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And, can you minimize them with a waiver of some sort? I reload for my hunting partner and just want to make sure that I am ok to do so. Also, what if he uses my equipment? Wouldn't I still be liable? | ||
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I have been reloading for folks around here for 30 years.So far the only problem I have had was with 2 of my own rifles.They were hurt when working up loads,rem extractors suck.Other than that I will not load for a**holes. | |||
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IMO many folks homeowners policy includes a personal liability clause that protects you from normal suits.....you might want to check yours. If the issue is merely a blown up gun then the cost might run $1,000 with scope etc.....no matter how this turns out, you'll both get over it some day! If there's personal injury involved such as loss of an eye and hospitalization for a spell.....you're probably going to lose no matter what.....especially if someone later discovers the powder used in that 7mm Mag was actually bullseye. Make sure your homeowners will cover this....or some other personal liability insurance. Remember....there's two costs.... 1. defending yourself in a lawsuit 2. paying off a lost lawsuit Even if you win the lawsuit.....you can find yourself thousands in arrears to some attorney to defend you! I'm a believer in assessing a cost benefit ratio.....and the cost might be serious.....ask yourself.....what are you gaining? Show your buddy how to do it himself.....this takes you out of the loop in almost every instance! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Probably not an absolute protection, but when fellows ask me to reload, tell them to come by and will show them and they can load some as well. At least one you know and if the round is defective/blows up, etc. well, it was most likely the one he loaded!! I am sure there would be legal attacks which would defeat this policy, but it would sure give your attorney some talking points so to speak. Absolute way for no problems is don't do it. martin | |||
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We live in a very sue-happy society. Ask yourself if satisfying your friends is worth losing your entire life savings over. Remember, it may not be your friend that will be sueing you....but someone else that was injured as a result of a mishap. Your friend may give someone else those reloads to shoot in a rifle other than the one you reloaded for.....you have zero control over those reloads. With the premium ammo on the market today there is no longer a real need to hand taylor a load for others. At the end of the day, only you know how far you can afford to stretch your neck across the chopping block. | |||
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I think you could best describe the liabilities of reloading for others, if you do it as an individual as: All you have or hope to have. Course that is from someone who only plays as a knowing person, not someone who actually has any legal knowledge. As Judge Galbreath(sp) used to say . . . I will defend you to your last nickel. Don't limit your challenges . . . Challenge your limits | |||
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wow thats a good thing to think about.I personally won't load for anybody else, I shoot alot and have a hard enough time keeping myself in ammunition. If I was concerned about this I would consult a lawyer on it. If a word is spelled wrong its not my fault its the computer's | |||
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I did it for 10 years about 30 years ago. I still count my lucky stars I had no issues. Friends or not I no longer load for others. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I will not load for others, nor will I shoot anything loaded by someone else. I still have part of an AR-15 upper under the skin about 1/4" from my eye from a reload put together by a buddy. No I did not sue him, cost me an AR15 Match Upper and some copay money on my insurance, but I should have known better. | |||
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Liability in a civil suit is based on the perponderance of the evidence...in layman's terms 51%. Therefore if you are just slightly more at fault than the other person involved you are liable. I think the liability is great and wouldn't do it. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One other small issue.....in some cases (especially if you charge a fee to recoup the cost of components) you can be breaking the law as it could be construed that you need a manufacturer's license. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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When I think about that Question, I ask myself what kind of person would ask someone else/a friend, to reload some ammo for him. Why doesnt he just go buy his own reloading equiptment? Probably the same type of guy that asks to borrow tools and doesnt return them or breaks them. | |||
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In short it is a stupid financial decision to reload or let others use your equipment to do so.... Period end of story no matter how you spin it. Too many things can go wrong that you have nothing to do with that will put you in peril. | |||
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Not wanting to start anything here Boss as that is not what I am intending..... I would take my friends and family under my wing and teach them proper reloading techniques at my bench. From there, they could either get thier own equipment or continue to use mine...with me there... I look at it as passing on the tradition of reloading!!! If someone wanted me to load for them, they had to be there with me when I did it....and I would make sure it was a 'safe' load before even starting! With that said, I have only reloaded one specific round for a good friend, (I miss you Old Man), that was not present at the time...it was fifty rounds for his -06 that were tried and true.....he had this combination for years and had just quit reloading and asked if I would do a run for him in exchange for the dies...I already had the powder and primers...he supplied the bullets, cases and recipe..... From that, 3 good friends have set themselves up and both my cousin and his nephew have set themselves up..... Two of these folks have worked with others to get them into reloading..... So you ask what liabilities are there....well I have had two of the wives give me the evil eye but, with what is passed on, I think it is worth it!!! ______________________ Smedley  ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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What the law requires is that we give due diligence in our actions that may cause harm to others AND and that we are subject to "fair" compensation for any harm done. That's simple to state but, in application, it pretty much means we are responsible for whatever a jury agrees with and the compensation is what ever the jury says it is. Any waiver of responsibilty varies by state but it's usually not worth the paper it's written on in a court. People have rights under the law that they cannot sign away, we also have duties under the law that cannot be by-passed. No competent reloader is going to make dangerous ammo. But, if your buddy gets eaten because the .243 ammo you made for him didn't stop the bear that ate his azz, or if he jammed his muzzle in the mud before firing the round that blows his head off, his grieving widow will likely get a chumk of your azz because the jury wants to help her out. You may positively prove your ammo had no defects but most juries will see that she gets a huge chunk of you if she wants it! Meaning you really don't have to do anything wrong to lose a wrongful injury or death suit because of the sympathy vote; that is THE basis for most of the outrageous suits we hear of. And even if you "win", it will cost you a bundle to defend yourself1 You may remember the famous case of a granny lady pouring her own hot McDonnald's coffee on her own crotch while driving her own car and then getting a huge award for scalding that thing. MickyD had no real fault but she cost them a bundle in lawyer fees and an evantually (greatly reduced) injury award. Allowing others to load on your tools gives you a good layer of defense but it still opens you to claims you didn't "teach him correctly". And remember, it isn't the "law" you will have to convience, it's the jury seeing a worn, tearful, ragged wife holding onto two small, fatherless children who need help. Juries are us, "the people", and prosecuting attorneys in such suits seek those who are lowest on the income and intellectual scale because they are most likely to be emotionally driven. I reload for other four (family) people, people whom I know and trust very well. | |||
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Thanks guys. All valid points. I think I will take your advice and only reload for myself. It sucks that you can't even help people now days without being at risk from the "justice" system. | |||
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I don't reload, two of my freinds do reload. One gentleman is retired and loves to shoot so he gives me .357's and I give him lead and the empties and powder. He also helps me reload for my rifles. I buy dies, powder, bullets, and primers and he shows me how to put them together. He has reloaded 60 or so different loads for my 257 r and I have tested them to get some good loads.The other freind is going to help me load some rounds and he lives in town. I am slowly getting some supplies to do my own reloading but it will be awhile. It is nice to have a mentor to show me correctly how to do it. Thanks, Jon | |||
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As an exclaims adjuster of much tort liability experience, I do not & will not reload for anyone else- except an immediate family member. The risk & potential liability are simply too great. You could, depending on whether you have the assets of a Rockefeller, lose everything you own- or ever hope to own. And, you do not have to even be liable. As I heard one of the top California tort liability lawyers say: "Give me severe injury & significant monetary damages and I will create liability." He let the defense attornies worry about liability. You may, or not, have coverage under your homeowners (or other) policy- but most people cannot interpret a policy to make this determination; you would need to take it to a tort attorney for that determination. Reloading for resale to a friend, or otherwise, creates a different liability due to the commercial element. As for it being a close friend or acquaintance, money has a way of altering relationships. You can quickly discover that an individual is not the friend you thought he was. As well, wives, widows, children are not necessarily part of that relationship. The most I would do is point the individual in the right direction in getting the right equipment (including loading manuals, etc.)and getting started in learning to reload his own. | |||
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Oh, and one more thing, forget about waivers; Jim C has it right. With them you cannot give up your legal right nor can an adverse party escape liability. | |||
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On rare occaision, I've been asked to reload for others as well. I respectfully decline. As others here have stated, I wouldn't shoot someone else's handloads and I just don't want to take the risk of letting another person shoot something that I loaded. I trust my loads in my weapons and prefer to have only one person to point the finger at .... (me). Psalm 109:8 "Let his days be few; And let another take his office." | |||
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MDF and Smedley have the best solution if you really want to help some friends out. Have them show up at your reloading bench and show them how to produce their own loads or take your equipment over to their place. Make sure that everything is set up correctly and then have them pull all of the handles while you are watching very carefully. Explain to them the liability issues and why you are having them reload the rounds. I would not loan my reloading equipment out to novices so make sure that you stay in possession of it and supervise it's use at all times. You can introduce someone to successful reloading this way and save them a lot of rookie mistakes. ******************************************************* For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction. | |||
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