I have an interesting problem I can't quite figure out.

I have a (brand new) 400 Whelen Improved (40 degree shoulder) that I am prepping some cases for.

I can easily fire cartridges in it IF I take my once fired 35 Whelen AI brass, and run it through my 400 Whelen dies (CH4D), and then shoot.

If I take my virgin Quality Cartridge brand 400 Whelen brass (which comes as a unformed 30-06 parent cylinder), form it in my dies, trim it to the same length...the empty brass will chamber and extract (with the bolt) easily.
But now if I take that same 400 Whelen brass, charge it and add a bullet (either a Hornady .411 or a pistol .410), it won't chamber.

I have even tried seating the pistol bullet flush to make sure it wasn't the bullet jamming up against the lands.

On inspecting these cartridges (made with the 400 Whelen brass), they appear to be slightly out of round with the pistol bullet in them.
I've tried seating the pistol bullet in backwards too, no change.

By the way, the 35 Whelen brass shot in this rifle will reload (with my dies) perfectly.
I'm using the Hornady 300 grain .411 rifle bullets with this brass (because the bullets are inexpensive for load work-up), and they shoot very well.

Obviously one solution is to fireform the 400 Whelen brass with Bullseye, filler, and a parafin plug. I suppose that is what I will end up doing in the meantime.

I have a .411 custom neck sizer die on the way from Hornady too.
(By the way, custom neck dies at Hornady used to cost about $40. They are now $82 plus shipping.)

Suggestions?

Garrett

Are you loading compressed charges? They can cause some case bulging. It's possible that seating the bullets is pushing the neck down enough to cause some bulging. Are you chamfering the case necks? Perhaps a slight bit of lube inside the neck, i.e. graphite, might help.

Ricochet,

Those were exacts thoughts as well. I have had that (buldging case) happen with 458 WM. Possibly the more "straight sided" cases can have this tendancy when over stuffed.

The second thought is that the case neck thickness is greater on these cases, when the bullet is seated it expands the neck too much not allowing them to chamber. Check diameter of neck with each case after loaded and see if there is a significant differance. Hopefully this is not the problem as neck reaming may be the only cure. ugh!

N.G. Good luck and for my education, please post your results when you get it figured out.

BigBullet

Thanks for your suggestions.

The brass being too thick at the neck has already crossed my mind.

The powder charges are not compressed...even with the pistol bullet seated almost flush with the mouth there is still powder rattle.

Tomorrow I will fireform some cases using the Quality Cartridge brass. I'd like to use it because of the "400 Whelen" headstamp.

It's an interesting cartridge so far....if you're into nostalgia it's great. If not, there's lots easier ones to reload.

Garrett

Okay, I think my problem is due to the thickness of the brass at the neck.

I fire-formed some cases using the QC brass with 6.5 grains Bullseye with couscous filler.
It formed nice shoulders on the brass.

I could then load the Hornady bullets quite evenly into the formed cases.
The empty brass chambers easily.
The completed cartridge won't.

Fortunately Forster makes a .410 neck reamer, so that's my next step.
I'll fireform, neck-ream, and then load.

What could be simpler???
(Meanwhile I'll shoot the reformed 35 Whelen brass for fun. There's this pesky coyote that keeps coming into the yard....will a 400 Whelen be enough gun???)

Garrett

Well, you COULD "smoke" a couple of the rounds with a candle, just to see where they are hanging up or rubbing when you try to chamber them.....

I would also double check and make your the seater die is not set to crimp the neck. To much crimp can force the shoulder out.

Might want to do a chamber cast and measure the neck diameter, too. It may be on the tight side for the cartridge specs.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't think it's the chamber dimensions, since the 35 Whelen brass fires easily, and reloads perfectly.

The QC brand brass does show abrasion at the case mouth with the bullets seated, but not when it's empty.

I ordered a Forster inside neck reamer, and thought I would try that route first to see if it alleviates the problem.
Since the reamer is slightly undersize (.410....and I'm shooting .411 bullets)I'm going to size the cases first, ream, and then load (instead of reaming before sizing).

I should have the reamer within a week.
I'll post here about the results.

Garrett

Like Snowwolf said
I had a similer problem with my 416 Taylor when I first started loading it. Turned out I had set the crimp to just touch on a case that was a tad shorter than the rest and the crimping was making the rest of the cases bulge at the shoulded, stopping the round short. Resized 35 whelen would come out a bit short, but the "proper" brass may be full length.

That may not be the problem. Have you tried measuring the case mouth thickness with calipers?

Snow Wolf, NB, I will try your suggestions this evening.

I'll use the QC brass that I fireformed with Bullseye, and back off the seating die to make sure there is no crimp.

Thanks,
Garrett