are they worth the money? anyone done any tests such as loading rounds with standard dies and same load and rifle with the comp dies? i'm not a target shooter but for varmint rifles(17rem, 222remMag, 22-250, 6mmRem). thanks!

I shoot nothing but Forster dies now because of side-by-side testing of with my RCBS dies. I went from 1.5 groups to .5 and less. Thats my experience and I'll never go back.

I should think Magnum61's experience would probably be the exception - reducing group size from 1.5" to .5" is a lot... Still, if you have decided to get anal about your reloading, a 1st class seating die is a good place to start. Realisticly, all you can probably hope to improve is the runout produced in the seating operation, and how much this might improve your resulsts depends on a bunch of factors.

I have used both Forster and Redding Competition seaters, and will continue to do so in the future, just because it is an easy way of introducing more quality into your reloading process.

- mike

Streight line dies like Wilson, I think, and a lot of the B.R. crowd, the most accurate type dies that you can get. Quite a few people make this type of die, but the Wilson are very reasonably priced and seem to be as good as most of the more expensive dies.

Do the expensive seating dies have the same type seating plug as the standard type seating die. I seem to be using more and more of the long VLD bullets, A-Max, etc. and they do not fit well in the standard seating plug. The seem to bottom out, resting entirely on the tip. This can not be good for run out or overall seating depth. Would a Redding or Foster competation die correct this. In what ways are they better??

quote:

are they worth the money?

IMO.....no

RCBS Competation Seater die.

It's easier to use as there is a sleave that you drop the bullet into and you don't have to hold it while you're raising the die.

I really need to buy one for seating my 22/250 as those 50 grain cotton pickin .224 bullets are small.

Here's a picture whith a .308 just afixin to be seated. I usually go about half way and the back off, turn the cartridge around half way and finish. And for that hex screw for the lock ring. A #8 pellet will allow it to seat very good.

To start out with hunting loads, I think that buying a set of Forster type dies for $50 has a lot more advantage then to save $15 dollars and buy base RCBS dies. It just makes your reloading more concentric and uniform all around. "To each there own," though.

For example, My friend bought some RCBS 338 Ultra MAg dies and the Bullet seater varied by .020 in OAL length and the run out was horrible even with the "third of a turn" press technique.

Thats how I justified Good dies for myself, that was the last stand.

I think that a person should buy the best dies that he can afford and are available to him. I really like Forrester dies, Redding dies,and pacific dura chrome when I can find them. While some folks go all out with benchrest dies I don't think that you need to that far unless you want benchrest quality reloads, IMHO
Larry

You will not find a finer die for seating 17s than that RCBS. Those little bullets are a bitch to keep line up. Vickerman has one similar.

Bill I have the parts to do 17 and 20 for mine. Less than half the price of a new die you can get a new sleeve and seater plug from RCBS. I am loading three cases right now with it 2 17s and a 20. If I get a 14 up and running I will be having a custom sleeve made.

I have custom dies that produce a ton of run out, I have a set of used RCBS that make nice ammo. If they make you feel better buy them. I would check your run out before you spend a bunch of money. You might not need them, straight is straight.

I think Blueprinted said one key thing, check your runout. It is worth it IMO to buy a concentricity gauge and see what your dies are really giving you. I have the Sinclair gauge and use it often. The main thing I like about the 'custom' or 'competiton' micrometer seating dies like the Redding, Foster and others is the ease of adjusting for seating depth. I really like the new Hornady dies with the optional micro-adjust seating stem. There basic seating die has the sliding sleeve, which is a key component of the other dies as well.

Also, Bill Mc's post might confuse you, that ain't what a lot of Competiton seating dies looks like now if you get one, if that is a current RCBS it is really cool--don't have one of theirs, but got many Reddings and Forsters--there isn't a cut-away where you can drop a bullet in--but his sure looks cool--Did you make it that way Bill, or is that the available style from RCBS like that? It ain't what you get if you order one currently from Redding or Forster. I like all my RCBS stuff, I guess I need to try a RCBS comp seater!

Regards--Don

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum61:
To start out with hunting loads, I think that buying a set of Forster type dies for $50 has a lot more advantage then to save $15 dollars and buy base RCBS dies. It just makes your reloading more concentric and uniform all around. "To each there own," though.

I agree, not only because of the seater, which is truely excellent. I also prefer the design of the Forster FL sizing die. If you choose to use the die with the regular expander, on the Forster die this is positioned really high in the die. This ensures the case is as well supported by the die as possible, when the expander is pulled through.

When you look at a Forster FL die from below, you'll think the expander is right at the mouth of the die, but that is a retainer nut for the decapping pin. You actually have to disassemble the die to see the spherical expander.

And even better, once you have the Forster FL die, Forster will modify it for you (for $10 plus shipping), to allow you to use it without the expander! The die neck is honed to whatever diameter you specify. This is a GREAT setup, if you are looking to size without runout...

I agree with Don about the use of a concentricity gauge. It allows you to check the quality of your reloading operations in terms of runout produced. As mentioned, the Sinclair gauge is a good one. RCBS and Neco also make suitable gauges.

- mike

Fish, I bought that RCBS die 2 years ago to load for my CZ 550 Varmint. No modifications other than putting a small lead shot in front of the locking screw. That window makes it real to start seating that bullet.

I keep thinking I should check the runout but when I do my part, I'm shoting less than 1/2 inch at 200 yards.

Now I just need one for that 22/250.

I see there are also competition shell holders, do these really help??

just got back from cabelas and checked out the RCBS competition dies, Man they are very very cool, that pic is really what the RCBS die looks like, It has a sleeve that rides up the die that holds the neck and the bullet together, then it makes contact with the seater plug It looks like a lot better way of seating a bullet, I think I will start getting these dies from now on, I wish I could trade the ones I have for them.

I have RCBS Competition Seating Dies in 270, 30-06 and 300 wm. They are expensive and when I have the money I upgrade in the next most used caliber. Next will be the 338 wm.

They make seating the bullet a lot easier. Just drop the bullet in the side into the moving collet and it will start it straight. The adjustable dial at the top is very useful and the gradations on the side are fairly accurate when adjusting for the last few thousands. No more unlocking the seating stem at the top and tightening back down like with the regular seaters.

You can tell the difference when starting the bullet because when it starts straight it goes in easier.

Can't definitively say that it puts out straighter ammo, but it sure is a helluva lot easier.

With the Lee Collet Neck Sizer, Redding Body Die and RCBS Competition Seater my runout is always less than .004" and mostly around .002", so I stopped chasing concentricity. Sleep better at night!

And the RCBS Competionion Die comes with a "special shell holder"

Very tight and concise fit.

Gotta get that one for the 22/250.

Cowboy comp shell holders adjust your headspace. You use them to bump the shoulders back or leave them a bit long. You can buy a shim set for 10 bucks and be done.
The RCBS die is the older one. They came out with a new model that is about the same as the Redding. They still make both. You can load any any diameter bullet with the correct extended shell holder which Redding and RCBS make. I can load 17Ackley hornet and switch to 17-222Improved just by changing shell holders. You can go from 22 Hornet to 22/284 by changing shell holders. The die is only specific to bullet diameter not case. RCBS will sell you the parts to change bullets diameters for less than half the cost of another die. I have them for 17, 20 and soon 14 and 22.