Thanks to you guys teaching me the Creighton Audette Method I have worked up 2 great loads with very minimal time and resources. Both 300wsm shooting 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 300yds with 185 bergers and 168 tsxs. Thanks again guys.
For my long range rifles I found that 400 yds makes an even bigger difference. Makes the sweet spots even more pronounced. I tried it after my 175SMKs and my 185 Beregrs shot all 8 shots witin 4 inches of each other.

Good for you. Actually it is the "never improved upon" Creighton Audette Load Development Method.

Just pass the word along to other folks as they need help.

Best of luck to you.

HC,
I passed it on to some of my buddies and they all looked at me like I was crazy. "You have to shoot at least 3 shot groups to know anything!" So, at least I like the way it works. Funny how people just can't learn a "better" way no matter how you explain it.

I do understand.

Once I locate the Harmonic Nodes, then I might use 3, 5, 9, 15 or more shots to really Verify the Load is consistent. Once I know that, then I prefer Cumulative 1-shot Groups on a single Target to see what the initial shot from a cold, pristine clean barrel will do.

But, there are lots of good ways. Now that you have planted the seed in your buddies minds, you just never know when one (or more) of them may ask you more about it.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

HC,
So after the initial CAM, what is your most efficient way to test those "nodes"? How much time between shots? Run any patches? Be as thorough as you want explaining it please. Thanks.

Good questions that the answers would vary considerably from Reloader to Reloader. As long as it is Safe, a person should do it how they want.

As for me, I normally start the Harmonic Node Verification with 3-shot groups with a clean target for each group. That way you can stack the Targets(if made from regular paper), and with a bright light behind them, see if the Point-of-Impact shifts. I start with a pristine clean barrel, fire a shot, measure the Case for CHE & PRE, chamber abother cartridge and repeat for those 3-shots. Might take 2min between shots. But, I'm in no hurry at all on Verification or Load Development.

When those 3 are complete, I clean the barrel. This seems to frustrate a lot of folks because they somehow have the impression you never need to clean a barrel, or rarely clean a barrel. But, I want the Bore Conditions as nearly alike as possible between groups. And the only way I know to accomplish that is by having a pristine clean Bore to start with.

This brings up the discussion about POI "shift" and needing Fouling shots. For whatever reason, the rifles I have do not exhibit this characteristic. I've put a lot of thought into it and do not know why that is so. I do believe the folks who say their first shots from a clean barrel are not in the same group as when their barrel is fouled. But mine are not and I am happy about it.

Once I feel sure I centered the Harmonic(+/-0.Xgr of Powder), then I typically go to the Cumulative 1-shot groups, with each shot coming from a pristine clean Bore. It is the way I Hunt, so that is the shot that concerns me the most.
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Occasionally I will shoot some groups whith a higher total count. Every few years I rerun a Blind Comparison test between Neck Sized Cases and P-FLRed Cases. I might use anywhere from 15<->20 Cases for each. If I know for sure I goofed-up a shot and caused a Flier then I down-count both groups by that many shots.

But, a lot of my shooting is off to the side of the Bench, from normal shooting positions using a Sling in the Hasty maner. Shooting at a Soda Pop can at any distance desired is a lot of fun.

But, you should do your Testing and Verification the way you want to do it. Pick the parts you like or that make sense to you and use them. I just like what I do because it works well for me and I've done it this way a long time. That does not mean that everyone should do it the same way.

Best of luck to you.

THanks HC. That is why I ask, cause it makes more sense for me to learn from cumulative experience then experiment with everything that has already been done.

I don't have a "first shot" target that I save. I just try to hit the bullseye. I guess I should start one. I guess that leads to the next question. Should I clean the gun the exact same way every time?

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I don't have a "first shot" target that I save. I just try to hit the bullseye. I guess I should start one.

I've saved my Targets (8.5"x11" home made, and duplicated for a few cents each at the Office Supply stores) in 3-ring binders for a lot of years. That way I can sit down when it is bad outside and plan what kind of Testing I want to do next. Everything important about the specific rifle and the previously Tested Loads is right in front of me.

I look over what has been shot, pull out a Load Data Sheet and make some notes on it as to what I might want to re-test or try new. I'm sure there are other ways that work just as well, but this is what I'm used to.

quote:

Should I clean the gun the exact same way every time?

I try my best to do just that. And I also lightly Lube the Bore after cleaning with a bit of Moly Grease on a snug Paper Patch. Then follow it with another clean Paper Patch to remove any excess.

But, you should do it the way you think is best for you. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of folks who frown on having a "Clean" Barrel.

quote:

quote:
Should I clean the gun the exact same way every time?

I try my best to do just that. And I also lightly Lube the Bore after cleaning with a bit of Moly Grease on a snug Paper Patch. Then follow it with another clean Paper Patch to remove any excess.

But, you should do it the way you think is best for you. As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of folks who frown on having a "Clean" Barrel.

Actually I'm one of them....I'd prefer to clean the barrel at the range and then fire a couple fouling shots and then take the gun home.

In this manner it's ready to go any time I take it from the cabinet.

Vapo,
I see your point and know a ton of people that adhere to that logic, but if your gun's POI was the same on a first shot out of a clean barrel would you still fire foulers?