HI
Last month i baught a party of hornady 220 gr,because it was cheap and now i'll try to load them for my 3030 rifles. i've discovered that bearing surfaces of these bullets are not longer than traditional 170 grainers and i can load them with upp to nealy same case capacity.My question is if you have a safe and moderate loading data for these bullets "220 gr Hornady"i 3030 then please tell me about ,because i can't find a reloading manuall with data for heavier than 170 grainers.
best regards and merry christmas
danny

Danny,

I am a little reluctant to answer this, as the critics are just waiting to pounce on things like this, It is what they live for.
However, Dam the Critics. Just use your head and work up slowly.

Since before you said you are shooting this in a Savage 24 F, strikes me as this should be a stronger action than a 30/30.

However, I think you partially answered your own question when you pointed out that the bearing surface of the 220 grain bullet is not much more or even equal to, that of a 170 grain traditional 30/30 slug. That is why I originally used W 748 and worked up.

Working up is the key, but I would conclude that any powder with a mid burn rate equal to W 748, such as RL 15, H380, IMR 4895, 4064, 3031( even), or slower powders such as RL 19, 22, Or 4350, 4831 ( Hodgdon or IMR) would be good candidates to try out, and work up from 28 to 30 grains starting load.

In a single shot, if your barrels throat is long enough to take a 220 grain just seated to the cannelure, you are even looking at less pressure generation. With the above powders, 35 grains of W 748 is the max load and gave me a velocity of 2100 fps out of a 20 inch barrel Marlin and Winchester, and 2200 out of a 24 inch Winchester Model 94.
The Marlin is the 336 Stainless one, one Winchester with the 20 inch barrel is vintage 1966, and the 24 inch Barrel is a 1999 production Model 94.

Although no one uses it, no one also loads 220 grains in 308s and 300 Savages. However, for the short range a 220 is good for, either case will function well with it. Some might complain if it was intended in a Savage 99, but in a bolt action I don't think anyone who knows what he is doing will complain about high pressure potential.

With the high weight of the bullet, and its high sectional density ( .330, and equal to a 160 grain 6.5 mm bullet with a SD of .328) strikes me the 220 is going to do some serious penetration even at low speeds. No one questions that with a 160 grain 6.5 bullet, but then the same guys call you and idiot if you are doing it in a 30 caliber! All of our so called experts. Don't think it would be my first choice on a big bear ( grizzley or polar) but if a 170 grain bullet can be used on Moose and Elk, I have trouble believing a 220 grain bullet will have less penetration and terminal performance.

One can think outside the box and still use their head.

I don't think a 220 grain in a 30/30 is any more 'Nuts' than some that were loading 250 grain Barnes Originals in 308s or 300 Savage Cases.

Keep us posted on how your results turn out. In a single shot, life should be a lot easier than in a lever action.

Hi seafire
merry christmas
living in scandinavia i can only find norma or vihtvoury powders. i usualy use norma 202 for loading and due to the weak construction of my savage 24"the rifled barrel is only soldered or point welded to the under barel which locks by only one lock far down long from rifled barrel" i load always about 2 grains under max and it works well for me with 125,150 ,165,170 grain. my goal is to test heavy slugs to see if penetratuon will improv. i don,t dare to use N 202 behind the 220 gr and it is the same for win 748 .these powders are too fast to use for this purpose.i may began to use vv 540 or 160 ,but i don,t know where to began. i have no reference.i hope winchester or rem try to load 3030 with heavier bullet"200 gr" for brush hunting, i am sur 3030 loaded with 200-220 gr @ 2000 fps would be a great game- getter much better than conventional 170 gr slugs.
regards
danny

Danny,

Merry Christmas! I do not use the same powders you have available in Sweden. I don't use V V powders, due to eratic availability.

You certainly can try slower powders, but I really don't think they will give you the velocity up to 2000 fps. However, even at 1800 fps, a 220 grain slug is going to penetrate, even if the bullet does not fully open up.

This morning, I played with loading dummy cases up with the 30/30 winchester. I was surprised but a traditional 180 grain RN had to be seated deeper than the 220 grain did. The 180 has an ogive closer to the bullet tip than a 220 grain does.

Load data in a single shot pistol such as an Encore, shows loads with pointed bullets. I am sure a 220 will kick too much in a handgun, but I would have more faith in your Savage's construction. The key is working up. 30/30 brass is fragile, so the case will give up the ghost before the Savage will.

Before I seated the 220 grain down until I had the overall cartridge length of a 170/150 grain loaded round. In making a dummy round, I found that it would chamber fine for single shot with the bullet seated to just the cannelure. This would be lower pressure than with the deeper seating.

When I did this before, I loaded up "fragile" 30/30 cases 20 times with this load, and had no failures or loosened primer pockets. And that was in 3 different rifles, they were shot and reloaded.

Albeit limited or specialized application, that is why I handload to test the upper and lower spectrums of some of my firearms. Still the efficiency of the 30/30 case with the heavier bullets is not far behind a 30/40 Krag, if any at all.

I am going to work this up with some different powders and just keep track of the results. I will probably either post them, or send them to those that request it by email. I am not really in the mood to deal with all the ArmChair experts we have frequenting here, spouting off what they read in their Reload manuals, instead of having any positive or negative field experience to base it on or to share.

Another example of the books showing different than what I am finding out is loading up 180, 200 and 220 grain bullets in a bolt action 30/06 and using H 4831 powder. One can load that case with more powder than listed in the books, and still get loads that do not given any pressure problems that the brass is revealing. Velocity potential also bounces up quite a bit with the heavier bullets. RL 22 is loaded to higher velocities and no one questions that, as it is published in print.

Because of bearing surface of the bullet, evidently, a heavier bullet can be loaded to faster velocities at times than a lighter bullet, that has a higher bearing surface when loaded.

As you found out, a 220 grain bullet has a bearing surface closely equivalent to the 170 grainers.

Have a happy Holiday.

Thats interresting but why are you doing this? It has no value in hunting that I can see..A 170 gr. Nosler FN partition will out penitrate it or a FN BarnesX will for sure, and the 220 will probably just drill like a solid at 100 yards or further...

Merry christmas Ray
You are right about 170 gr nosler they penetrate like a 3006 and sheding the frontal part all the time,but 150 gr BX starfire PMC they don't oppen att all in medium soft or hards( wet or dry paper and boone). the 170 gr PMC cowboy loads att 1300 fps are outpenetrating all the other loads and are excellent for shooting att low flying claybirds!i wanted just shoot out my cheap hornadys and see how they preform in medium.At nearly 2000 fps they could equall the old 303 british which has downen all manner of games in Africa.
regards
danny

Well, thanks Seafire, your words are wise and followed with kindness....

I understand the need for experimentation and if he has an excess of 220 gr. bullets and wants to experiment then thats OK with me...

I was just giving a differerent point of view to a conversation that he instigated and I think we should all do that...That makes for a good thread.

However, I wonder if there is enough velocity to even start the expansion in a bullet thats designed for much higher velocity..It is not something I would risk on a hunt, I feel obligated to bring up that point...It is a balistic nightmare to say the least as the power space in such a small case would be taken up by that heavy bullet.

If, in fact he gets 2000 then he shooting a twin to the 30-40 Krag, that uses a much larger case..If he does get 2000 it should be a neat load but again only if he can find a bullet soft enough to expand properly at 100 to 200 yards...Another important factor is will the twist of the 30-30s handle a bullet that heavy.

I had, at one time, a number of Kynoch 190 gr. 30-30 ammo and never did find but one Win. or no Marlins that handled them well at all...The one that did was a trapper model that shot everything well and a Win 54 that shot 2.25 inch with them and thats pretty good. For what its worth.

Which 220 gr. bullet? Hornady, Sierra...?

Hi Hobie
it was hornady 220 gr which i mentioned.and a dummy load with crimping just over the canulair has nearly the same oal as the factory loaded rounds.
regards
danny

Hi again
The main problem is I love 3030 and if ican,t get 2000 fps and 220 gr with safe pressure maybe I'll rechamber one or both my 3030s i own to ackley improved to get around 200 more fps with same presure!!!
danny

Hello there:

This is interesting to me, shooting the 220 grain bullets in the 30-30 cases. I shoot them in my T/C 30-30 Super 14" and love them. They are hard hitters and accurate. Now, I'm shooting them in my 300 Whisper and also my new 30/223. These are all barrels on T/C Contender frames. The heavy bullets will really take down the rams at 200 meters, no problems.

I guess I just love to expermint, too. The last few years I've been big time in "reduced loads", using both cast and jacketed bullets in just about everything I shoot. That's a lot of fun and enjoyment, too. One good thing about our sport, so much to do, so little time. The thing I strive for the most; is accuracy and also I'm tuned into economics. Being wise to economics, can shoot more.

Thanks for an interesting topic. I'm really enjoying it, and always open and eager to learn. Thanks again.

Casper_Zip