- I want to add here, somedays I cannot buy a one holer, other days I can shoot one with all my rifles, and it may take me more than a few months to achieve the best the rifle will offer. ----- This is all a labor of love for me, I just like to shoot, that is why I made the offer to shoot yours. So many people stop at the one or two inch group, and that is a fine hunting group, not to be sneezed at by me or anyone else. For me, I like the challange of the one holer. Good shooting.

[ 06-27-2003, 23:55: Message edited by: phurley ]

Based on a test I did a week ago I'm not so sure about the need for magnum primers. Loads for my 338 WM use 73-75 gr of IMR 4350 depending on the bullet I am using. The laods had been worked up with CCI-250 Magnum primers - the groups were nice sub inch for three shots. So I tried some using the WLR primers and same bullets and loads. The accuracy went from very good to spectacular - I could not believe how tight the groups were - clover leaf. The velocity over the chrono actually was 15-20 fps faster - didn't record the std deviation but the groups sort of said it anyway - however some reloading manuals say they see better results with magnum primers - Personnally I don't think its that big a deal - I have a feeling that large rifle primers have plenty of reserve ignition capacity designed into them to handle magnum size cases - now cases with 90-100 + gr capacity it might be a different story.

phurley: Well said. Hard to take issue with how you're handling your own rifles and ammunition. Good Hunting!

So, which company makes the best primers? Surely they can't be made all equal.

phurley only repeated Townsend Whelen: "Only accurate rifles are interesting".
As to primers, I have seen some difference using powders like 760 but for the most part I use WLR and forget it.

Todd:

Having hunted in Minnesota and Northern Wisconsin for many years before relocating to Oregon, I have seen 20 below up in a tree stand and out moving also.

Although I use a lot of different primers, if I had to settle on one primer for all ( but the 223,small rifle primers) I would settle on the Federal 205. I think it give good consistency across the board. I have a few failures from other primers, and don't know if it was the fault of the primer, or me handloading and accidently getting with oil from my fingers on it ( not that is suppose to matter, but I think it does).

I use it is 300 Win Mag loads ( 83 Grains of H1000) and in 338 loads also. It has performed well, even tho not listed as a magnum primer.

As a side not, a little playing around with the lowly 30/30, I found that one I have that is old and not accurate, did turn accurate with H 4350, and surprisingly using CCI Mag primers and also Mag Pistol Primers. ONe is hotter than regular primers, and the other not as hot. However both turned in a lot tighter groups by using regular primers. Have no idea why, can't even speculate.

However that is what I saw with it. Just passing on the info.

todbartell --- For me it is Federal. Good shooting.