Today i was testing some loads for a 7 rem mag,
useing 150 gn sierra sbt and H 4831 and starting at 62 gn working up to 65 gn , starting vel was
2800 and finishing 2914 fps.Now i did get some good groups,all were under 1 inch but i was not happy with the velocity.I was hopeing of at least
3000fps.now i know i can use other powders and
get the vel i want.I read a mag the other day that showed the most popular cartridges sold
and the bullet weight that was sold with each of them.
99%30.30=150gn
95% 270=130gn
98%30.06 = 150 gn
98%300 win mag=150 gn
98%7mag and Weatherby wag=150gn
Now in my understanding you dont gain anything
out of a mag till you get to 165 gn and up,So iam
not going to load any thing less than 162 gn now
or in any of my magnums above 277 dia .My 270 or 3006 will take care of the rest.(Why pay money for that mag and shoot 150 gn bullets when youre getting less than magnum preformance.Basicly the 270,3006,7mag 300winmag shoot 150gn bullets
with in 100 fps of each other, That is if you belive what the CHRONY puts out over the numbers
on the factory ammo box or the balistic flyers
that ammo makers put out. As for me the CHRONY
dosent lie .

I'm with you Len. I wouldn't shoot lighter than 160 gr. bullets in your 7mm mag. (or maybe I would go down to a 150 gr Barnes)

That is surprising that so many people shoot 150gr bullets in the 300WM. I would never use anything less than a 165gr (unless for varmints) in the 300Mag. And the only bullet I plan to use that is only 165 gr. would be the solid copper type like a Barnes. If I couldn't get the Barnes to group well enough, then the lightest lead bullet I would use for deer, antelope, or Elk would be the 180gr. There is just no advantage to going "light" from what I can see.

Reloader Len,

It sound like you have a pretty slow 7mm Rem Mag rifle. What is your barrel length and what source did you get your data from.

I load and use the 7mm Mag alot and have come to realize it may be the single best deer round made for shots out to 400 yards.

My load is with the 140 gr Ballistic Silvertip using Rl-19 for a velocity of 3365 fps out of my Ruger M77MkII Stainless/Laminated sporter.

When I started loading for this rifle I selected the starting load in the Nosler #4 manual which is 61.5 gr RL-19 which was supposed to develope around 3170 fps. Over the three different chronies, ranging from cheap $100 tools to $500 tools, velocity from all three were eithin 15 fps average and were right at 2875 fps.

I figured something had to be wrong with the gun until I say Nosler was using a custom, tight chambered test rifle instead of a factory gun.

I started loading heavier charges under the same bullet and checking velocity until my velocities matched the 3320 fps max that the Nosler manual lists for Rl-19 and the 140 gr bullets. Instead of the 65.5 gr load they list for max, I was at 70.0 even and pressures seemed very acceptible, in fact I fired the same case 8 times with no loosening of the primer pocket.

I added 1/2 more grain and got an average velocity of 3365 fps with 3/4 inch groups.

Agian I have fired these loads in cases with up to 10 firing and they are still tight so I am not concerned with high pressures.

Point is that if you load the magnums the way they should be they will out preform and standard round.

Will the 280 Rem hit +3300 with a 140 gr bullet, not even close.

As far as loading bullet lighter then 160 gr in the 7mm Mag, I find it silly to limit such a versitile round so.

A 280 Rem will hit right at 3200 fps with a 120 gr bullet in a 24" barrel, the 7mm Mag will easily do 3550 fps with same bullet and same barrel length.

The 280 will do 3050 fps or so with the 140's and the 7mm Mag will do +3300 fps.

With the 150's the 280 will do mid 2900's, the 7mm Mag will hit the mid 3200's.

So while the heavier bullets do very well in the magnum cases so do the lighter bullets.

Trajectory is not much different but energy is quite different.

I have harvested many dozens of deer with this load in the 7mm Mag ranging for 140 lb does to 350 lbs bucks from range anywhere from 25 yards to 450 yards and have yet to have any reason to change loads for deer. Never have I lost a deer and very rarely have I needed a second shot to finish game.

Just my opinion, I do not think you are loading the 7mm Mag to the level it should be. If you load the 7mm Mag to 280 levels then the 280 will match it. If you load it to top levels, the 280 does not even compare.

Good Shooting!!

50

I kind of a agree & disagree. For me, the only reason to go magnum is to shoot heavier bullets faster than from a "standard" caliber. I can get close to 3000fps w/ 150gr bullet in my 23" bbl. .280. In my last 7rem mag. I could get 3150fps/150gr NP w/ handloads using slower powder than H4831, but I have to use quite q bit more of that slower powder to get that 150fps. If that's worth shooting the magnum to you, then go for it.
You can better your current vel. by switching to RL22 or IMR7828. For me, I like the 160gr bullet in the various 7mags. You should be able to get 3000fps w/o straining anything.
As far as what "most people use", remember that most hunters shoot deer & they usually use a lighter weight bullet for that. I like heavy for caliber bullets, so my list would be:
270=150gr
7mm=160gr
.308-=165gr
.30-06=165-180gr
.300 mags=180-200gr
.338=225-250gr (excepy my .338-06=210grNP)

[ 03-08-2003, 00:20: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

Thats what I was going to say...Try Rl-19 before you give up on the mag. As far as the use of light bullets....I try as most do, to match the components to the game I intend to hunt. This load is my idea of a fine white-tail load. Its not very fast but sufficient and I feel there is no need for a heavier bullet. If I need it to break bones it will. Good Luck with your decisions len.

What game are you goimng to be hunting with said 7mm mag. If it is moderate range small deer then you are correct, you will never see the advantage. Loading 160+ gr bullets to shoot 100lb deer is not what you want. A 270/130gr bullet is all you really need.
The 7mm mag really shines when the range is over 300 yardsand the game is over 250lbs. Then a 160 gr bullet at 2900-3000f/s will serve you well. We encounter these situations often here where you are not sure if game will be 1000lb moose or 200lb deer in the same hunt.

Ragards

BR

You do actually gain something out of light bullets in magnum cases. In the '06 vs. 300 Win Mag it's about 2910 fps vs. 3280 fps (that's for a standard Federal load). That's -7" vs. -5.6" at 300 yd's with a 200 zero according to the book. Not a hugh amount but every little bit helps. Having said that, I don't shoot the 150's in my 300 but stick to the 165's which it really likes. I shoot 180's in my '06 most of the time because it happens to like almost any 180 gr. bullet and I use it for shorter ranges than the 300. I normally use 150's in my 308.

You do have a very slow 7mm mag or you are not loading it to it's potential.I have had no problem getting at least 3100fps with 150gr bullets in any 7mm rem mag that I have loaded for.As far as bullet weights I have used 140 gr bullets in all of my 7mm's(7mm-08,7mmremmag,7mmstw,and 7mmultramag)and have taken elk,moose,deer,goat,sheep and pronghorn with no problems at all.

Because it goes BOOM! so much bigger???

I like my 300WinMag because I can push any 30cal bullet faster than with a 30-06. It's a small edge, but I like it. I'm also of the school that one shouldn't shoot 150gr stuff with a 300WM. Might as well get a smaller cartridge to do that.

For big game hunting, I personally feel that 180gr is a good starting point for my rifle. 200gr is my middle ground and for a real thumper I can load a 220gr bullet. Sure you can feed it 150gr stuff but it's been shown here and elsewhere that you don't gain much, in fact downrange you're trailing the heavier bullets.

I also just tried a 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, with which I hope to "disappear" some varmints soon. And I have a great 168gr Sierra Match load that shoots 1/2MOA.

But then we live in a market driven world and if 99% of the people want a 150gr bullet in their Magnums then I better stock up on the 220gr offerings before they're out of production.

Fiftydriver,
350 lb buck? 200+ deer are unusual, 300 lb deer are legends, but 350 lbs? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to admire you as a fantastic hunter, or as a better BSer than me.

I guess I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum in thinking when it comes to magnums. I see no reason whatsoever to handicap a magnum like the 7mm rem mag with a 160 or 175 gr bullet. The sole reason to go with a magnum is better trajectory and long range performance, in my opinion. Going to a heavy bullet essentially nullifies any advantage your magnum has over a standard round. I often hear of how heavy bullets offer better long range performance, but anyone with access to ballistics software can quickly see that the only time a heavy for caliber bullet offers any advantage is in extreme long range shooting, 750 yds or greater in the case of a 160 gr 7mm bullet vs a 140 gr, or 180 gr 30 cal vs a 150 gr. I don't shoot at game at 750 yds so I don't see any reason to handicap myself in that regard.

If I'm shooting a 7mm then it's a 140 gr bullet I'm shooting, If I'm shootinga 30 cal then I'm using a 150 gr bullet. If you need more bullet weight than that then you need a bigger caliber.

Don't get me wrong,iam not giveing up on the 7 mag
i have some good loads for lighter bullets.
140gn nosler bt at 3200fps and 115gn bullets
around 3350fps.these are loads that i loaded
for friends and they work well,what i should have put in my post was that for deer in my area
a mag is not needed and when i hunt bigger game
the7 will work fine ,the heaver bullets have
more ENG and Vel at any range than dose the lighter.and after the post i did get 3060fps
with RL 22,I had to go back on what i said
I couldnt sleep without that 150 pushing 3000fps
But i think for deer size game ill stick with
the 3006 it will take care of anything out to 300
yards just fine,and larger game iam going to use
165 gn up in my 7mag and 300 mag.
Thanks for all the info thats what AR is all about
Reloaderlen

Old Fart,

I live in central Montana and while it is not the average, there are plenty of deer here that will top the scales at +300 pounds on the hoof.

Most I would agree run in the 200-225 pound range for a mature deer. That is the key here, I am talking about deer that have reached the age of +5 1/2 years of age, not the 1 1/2 year old average that is harvested across the nation.

In the fall of 2000, I was able to harvest my heaviest whitetail to date. It was a 24" wide 5x5 which scored in the low 150's and had a live weight of 323 pounds.

This last season I harvested a 4x5 Mule deer buck that tipped the scales at 340 pounds.

In the last two seasons, my brother harvested a 6x8 mule deer that weighted 352 lbs and a 29 1/2" wide 4x4 that weighted 335 pounds.

Just to prove this is not always the case, in 2000, my wife harvested a 165" 6x6 whitetail of 7 1/2 years of age that only weighed 195 pounds. This was the last weekend of the season and he had lost alot of weight from the stress of the rut. In pre rut condition, I would say this buck would have run in the 230-240 pound range.

Call be a BSer or fantastic hunter, which ever you choose, the pictures are in the album and the heads are on the wall.

Another idea how big these grain fed deer are here in Montana, my 2000 buck's neck measured 26" around just behind the ears for the shoulder mount form. The three mulies I mentioned ran between 26-28 inches behind the ears.

Good Shooting!!

50

"Magnum"...what a wonderful word. Really brings out the "macho" in a man.

There is no need for a "magnum" anything for any animal found in North America! The only "need" is for the shooter to tell his buddies that he shoots a "105mm Super Blow 'Em Up Maxi-Magnum".

I've hunted just about every state in the lower 48, and have taken animals from prairied dogs to elk, at ranges of 35 feet to 704 years without using a "magnum" caliber. What is most remarkable is that most were taken with a 6mm Remington and a .243 Winchester with Sierra's little 85 grain bullet, at a miserably slow 3,000 to 3,100 fps.

[ 03-08-2003, 12:30: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

Len, I can't tell you what would work or is safe in your rifle, of course, but I use H4831 with a 140-grain bullet in my 7 Mag. Ruger No. 1B with 26" barrel, and I get 3375 FPS. That load shoots 3 rounds into 1" @ 200 yards!!

Fiftydriver,
Sorry about that, I was thinking dressed weight. Make no mistake about it however, a 300 lb deer is big regardless (about the same size as a spike Elk).
The largest bodied buck I have ever seen a picture of weighed 296 lbs dressed on a certified scale. He absolutely dwarfed the hunter standing next to it.
What a relief. I would hate to think there is a bigger BSer than me.