Hello, Loaded some 140 Sierra SPTs for my bro-in-laws 708 the other night and when setting my sights on what the OAL should be I noticed that there were land marks on the bullet when the OAL was at 2.780", checked my Sierra info again, sure enough, 2.780", so I seated them another .010" deeper, still land marks on the bullet and some had a bit of boltdrag, also. Again, I seated them in another .008", not as much boltdrag and when I smoked the bullet just a bit of lands were showing. I settled on 2.762" for an OAL, 42grs. 760, should be a tackdriver being so close to the lands.

But I'm thinking why does this rifle have such a short throat especially when my 700 708 is about as perfect as you can get it, I can't even think about closing the bolt on this Mtn. rifle when trying to chamber (my) 120 Hornady HPs set at 2.770". This is .010" off the lands in my 708.

Is this normal for a 700 rifle chambered in 708 to have such a short throat, overly short in my book? Does anyone think the reamer was wore out when Remington chambered this rifle? Give me your thoughts. Jay

Why this is so I'll bet even Remington doesn't know, but we do; sloppy work and lack of quality control.

The cheap fix would be to try a bullet from another manufacturer, or a flat base (read shorter) bullet. A few cranks with a reamer will fix this too. If you take it a step further (as much as the magazine will allow) you will be rewarded with extra powder capacity.

It is a LOT more common to run into factory chambers with long throats. In fact, yours is about the first factory chamber I have heard of with a shorter than expected throat. I had begun to wonder whether they actually existed, it seemed factories were intentionally cutting throats long (probably are to some extent to avoid pressure problems).

If you do decide to change the chamber, then be sure you (or your smith) only uses a throating reamer to correct the problem. If you used a regular reamer, you'd have to adjust the headspace on your rifle as well (setting back the barrel etc). But the condition is easily rectified, as buckshot mentioned above. If it was my rifle, and if I could make the short chamber work with the bullets I wanted to use, I would personally leave well enough alone. The performance advantage of loading out bullets is a controversial issue. As it is, you have got plenty of space to chase receding lands as the barrel gets older, without getting in conflict with your mag box length.
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
...Is this normal for a 700 rifle chambered in 708 to have such a short throat, overly short in my book?

Hey Jay, Before I get started, let me toss in my normal(Sermon mode - ON), "It is ALWAYS a bad idea to load cartridges for someone else. It is ALWAYS a good idea to invite them over and show them how to do it and let them load their own."(Sermon mode - OFF)

I've not tried any of the 140gr Sierras in my 7mm-08 M7, so I can't comment on them.

But, it does appear your bro-in-law has managed to get a rifle that is extremely well suited for the current "Super Sleek" bullet fad. Any of the Plastic Tip bullets would probably work extremely well with that throat.

Or you might want to try either of the 130gr Speer bullets; the Hot-Cor Flat Base or the non-Hot-Cor BTSP. For what it is worth, I've found either of those bullets about perfect for the 7mm-08 and Deer. I use H414 in mine, but it likes about any Powder at all. That doesn't mean the Sierra is a bad chioce though.

quote:

Does anyone think the reamer was wore out when Remington chambered this rifle?

No. Sounds like a normal manufacturing variance to me. But, it could be they made a change so the Super Sleeks can be Seated closer to the Lands and still fit in the short magazine.

Jay-

Myself, I'd much rather have that rifle than the typical, excessively long throated factory barrel.

You're talking what, .018" ? Would you rather have it to where you had to jump that much (or more), after seating to the max length that would fit in the magazine?

As for a worn out reamer, I highly doubt that the only wear would be at the front of the throat. Much more typical would be wear all around, in diameter rather than length. If a case chambers normally, you don't have a worn out reamer.

As someone else mentioned, try a different bullet. OAL means nothing except what will fit in the magazine. Length to the point on the ogive that first engages the rifling however will tell you where you are in relationship to the lands. By smoking it, that's what you're doing anyway. A long skinny bullet vs a fat blunt bullet will hit the lands at different points with the same OAL.

I'd find a good load that fits and shoots well, and consider that throat a bonus.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Jay, Before I get started, let me toss in my normal(Sermon mode - ON), "It is ALWAYS a bad idea to load cartridges for someone else. It is ALWAYS a good idea to invite them over and show them how to do it and let them load their own."(Sermon mode - OFF)

I've not tried any of the 140gr Sierras in my 7mm-08 M7, so I can't comment on them.

But, it does appear your bro-in-law has managed to get a rifle that is extremely well suited for the current "Super Sleek" bullet fad. Any of the Plastic Tip bullets would probably work extremely well with that throat.

Or you might want to try either of the 130gr Speer bullets; the Hot-Cor Flat Base or the non-Hot-Cor BTSP. For what it is worth, I've found either of those bullets about perfect for the 7mm-08 and Deer. I use H414 in mine, but it likes about any Powder at all. That doesn't mean the Sierra is a bad chioce though.



HC, I've been reloading for Dale since I sold him my Savage 708, this rifle has an extremely long throat and excessive headspace and can't be fired with factory ammo without flattening primers and sticking bolts, so I need to load soft for this rifle, bolt sticks with just 43grs. 760 and the 140 Sierras, 42 seems to work fine. This rifle is from the old Savage and the current Savage people won't even look at it anymore. When I first noticed this problem back when I lived in Vegas I had taken it back to my dealer twice, and he said he sent it back twice, The then Savage folks said the rifle was in spec, I don't believe the dealer ever sent the rifle back to them, so I always loaded soft for the rifle, 41grs. 760 with 150BTs, 2300fps avg velocity, but it made an in- stant kill on a young buck at 110 paces with this load. When I showed the rifle to Dale, he really liked the way it looked, I had refinished the stock with teakwood oil. SOLD!

He's happy with the 140 Sierras, so thats what I keep loading for him, nephew killed a nice 8 poiner with the Savage last year.

Now since he got this new Mtn. rifle he wanted me to make a load that would fit in both rifles in case one of them ran out of ammo in the woods(long story), so I load all the ammo to fit the Rem. and Savage, this means FL sizing the cases, and hopefully he won't have any problems when he shoots these new loads in the Savage, though when I loaded for the Savage in the first place I used new brass and he didn't have any, so he shouldn't have any again. Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
... When I showed the rifle to Dale, he really liked the way it looked, I had refinished the stock with teakwood oil. SOLD!

Some of those old Savages have some really nice Birch or Beech wood on them. Normally hidden by that stuff they used to use which looked like dried chocolate milk. Good for you that you realized what it "could be".

quote:

He's happy with the 140 Sierras, so thats what I keep loading for him, nephew killed a nice 8 poiner with the Savage last year.

Hard to argue with success.

quote:

...he wanted me to make a load that would fit in both rifles in case one of them ran out of ammo in the woods(long story), ...

I can hear the fierce battle right now!

I did hear a guy shoot 19 times one morning in about 30min. He and his buddies were on a piece of property which adjoined where I happened to be and I saw their truck lights as they got there before sunrise.

About two hours after sunrise he had a herd of Doe crossing back and forth in front of him at about 30yds. He would totally un-load on them each pass with a semi-auto 30-06. They would reach a dirt road, apparently smell where he(or they) had walked in the woods and turn back. Then when the herd went past him they would run into a Man Drive headed toward his position and the herd would turn again.

Final count - 1 slightly "nicked" Doe which they did not recover which they told me about as I walked out around noon.

I went back to the Shed area and the Plantation Foreman where I was hunting kept walking up to me and turning around and walking off behind a shed. Then he would head back and finally asked, "What in the world were you shooting at?!?!?!".

I told him what happened and he said they had asked him if they could hunt his land(where I was) the week before and he had told them no and sent them to a neighbor. Lots of comments over dinner from him about if he had 'only" known what great hunters they were, he would have sent them in right on top of me.

HC, My wife happens to be in N. Carolina as we speak, western part, I believe. To see an opera with her best friend and husband. If you happen to see her, tell her suppers gettin' cold.

Boy I'm glad Dale isn't one of those kind of knuckleheads that would empty his rifle out on a herd of does like that, he's got a good head on his shoulders. I don't think he's aware of how 2 different rifles can be so different as far as chamber dimensions, but once I filled him in, I know he understands, he's a machinist, he knows. Don't think he'll have any problems with the Remington, really curious as to how the thing will shoot, told him about letting the barrel cool between shots, damn skinny barrels heat up fast, even my 700 S/S heats up in weather like this after 2 shots. I'm guessing it'll shoot around 3/4" for 3 shots. We'll see. Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
HC, My wife happens to be in N. Carolina as we speak, western part, I believe. To see an opera with her best friend and husband. If you happen to see her, tell her suppers gettin' cold.

Hey Jay, Sounds like the Asheville area or right close by. Asheville has a whole lot of the "Artsy" folks with Crafts, Painting, Weaving, Music, Play-acting, etc.

They even have a right nice place called the "Biltmore House" that she might want you to build one similar for her. Ask her to bring a picture of it back home to show you. As a side note, the fellow that built the house is the same guy that originally imported and turned loose the beginnings of the Russian Boars that still roam the Smokey Mountains.

Asheville also has one of the finest most dedicated hard working RMEF Chapters in existance. When the Charlotte Chapter was first getting on it's feet, they would even send a bunch of folks down just to help in any way they could and get in on every raffle and auction. Great group of folks.

quote:

Boy I'm glad Dale isn't one of those kind of knuckleheads that would empty his rifle out on a herd of does like that, he's got a good head on his shoulders. I don't think he's aware of how 2 different rifles can be so different as far as chamber dimensions, but once I filled him in, I know he understands, he's a machinist, he knows. Don't think he'll have any problems with the Remington, really curious as to how the thing will shoot, told him about letting the barrel cool between shots, damn skinny barrels heat up fast, even my 700 S/S heats up in weather like this after 2 shots. I'm guessing it'll shoot around 3/4" for 3 shots. We'll see. Jay

I agree that the guys that "believe" in copious amounts of fire-power do make me cringe. They really just don't understand and have not been taught well.

I hear you about the barrel heat. Most of mine are really thin, so I plan a lot of time at the Range when I go. Always nice to have a few rifles and for me a good old 22LR bolt action along.

Best of luck to both you and the bro-in-law. And be sure to tell us how well you all do this coming Season.

HC, Just got off the phone with the wife, said she's in Bavard, close to Asheville, course you know that.

I really don't hunt anymore, just shoot paper and once in awhile water-filled milkjugs, actually like shooting the milkjugs over deer. I load for alot guys, now. (They) got alot of game last year, to include 4 elk, about a dozen deer, that makes me happy when my reloads help knock a deer or elk down for someone else. And I like it when I can save someone some money over the factory stuff, buck a shot or more, thats total nonsence.
Jay