For those of you who are thinking about using nickle brass, here's an excellent reason not to. I bought a new set of Lee Collet dies in .280, here is the mandrel from the collet sizer die after only 10 cases were sized. I almost couldn't get it out of the die it was so scratched. The nickle brass pushed a ring of metal off the mandrel up into the top of the die wedging the whole affair in the die tighter than a drum and nearly ruined the mandrel. If it scratches hardened steel this easy, it ain't going in my gun. Here's a pic of the mandrel.
That is exactly what happened to a new 7 Mag collet die I used to size new nickel brass. Dags of plating inside the case neck caused it.
The other 94 cases from the batch just got a projectile pushed in without sizing and fired at the range - it got rid of the dags inside the neck but made the brass really expensive.
It was the first and last time I bought nickel plated brass.
Posts: 323 | Location: Back Home in Aus. | Registered: 24 September 2001
I had a similiar problem with a Lyman 357 TC sizer and Ni brass. I sent the sizer and some damaged brass to Lyman. The replacement sizer produces the nicest brass I now have. I tend to think it was a defective, dirt imbedded TC collet. - Lew
Posts: 66 | Location: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: 19 August 2001
Well, seeing as how 470NE cases are abit on the spendy side, I thought I would try to help them enjoy a long life. I want to get more than just a few loadings out of them.
Posts: 2924 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 23 December 2002
I have no problems with nickel brass in my 300 Weatherby LEE dies. Anyone who wants to be safe instead of sorry I will gladly take your Federal 416 Rigby brass off your hands.
Posts: 11 | Location: Del Norte County, CA | Registered: 22 November 2004
The use of nickle brass has always been an issue with me also. It will scratch the living hell out of the inside of your sizing dies. For that reason alone I never use it. About the most positive thing I can say is, it is pretty. Best wishes.
Nickel plated brass is good for straight sided cases such as pistol stuff. But for bottle neck rifle cases, leave it alone.
I heard years ago not to mess with it. I tried it out not believing the stories of the plating flaking. Till i saw for myself the necks on some 280 brass with visible flaking. Its gone now and I dont use it.
Posts: 85 | Location: Tex | Registered: 29 January 2002
I use nickel-plated brass all the time, and so far I have never had a problem like yours on my Redding dies. There may be some nickel plating on the outside of some brass out there, but I have never seen it. Before I size any of my brass, regardless of plating or not, I always brush the inside of the cases to make sure they are clean.
By the way, any of you wants to get rid of your .338WM nickel-plated brass?
Posts: 2448 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 May 2002
I let a friend of mine use my RCBS X die to size some of his brass. When I got it back I started to size some of my own brass and noticed that there were scratches on the outside of my necks. I looked in the die to find that I could see scratches and grooves and at the top of the grooves there were piles of metal. I called my friend and asked him what he had used my die for? He told me that the only thing used my die for was to resize his nickle brass. He bought me a new Redding FL bushing die and threw away his new nickle brass. Happy Hunting, slygunner
Posts: 53 | Location: Utah | Registered: 27 September 2004
I just loaded some new Remington 22-250 nickel plated cases.
I just touched the case mouth to the inside neck expander to make them round, then deburred the inside and outside of the case mouth.
BUT the nickel was nearly as hard as the the deburring tool!
I also used a bronze brush spun by a drill to clean the inside of the necks.
Still these scratched the mandrel for the lee collect dies. Of course the scratches don't matter as the case necks on fired cases don't rub on the mandrel.
Point is that this nickel is not soft.
If fact, I once looked for the hardness of nickel and found it could be quite hard. Maybe in the 150,000 psi max range, but it's been a while since I looked.
JerryO
Posts: 231 | Location: MN. USA | Registered: 09 June 2000
Ray, please spell it METALLURGY. The hardness of electrolytic nickel is 22-35 Rc.Steel dies are a lot harder than that[Redding makes theirs 62 Rc ! ] and carbide dies harder still....If they want to, let them live in the land of myth. I'll stick to science and the real world !!!
Same problem here with 300wsm mag I thought it was me. everytime I seat the bullet I have the same problem you are having shaving the copper off the bullet. It doesn't do this with regular brass cases. But since most of my cases for the 300wsm are nickel I have no choice but to keep using them. I also use lee dies, I wonder if this will stop if I upgrade to redding or rcbs dies?
I think I have 50 pieces of 0nce fired and resized and primed 7mmMag nickle plated brass around the gunroom somewhere,.....you want it......send address and I'll figure postage and you can send a MO for the postage!! Cases are FREE!!! GHD
Posts: 2495 | Location: SW. VA | Registered: 29 July 2002
Quote: every time I seat the bullet I have the same problem you are having shaving the copper off the bullet
All you have to do to solve this problem is to chamfer the inside edge of the case's mouth. However, the soft and dry coating of barnes XLC bullets will always be shaved off by all cases, regardless. Also, any case that has not been properly chamfered, more than likely will shave copper off the bullet, since copper is softer than brass.
I have never had any problems with nickel-plated brass and my Redding dies, perhaps because I always brush the inside area of the cases with a nylon brush. Things like these will cause die scratching:
1. Sizing cases that have not been cleaned
2. Not cleaning the die.
Dust, sand, brass shavings, etc. could get trapped in the sizing lube that stays inside the die. Copper shavings could get there if for whatever reason you chamfer or trim a case, and then run it through the die without cleaning. I not only clean the cases and the dies, but always cover the press and dies with a clean cotton laundry bag to keep dust away from them.
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Hoping that some of you can put this subject to rest, I would recommend talking to die manufactures, and to beging the dialog, please read the following information from Redding:
Case scratching problems can usually be traced to the reloading area and some of the equipment that may be in or near it. A few guidelines that will help are listed below:�
1. Keep the abrasive dust and particles from spent primers cleaned up and away from all equipment.�
2. If you have a small bench grinder, it should be kept away from the reloading bench, preferably in another room.�
3. Loading on the range, especially in windy or dusty conditions, can introduce cleanliness problems that can be hard to manage.�
4. Case tumblers are another potential source of problems. While the cases may come out shiny, they will actually have a thin film of abrasive residue on them. Cases should be thoroughly cleaned and/or washed before going into the dies.�
5. Nickel plated cases are often associated with die scratching problems. Small particles of the hard nickel plating may be present from trimming and/or deburring operations and can find their way inside the dies.�
6. It is important to understand that foreign material does not have to be hard to cause problems. Brass chips from trimming and deburring can find their way inside the resizing die, where they can literally be welded to the inside of the die under the extreme pressures generated by full-length resizing. When this happens, the "brass against brass" action will gall the cases, leaving an apparent scratch. The condition will rapidly worsen as brass continues to build up.�
�
Cleaning Your Dies
We are often asked, "How should I clean my dies?" The answer is to use the same procedures, with the same equipment and solvents, that you use to clean the bore of your rifle or handgun. Use the same diligence and effort as well, since the brushing and copper solvents will work well on any brass deposits that may have accumulated inside the die.�
Another question that comes up is, "Can I do any internal polishing?" Again, the answer is, "Yes, with care!" The best arrangement is to chuck the die in a lathe, after stripping it down and removing the internal parts. Use #400 or #600 wet/dry auto body paper wrapped around a small wooden dowel. Keep the paper wet with a thin petroleum product with the consistency of WD-40 or kerosene. Using this method, you will easily be able to remove any foreign material or brass build-up from the inside of the die.�
Since our dies are heat-treated to approximately 62 Rockwell C, you can polish for a long time without changing the internal dimensions. Do not use ordinary sandpaper or anything coarser than #400, as you will scratch the interior of the die surface and void the lifetime warranty.�
It is very important to give the dies a thorough cleaning, after the polishing operation. They should be thoroughly washed, flushed, and wiped several times. Again, just as when cleaning your rifle, check the dies for cleanliness with several wet patches and then lube and dry patch them.�
In summary, the name of the game when it comes to avoiding scratched cases is cleanliness! A little attention paid to keeping your reloading area clean, and periodically cleaning your dies, will insure that they give you years of trouble-free service.
Bill, just go on thinking the way you're thinking. No ammount of reason or truth will change your mind. I appologized, you turned it down. So be it!
If you think like the ones on here that think nickel is hard enough to scratch your dies, then don't use it! I will use it, even seek it out when ordering brass. I'm tired of trying to lead the blind out into the light, do what ever turns your crank!
Posts: 596 | Location: Oshkosh, Wi USA | Registered: 28 July 2001
Sure has been a lot of theorising going on here since I last looked.
The fact is that new nickel brass can have some 'overflow' inside the case neck. It can make lumps of nickel which create an extremely rough inside surface in the neck. When pushed onto the mandrel in the Lee Collet Die the lump is trapped between the mandrel and the case neck. Something has to give - you don't notice the effect on the lump of nickel, you do notice the effect on the mandrel.
It is not a quality issue with the Lee Dies, it is a quality issue with the Nickel plated brass.
Either get the lumps out of the case neck before you size them or use proper brass cases.
I have used the Collet dies for several years in various calibres and have only ever had a problem with new nickel coated brass.
Posts: 323 | Location: Back Home in Aus. | Registered: 24 September 2001
billt......YOU told us that those 38 Special cases you bought at a gunshow scratched YOUR RCBS carbide die, to the point, that you just use it for "crap cases", and have a new one for good brass cases.......go back and "learn to read" your own post...... I bought 62 pounds of 38 Special nickel brass at a garage sale.....I sized it with my old RCBS carbide die, purchased in the early sixties....No scratches.......I have resized literally 10s of thousands of nickel cases with that die, in the 40 years I've owned it....NO scratches... Nickel cases just don't scratch dies....Sand, dirt, particles from a bench grinder, maybe some types of particles of broken glass, yes.....But nickel? No..... Grant.
Posts: 336 | Location: SE Minnesota | Registered: 15 December 2003
Here is a quote from the latest Lyman Reloading handbook.
"The disadvantage of plated cases is that the nickle will sometimes flake off during firing/resizing cycles. This flaking can mar loading dies."
Page 44 of 48th edition lyman reloading handbook. To all the people who say it isn't possible....I guess people who are in the business of reloading long enough to have a 48TH EDITION reloading manual don't know what they are talking about.
Neverflinch: I have not written any reloading manuals to date but I have done a whole lot of careful reloading and I will repeat for your sake (or anyone else that may care to take advantage some day for some reason of nickel plated brass) - carefully lubricate new nickel plated brass and make sure you chamfer it correctly and I am sure you will have no ruined dies! No nickel plated Rifle barrel bores! No copper shavings from ones bullets nor any other maladies that now and then get "reported" when nickel plated cases are used and become suspect. I will repeat - I have used nickel plated brass for many many years in many different dies and Rifles and I am happy with them! Hold into the wind VarmintGuy
Posts: 3067 | Location: South West Montana | Registered: 20 August 2002
My post was to those who say nickle CANNOT scratch a reloading die. Well, considing Lyman has been in business longer than the people on this forum have been alive, if the say it can scratch a reloading die, I will believe them. People make mistakes, but on something like this, they have obviously seen it happen, and I doubt it was because they put some dirty brass into the die. I think they know what they are talking about.
"When I was done cleaning and resizing it my Carbide sizer die would scratch virgin new unplated brass cases."
Old Model 70,
I'm not sure if it's your reading, or your comprehension your having the problem with, so I put what I said in quotation marks to help make it easier for you. I said the die SCRATCHED THE CASES, not the other way around. You can argue until the cows come home that it was dirt, grit, or the Blessed Virgin herself, I don't care, just don't sit there telling us it doesn't happen. I utilize the exact same procedures, on the exact same press, in the exact same location, when resizing Nickel as I do with unplated brass. This has ONLY occured with Nickel plated brass. As Neverflinch has pointed out to you and others that say this can't happen. The Lyman 48th Edition Manual says it can. Several people who have posted here with the same problem, including myself say it can and DOES happen. If you want to keep your head in the sand, I could care less. I've never been in an airplane crash. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Wake up. Bill T.
"The only flaking I noticed with a set of Lyman dies,(that I no longer have,)was their own chrome plating flaking off......Grant."
Sorry, wrong again. I have an older set of Lyman dies as well. They were NOT chrome plated. They were NICKEL plated. It's obivous you can't distinguish the difference. Bill T.
